got a qustion?

[fuckboy]

is front loading the same as stacking? if not can some 1 explane to me

 

[617ricky]

No, front loading is doing more of a substance initially, to try and create even levels while it's building up in your system.. For example, doing 500mg of Test E for the 1st 2 wks, and then bumping it down to 250mg per wk.

 

[klowndog]

No

Stacking= using more than one substance to get the effects of both. Example, a deca test stack simply means using deca and test simultaneously.

Frontloading= Using higher amounts of a drug during the first two weeks of a cycle, in order to speed up the activity of the drug in your body. Example, test e takes approx 2-3 weeks to take effect. By doubling the dose in the first two weeks, some believe that it helps to kickstart the activity in your body.

 

[EasyEJL]

The idea behind front loading is that longer ester products (whether testosterone, nandrolone, tren, etc) take time to build up to maximum level in bloodstream. For instance, with testosterone cypionate taken at 250mg 2x a week, you hit peak levels somewhere around the 2nd dose of week 3. You would front load with the same product in higher doses than you intend the cycle to be so that you hit the maximum levels faster, or you are using a shorter ester product like test suspension or test prop the first few weeks since they more or less immediately see their peaks.

You can look at this calculator

**broken link removed**

to see what dosing works out to. The calculator isn't perfect, as half life is affected by where you inject, and there are other details left out as well. but it gives a ballpark idea.

 

[fuckboy]

sweet i got my answer thanks alot guys

 

[drob29]

The idea behind front loading is that longer ester products (whether testosterone, nandrolone, tren, etc) take time to build up to maximum level in bloodstream. For instance, with testosterone cypionate taken at 250mg 2x a week, you hit peak levels somewhere around the 2nd dose of week 3. You would front load with the same product in higher doses than you intend the cycle to be so that you hit the maximum levels faster, or you are using a shorter ester product like test suspension or test prop the first few weeks since they more or less immediately see their peaks.
...........

This is a common misconception.

IMHO and from what I understand, frontloading is a waste of gear. Just becasue you double your dose, that has zero impact on it's ability to release into your body any quicker. This is especially true with longer estered compounds like cyp and E. "frontloading" really only spikes your levels when it does release which can increase sides, and has no positive effect on overall gains whatsoever.

I could be mistaken here, and thats a fairly basic explanation. If thats not the case I would like to know.

Thanks

 

[617ricky]

Well it may not necessarily have a beneficial effect on gains, but by front-loading a little bit, with something like Test E, instead of the levels slowly coming up over 2 wks, they should theoretically reach a steady level sooner, if done properly.

 

[drob29]

Well it may not necessarily have a beneficial effect on gains, but by front-loading a little bit, with something like Test E, instead of the levels slowly coming up over 2 wks, they should theoretically reach a steady level sooner, if done properly.

This makes no sense. How exactly does more test E make the ester release quicker?

Based on your theory, If I was going to run 500 mg per week of test E for a cycle, and I "frontloaded" with 1000 mg for the first 2 weeks, I would "reach a steady level sooner".

What I am saying is that the opposite is true, and in fact your levels will only spike in weeks 3-5 and will not reach a steady level until week (say) 6.

Actually now that I said it out loud, unless you have "magic ester release" as part of your cycle, no way frontloading will do anything other than just spike your test levels unneccessarily. So your wrong. Then again, with 577 posts in three months membership, "you must know what your talking about".

 

[EasyEJL]

This makes no sense. How exactly does more test E make the ester release quicker?

Based on your theory, If I was going to run 500 mg per week of test E for a cycle, and I "frontloaded" with 1000 mg for the first 2 weeks, I would "reach a steady level sooner".

What I am saying is that the opposite is true, and in fact your levels will only spike in weeks 3-5 and will not reach a steady level until week (say) 6.

Actually now that I said it out loud, unless you have "magic ester release" as part of your cycle, no way frontloading will do anything other than just spike your test levels unneccessarily. So your wrong. Then again, with 577 posts in three months membership, "you must know what your talking about".

Its simple math really. Call half life 5 days for test e . from a 250mg shot roughly you get 25mg per day in usable levels first 5 days, 12.5mg per day next 5, 6.25/day next 5. So by your 2nd shot at day 4 you'll have roughly 50mg a day worth circulating (actually its a slope, so its greatest injection day, then slowly goes down after that). In the end though since you have some additive amount all the way through to 3 weeks down the road, slightly boosting with a front load has you hitting your desired overall plasma levels sooner. Is there any real benefit to it? Hard to say. And by controlling how you front load you can control how high any spikes are too. Big difference between frontloading by doing 500mg each of the first 3 days and doing 500 first day then 250 on days 3 and 5, then normal dosing on day 8.

 

[drob29]

Its simple math really. Call half life 5 days for test e . from a 250mg shot roughly you get 25mg per day in usable levels first 5 days, 12.5mg per day next 5, 6.25/day next 5. So by your 2nd shot at day 4 you'll have roughly 50mg a day worth circulating (actually its a slope, so its greatest injection day, then slowly goes down after that). In the end though since you have some additive amount all the way through to 3 weeks down the road, slightly boosting with a front load has you hitting your desired overall plasma levels sooner. Is there any real benefit to it? Hard to say. And by controlling how you front load you can control how high any spikes are too. Big difference between frontloading by doing 500mg each of the first 3 days and doing 500 first day then 250 on days 3 and 5, then normal dosing on day 8.

Interesting......

Although I dont believe that on your second day of a test e cycle you have any usable test available other than what you had pre first shot.

possibly a mod can chime in? I think OTH had some good input on frontloading a while back.

I dont know, mabey I am wrong and I can learn something here. Ultimatley thats whats it's all about.

 

[EasyEJL]

Hmm I found this

Testosterone cypionate is a long acting, single ester testosterone product. It has a length of 8 carbons, and is stored mostly in the adipose tissue when injected intra-muscularly. It is slowly and steadily released in the body after it is injected. The blood levels of cypionate peak 24-48 hours after injection and then decline slowly. The blood levels reach a steady point 12 days after initial injection and stay there for over three weeks

Looking for a graph of it now.

When I was researching it at first, one of the things I realized is that with doing front loading you'd end up after the first or second week switching injection days to avoid that too high peak. I think when I first worked it out it was something like (for 500mg/wk on cyp)

day 1 500mg
day 3 250mg
day 6 250mg
wk 2
day 2 250mg
day 6 250mg
wk 3 day 3 + 7 become regular days at this point.

It was something close to that, I may be a day off on one of those. But that compared to just doing the cyp day 3 + 7 the whole time reaches the same plasma levels (but not significantly higher) during the middle of week 2, vs the day 3/7 taking till after week 3

In the long run, effective difference is 0 tho Because basically that extra weeks worth up front could be used at the end, and for the same total amount of test used you basically would end up with the same gains. this would just potentially shorten the cycle by a week and who cares when you are talking about 12-16 weeks anyhow

 

[notsobig32]

This makes no sense. How exactly does more test E make the ester release quicker?

Based on your theory, If I was going to run 500 mg per week of test E for a cycle, and I "frontloaded" with 1000 mg for the first 2 weeks, I would "reach a steady level sooner".

What I am saying is that the opposite is true, and in fact your levels will only spike in weeks 3-5 and will not reach a steady level until week (say) 6.

Actually now that I said it out loud, unless you have "magic ester release" as part of your cycle, no way frontloading will do anything other than just spike your test levels unneccessarily. So your wrong. Then again, with 577 posts in three months membership, "you must know what your talking about".

it doesn't make the ester release quicker. if something has a half-life of two weeks and you chart it out with time being the long axis, and then you chart free test levels as the vertical axis, you get a better idea of what this is.

If you start at 250 mg on day 1 and by day 3 you have increased your free test levels to 25mg or so.......if you took 750mg on day 1 your free test levels would be closer tyo 75mg. The theory is you are just sliding up the vertical axis of the chart and by tapering off the frontload you stabilize at the same plasma levels.

It bothers me that i used to spend this much time thinking about gear useage and planning a cycle instead of eating and training. I guess it is good for answering questions.

Honestly, and i am by no means a pro or a mod, just pick your doseage, divide it up evenly, make sure you are taking in plenty of calories and train hard. In the long run, does reaching peak plasma levels x days earlier get you bigger or get you closer to your goals....not really

 

[drob29]

Hmm I found this



Looking for a graph of it now.

When I was researching it at first, one of the things I realized is that with doing front loading you'd end up after the first or second week switching injection days to avoid that too high peak. I think when I first worked it out it was something like (for 500mg/wk on cyp)

day 1 500mg
day 3 250mg
day 6 250mg
wk 2
day 2 250mg
day 6 250mg
wk 3 day 3 + 7 become regular days at this point.

It was something close to that, I may be a day off on one of those. But that compared to just doing the cyp day 3 + 7 the whole time reaches the same plasma levels (but not significantly higher) during the middle of week 2, vs the day 3/7 taking till after week 3

In the long run, effective difference is 0 tho Because basically that extra weeks worth up front could be used at the end, and for the same total amount of test used you basically would end up with the same gains. this would just potentially shorten the cycle by a week and who cares when you are talking about 12-16 weeks anyhow

it doesn't make the ester release quicker. if something has a half-life of two weeks and you chart it out with time being the long axis, and then you chart free test levels as the vertical axis, you get a better idea of what this is.

If you start at 250 mg on day 1 and by day 3 you have increased your free test levels to 25mg or so.......if you took 750mg on day 1 your free test levels would be closer tyo 75mg. The theory is you are just sliding up the vertical axis of the chart and by tapering off the frontload you stabilize at the same plasma levels.

It bothers me that i used to spend this much time thinking about gear useage and planning a cycle instead of eating and training. I guess it is good for answering questions.

Honestly, and i am by no means a pro or a mod, just pick your doseage, divide it up evenly, make sure you are taking in plenty of calories and train hard. In the long run, does reaching peak plasma levels x days earlier get you bigger or get you closer to your goals....not really

very good info here, thank you guys. Notsobig, funny comment about thinking too much and not eating and training. Its the truth!

Any one else?

 

[cpesloco]

To me front loading would be done with a shorter ester. Example you can front load Sust because it has multiple esters and by a week and a half everything is doing it's job up front.

Same theory as adding 4 weeks D-bol to the beginning of your cycle until the long esters kick in.

OJ on alinboard explained all of this in detail on a thread.

 

[drob29]

To me front loading would be done with a shorter ester. Example you can front load Sust because it has multiple esters and by a week and a half everything is doing it's job up front.

Same theory as adding 4 weeks D-bol to the beginning of your cycle until the long esters kick in.

OJ on alinboard explained all of this in detail on a thread.

post the link!

 

[617ricky]

This makes no sense. How exactly does more test E make the ester release quicker?

It actually makes perfect sense. And it has nothing at all to do with "making the ester release quicker".

Based on your theory, If I was going to run 500 mg per week of test E for a cycle, and I "frontloaded" with 1000 mg for the first 2 weeks, I would "reach a steady level sooner".

What I am saying is that the opposite is true, and in fact your levels will only spike in weeks 3-5 and will not reach a steady level until week (say) 6.

No, that is not true at all, and it makes no sense.

Actually now that I said it out loud, unless you have "magic ester release" as part of your cycle, no way frontloading will do anything other than just spike your test levels unneccessarily. So your wrong.

No, it's you that's wrong here. Apparently you don't fully understand the mechanics of how an ester breaks down. Test E is active for ~10 days, and takes 2-3 wks to reach a steady level. So in those first 2 wks, your levels are slowly climbing up to their peak. If however, you double the dose those first 2 wks, they start out higher to begin with, and they will reach the peak much more quickly. So when you go down to your normal dosage, you have now had more even levels, instead of the slow ascent.

Then again, with 577 posts in three months membership, "you must know what your talking about".

Yea, I guess I do.

.

 

[maldorf]

Running short esters is the easiest way to start things up faster. Yes, loading up on more of a long ester drug will make you hit higher levels faster. You can frontload with a long ester and be feeling it within 3 days or so if you do enough. Of course this is more risky and you have more dangers involved when messing with high doses. IMO the risk isnt worth frontloading with long esters because you can get your levels way too high and then you feel like shit and the sides are terrible. If you want to kick start things, using short esters is much safer.
Since this is the beginners forum, I am surprised anyone here is even worried about frontloading. It is for the advanced user only really since you have to know how your body handles certain doses before you go trying this out. There can be significant health risks involved.

 

[notsobig32]

Running short esters is the easiest way to start things up faster. Yes, loading up on more of a long ester drug will make you hit higher levels faster. You can frontload with a long ester and be feeling it within 3 days or so if you do enough. Of course this is more risky and you have more dangers involved when messing with high doses. IMO the risk isnt worth frontloading with long esters because you can get your levels way too high and then you feel like shit and the sides are terrible. If you want to kick start things, using short esters is much safer.
Since this is the beginners forum, I am surprised anyone here is even worried about frontloading. It is for the advanced user only really since you have to know how your body handles certain doses before you go trying this out. There can be significant health risks involved.

^^^^^^^x2

it ahs been said time and again on this board, don't overcomplicate your aas useage. What looks good on paper isn't always as good in the real world as you might think

My lab rat just takes what he is going to take, divides it up evenly throughout the week and goes about his business of eating and training.

 

[617ricky]

I'm going the short ester route myself.. My cycle is gonna be roughly 550mg Test and 400mg Deca per wk.. But I grabbed a bottle of Prop as well.. What I'm gonna do is run 50mg Prop EOD for the 1st week and a half, in addition to the Test E and Deca.. Then the last 2 wks of the cycle I'm dropping the Test E and Deca, and I'm gonna run just the Prop.. It's gonna be a slightly tapered dose, and I'll be able to start PCT just a few days after my last shot.

 

[bigpaparn]

No, front loading is doing more of a substance initially, to try and create even levels while it's building up in your system.. For example, doing 500mg of Test E for the 1st 2 wks, and then bumping it down to 250mg per wk.

is this recommended?