Good & Bad About Fats - What Do You Know?

[xcelbeyond]

Nutrition is a topic that interests me a lot. There was a post that got me thinking about this topic: http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9900

With the advent of Atkins Diet, many people are into the high protein - high fat/low carb thing.

We've been eating most fats long before heart disease and cancer was prevelant. I'm a strong believer that it's the artificial fats (the one's that everyone told you were good for you - like margarine or mayo) such as hydrogenated or partially hydrogenated (trans fats) - are the ones doing the damage - and they're in A TON of stuff we eat.

My wife's grandparents were pretty well off, they HARDLY EVER went out to eat - like once or every other week. They moved from a midwest farm to out west and started a very profitable business. She cooked all their meals. But, they ate a TON of saturated fats. They both died from heart problems in their 60's. Now I don't consider that "old" at all - esp considering their "good" lifestyle.

I do believe that too much saturated fat is not good. And Atkins doesn't distinguish between the different types of fats - it just categorizes all fats into one group. To me, that's saying all carbs are the same. Well, there's a HUGE difference between brown sugar and brown rice!

I think there are good fats. Because fat is so calorie-dense, it's easy to take in more than you can utilize (hence adds to fat problem - more from too many calories than the fat itself).

You want to be concerned about "fat" for other reasons. Read this and understand it: http://www.qfac.com/articles/dioxins.html . THERE'S NO WAY FOR YOUR BODY TO GET RID OF THIS!!!!! This is NOT like so many bad things that cause "free-radical" damage, which there are plenty of good anti-oxidants that will take care of this. I've been told about dioxins before, but after reading about it THIS TIME (AGAIN), it really hit home.

Hopefully we'll get some good feedback going here

 

[Frusciante]

Interesting stuff...I'm going to look into this further.

I'm also going to stop microwaving my food (heating my meals up) in my plastic containers.

 

[REA]

Interesting stuff...I'm going to look into this further.

I'm also going to stop microwaving my food (heating my meals up) in my plastic containers.

Ditto

 

[TooPowerful4u]

Ditto

Rea why do i have a feeling you dont have to worry about dioxins and prolly hvae the lowest levels on this board. I dont wanna think about how much i have, i even use a microwave for my oatmeal lol.

 

[xcelbeyond]

Interesting stuff...I'm going to look into this further.

I'm also going to stop microwaving my food (heating my meals up) in my plastic containers.

Try and get you hands on a video called Blue Vinyl. While being a HUGE expose on the vinyl industry (throughout the world), it's VERY entertaining!

We have Dollar Tree stores in my neck of the woods - nothing is over $1. I bought a couple of med sized ceramic (not sure what they're made of - glass-like material) bowls and keep one at work.

I'm not real clear why "microwaving" is a problem Other than if the inside is plastic, it'll release dioxinxs during use. The one microwave we have at work is all metal - inside and out. When we bought it (all employees chiped in for it), it was less than $100 at Costco!! When my microwave goes out, I'm gonna look for one like this.

 

[moose]

Well..Here is a little chemistry behind saturated vs. unsaturated fats. Not that hard to understand. Here we go. First of all, obviously saturated fats are the worst ones. Why you may ask? Because saturated fats have a molecular structure with only one double bond, which is often why they are called monosaturated (meaning one). In chemistry terms 1 double bond in a molecular structure means that it is hard to "bend". What does this mean? It means that when saturated fats are taken into the body, they "stick" in your system due to the rigidity of their structure. In other words, they get easily "hung up" and will not flow easily out of ones body, hence, fat gain.

Next, there are unsaturated, or polyunsaturated fats (meaning many double bonds in the molecular structure). Many double bonds mean that the molecule can easily bend or "rearrange". So...these fats are less harmful because they don't get caught in ones system as easily due to the fact that they can bend/wind around allowing them to maneuver themselves through the body without getting stopped or "stuck" as I call it, eventually to be excreted.

A real life application of this (which I'm sure alot of poeple already know) is the purpose of cooking with olive oil, as it is a good unsaturated fat. The list goes on and on. I'll stop rambling.

 

[Frusciante]

I'm not real clear why "microwaving" is a problem Other than if the inside is plastic, it'll release dioxinxs during use. The one microwave we have at work is all metal - inside and out. When we bought it (all employees chiped in for it), it was less than $100 at Costco!! When my microwave goes out, I'm gonna look for one like this.

I can understand why, The issue is more of the containers being used while doing your microwaving being the major problem. If the container reaches temps near its own melting limits (mainly plastics), it will release dioxins into the food that its hosting. The article may be a bit extreme in that it instills great amounts of fear within the reader. ie DONT EVER USE THE MICROWAVE or even drink milk etc. If used sensibly it should be fine. I do have containers from the dollar store I use to carry my 6 meals around with me in a day. The ones I've used for a while are pot marked from slight burning (melting). So yes, they are a bad idea to use lol Actuallly I prefer my food cooked....but cold when eaten anyhow.

Although, now you've got me wondering about the plastic walls inside the microwave. We had to toss a microwave way back because the paint on the walls inside began to flake and lift away from the surface. It was metal in that case, but I doubt theres any regulations whether plastic or metal is used inside. Hmm

Most people don't understand the dangers of vit. A D E K being fat soluable. Dioxins are fat soluable and clearly deadly! There my be a big connection with the increase of cancers and infertility issues in our society because of dioxins. I don't doubt that. (I'm also a cancer survivor...Docs said the leading cause of mine was from the environment vs any hereditary possiblilities)

So... with them being fat soluable, perhaps people cutting down to 3% BF for a show at least once in their life might be healthier than we all thought huh lol?

See that guys face from the Ukrane or whereever it is? That president in the news for the past few weeks that was poisioned with dioxins? Its certainly gene altering.

 

[RicPhoenix]

Hi everyone,

I have not read the article carefully. However I suggest that if there is no peer reviewed research to support the claims its very difficult to suggest they are real in a scientific discussion....ie...its emotion.

Also, the first lesson of toxicology or food microbiology is: The dose makes the poison. So it would be the quantitiy of any type of compound ingested that will determine if its harmful. Many times we build up compound over our life span with no effect because while your body may not do away with them...it can neutralise them rendering them inactive.

 

[xcelbeyond]

Hi everyone,

I have not read the article carefully. However I suggest that if there is no peer reviewed research to support the claims its very difficult to suggest they are real in a scientific discussion....ie...its emotion.

This is based on science. I posted this article because it is written in simple layman's terms (a bodybuilding website!).

The reason you don't hear about this is tha BIG MONEY is behind this - All plastics and paper industry. The effects are known - watch the video Blue Vinyl as it points out how the plastics industry has avoided this issue. Plastics workers used to not wear respirators - almost all of them from that era have died from cancer. They now wear respirators, but when in high-exposure environments, it can be absorbed through the skin - but they (industry) are not concerned yet. Still, many workers getting cancer.

We've all heard about don't burn any plastics but nobody really explains the "why." It's kinda like back in the 50's/60's when everyone smoked cigarettes and most people knew it was "bad" for you but not enough to really evaluate the cause/result.

 

[RicPhoenix]

Perhaps you are right....I tend to think many things may be "real" regardless of their being investigated.

I do not doubt that poisonus compounds are formed when plastic is created or burned at an industrial site. This is the case in manufacturing almost anything due to the large scale of the production. Also, the people working daily in that environment would be getting a large dose of these toxins regularly (the dose makes the poison).

However to suggest that a person not drink from a plastic cup or use a microwave should have more basis before the claim is made...its a big jump from working in a factory with plastics to saying ..lets not eat from them.

Maybe if someone (or myself) gets a chance to do a search and post the references on home usage or plastics and toxins it would be great.

 

[xcelbeyond]

A real life application of this (which I'm sure alot of poeple already know) is the purpose of cooking with olive oil, as it is a good unsaturated fat. The list goes on and on. I'll stop rambling.

I thought (don't really know for sure) that olive and peanut oils are considered monosaturated fats (yet "healthy" fats).

 

[Ethan James]

Especially avoid the chlorophenol weed killers, such as 2,4-D, found in most fertilizer/weed killers and used by commercial lawn services.

Umm.. is that like 2,4-Dinitrophenol...

 

[xcelbeyond]

Maybe if someone (or myself) gets a chance to do a search and post the references on home usage or plastics and toxins it would be great.

I can bet good money on what you'll find if it's research done by plastics industry

Here's the way I look at it - in simple terms. Dioxin builds up in your system - not sure that it disipates very readily if at all. You can get "some" from brakdown of plastics in your food (from microwaving), from the air you breathe, from the food you eat, from the water you drink. It's all "additive" not from just one source. I'm sure like anything else, certain people have a higher tolerance than others, who can be super sensitive to it.

 

[xcelbeyond]

Umm.. is that like 2,4-Dinitrophenol...

I believe the article stated to stay from things that started with "chlor" not ending with "phenol"

Like the bad plastic is PVC - poly vinyl chloride

 

[moose]

I thought (don't really know for sure) that olive and peanut oils are considered monosaturated fats (yet "healthy" fats).

Xcel, you are right too..I believe BOTH types of fat are present in olive oil, could be wrong though?

 

[xcelbeyond]

shameless bump

Anyone else?

 

[Frusciante]

xcel

I spoke to Chemical engineer about this. He had tons to say. When he returns to work after the holidays, he's going to email me all kinds of info. Everything from political/corporate views to MSDS sheets explaining things to avoid lol. Anyway. some of it might be helpful or of interest, I'll send it your why when I get a hold of it.

You always bring to light interesting topics

 

[BigBoyJ]

I just think it's strange how everything we do in our modern "convenience" lifestyle is killing us, yet we are all living longer than ever. I don't know, to me it seems that people are making things a little more dramatic than they need to be. Not to say it's not good to know about the possibilities of unhealthy practices, but it does seem they are generally severely exaggerated.

Another interesting point on fats. My dad eats the most horrible diet I've ever seen. He lives on fatty beef, bacon and lard. I'm serious, he puts pure lard in everything. He uses margarine like it's needed for life and the amount of sugar he eats is amazing. He went and had blood work done and his lipid levels were perfect, blood pressure was great and his CHOLESTEROL WAS 90!

I think once again, it comes down primarily to genetics.

 

[xcelbeyond]

I just think it's strange how everything we do in our modern "convenience" lifestyle is killing us, yet we are all living longer than ever. I don't know, to me it seems that people are making things a little more dramatic than they need to be. Not to say it's not good to know about the possibilities of unhealthy practices, but it does seem they are generally severely exaggerated.

You bring up a great point that I myself have recently pondered.

The mortality rate in the US around the turn of the 20th century (prior to real industrialization) was much higher (and at a lower age) than it is today. Do we really know why? Were people dying from causes like disease or sickness, which we have vaccines and medications for and never worry about these things? Or were they dying from cardio-related disease and cancer and nobody knew how to diagnose it? I really doubt it was the latter. This an issue that I'd like to see some research on.

There are too many people dying (these days) that are in their 40's (and younger!) - from heart disease and cancer. You can say it's coincidence or try and figure out what "can" cause it.

Like I said in my previous post, not "everyone" is as susesptible or sensistive to different exposure levels - your dad being a prime example. My point is that if we know dioxins are potentially life threatening, why would you NOT alter your lifestyle to avoid the "major" exposures? I guess my other point is that ignorance is bliss (as evidenced in out steroid laws)

 

[BigBoyJ]

I see what you're saying Xcel, it's always good to know if we're doing something potentially dangerous, but at the same time, everything in life these days can be considered dangerous. A person could stress himself into a heart attack just trying to figure it all out. I guess all I'm saying is, do what you can to be healthy, but don't make that goal an unhealthy habit.