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Got Mid-Cycle labs back - High Cholesterol

orangejuice07

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Mar 22, 2010
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I am 6 weeks in on my cycle (Test C 500mg/wk, 50mg Dbol/ed 1st 4 weeks) and i got my labs done a couple days ago, just got the results back and everything is in check except for my cholesterol. 21 yo, 5'11" 245lbs. Diet is pretty steady. Oatmeal and eggs for breakfast, chicken breast for lunch, pork chops or chicken for supper. I do fasted cardio 5X a week and workout 5x a week. Here are the results:

Lipid Profile:

Triglycerides 80 Range: 0-199

Cholesterol 246 Desirable <200
Borderline High 200-239
High: >240

dHDL 36 Range: 40-59
High-Desirable: >60

LDL 194 Range: 0-130
Optimal: <100
Borderline High: 130-159
High: 160-189
Very High: >190

LDL-HDL Ratio 5 Range 2.0-3.

What you guys think? I know being on will raise my cholesterol and all Doc said was to watch my diet and re-test in 4 months. Any thoughts? Any ways to lower this while on?

Supps:

Breakfast:
Creatine 5g
Fish Oil 900mg
Milk Thistle 200mg
Flax Seed Oil 2000mg
BCAA's 500mg
L-Glutamine 1000mg
Alpha Lipoic Acid 600mg
L-Carnitine 500mg
Vitamin C 1000mg

Lunch:
BCAA's 500mg
Flax Seed Oil 2000mg
Fish Oil 900mg
L-Glutamine 1000mg
Milk Thistle 200mg

Am I taking too many supps?
 

mountaindog1

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I am 6 weeks in on my cycle (Test C 500mg/wk, 50mg Dbol/ed 1st 4 weeks) and i got my labs done a couple days ago, just got the results back and everything is in check except for my cholesterol. 21 yo, 5'11" 245lbs. Diet is pretty steady. Oatmeal and eggs for breakfast, chicken breast for lunch, pork chops or chicken for supper. I do fasted cardio 5X a week and workout 5x a week. Here are the results:

Lipid Profile:

Triglycerides 80 Range: 0-199

Cholesterol 246 Desirable <200
Borderline High 200-239
High: >240

dHDL 36 Range: 40-59
High-Desirable: >60

LDL 194 Range: 0-130
Optimal: <100
Borderline High: 130-159
High: 160-189
Very High: >190

LDL-HDL Ratio 5 Range 2.0-3.

What you guys think? I know being on will raise my cholesterol and all Doc said was to watch my diet and re-test in 4 months. Any thoughts? Any ways to lower this while on?

Supps:

Breakfast:
Creatine 5g
Fish Oil 900mg
Milk Thistle 200mg
Flax Seed Oil 2000mg
BCAA's 500mg
L-Glutamine 1000mg
Alpha Lipoic Acid 600mg
L-Carnitine 500mg
Vitamin C 1000mg

Lunch:
BCAA's 500mg
Flax Seed Oil 2000mg
Fish Oil 900mg
L-Glutamine 1000mg
Milk Thistle 200mg

Am I taking too many supps?


The supps are good supps except for the flax. Complete waste of money. Your body has to convert the Alpha Linolenic acid to DHA..your body does not do this well - stick with fish oil for Omega 3's.

Lowering sugar and taking GDA's with meals will give you quick results in terms of lowering total cholesterol (less inflammation to fight). If you want to buy a bunch of supps to try and help that's fine, but the right foods will make the most impact. Don't stop eating saturated fat and cholesterol by the way unless you want horrendous natural test levels...this will make a difference when you are clean. Also, get educated on cholesterol, it's good the large majority of the time - the strongest (with glutathione) antioxidant in your body. It is not the enemy - the enemy is usually refined sugars and hydrogenated fats...

JM
 

mountaindog1

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Yep - good article - see I wasn't making that up..hahah..

here is a pretty good site that has some useful info too you might enjoy - I refer to it often.

DHA/EPA Omega-3 Institute

Regards,
JM
 

Mr.Bungle

Banned
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Apr 5, 2007
Messages
222
Also I noticed you were taking D-bol, for me and many others orals hurt the cholesterol, both d-bol and cholesterol are processed in the liver. I doubt the 500mg of test had that much effect on the lipids, and to be honest I don't think the numbers were that much to worry about in the short term.
 

frankd

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Jan 19, 2009
Messages
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All of the following is my opinion, based on my readings/understanding/interpretation of research in this area.

Standard cholesterol testing conveys very little about heart disease risk. They use the Friedewald equation to calculate the value of LDL instead of directly measuring it. The equation is as follows:

LDL = Total Cholesterol - (HDL-C + Triglycerides/5).

While statistically this equation is adequate when applied to a large sample size it maybe inaccurate on an individual basis. That is, it can vary considerably by over or underestimating your actual LDL value. Especially if you have very high or low triglyceride levels. Another problem with standard cholesterol testing is that it does not differentiate between lipoprotein particle size. Small dense LDL particles (termed pattern B) are 3-5 times more athrogenic than large ones (termed pattern A). Small particles have an increased ability to penetrate the endothelium, they are more easily oxidized and preferentially glycated (modification of protein in the presence of glucose/fructose/etc.). These are all negative characteristics, which make particle size one of the critical factors in determining Cardiovascular Disease risk (along with lipoprotein(a),C-reactive protein, homocysteine, omega-3 status, vitamin D normalization, hormonal normalization, unhealthy vegetable oil intake (so many) etc.).

Another problem is that standard cholesterol testing can pick up large LDL particles and count them as more then one. Which further artificially inflates your LDL number. But again, LDL and HDL particle size are far more important in CVD risk. The only troubling thing about your cholesterol numbers from what limited information the testing provides you is that your HDL is low. As far as LDL is concerned, it is very difficult to say if your reading is even accurate or significant (given the lack of particle size differentiation). VAP (Vertical Auto Profile) and NMR (Nuclear Magnetic Resonance) testing are two ways to determine particle size and directly measure LDL (I believe they also measure Lp(a) as well). The problem is that due to your age, the expense of this testing, and the inane, archaic perception of cholesterol in general will almost guarantee that your doctor will not run these tests if you requested them. So, you would have to order them out of pocket from an online laboratory if you are interested/concerned.

An aside: Most likely the best way (in my opinion) to determine CVD risk is to have your M.D. perform a calcium score of your heart (CT scan that measures plauqe build-up). This is of no consequence to you because you are way too young for a cardiologist to even consider it but I wanted to share for any older guys that are interested.

For most small dense LDL particles are directly correlated with carbohydrate intake, especially refined carbohydrate intake (I want to stress that this does not apply to everyone, but research shows that a majority respond this way). Furthermore, if you have two parents which express the pattern B LDL phenotype it is almost guaranteed that you will respond this way. Additionally, I would think that higher levels of adiposity and poor insulin sensitivity would also be more likely to lead to the development of pattern B (without a genetic predisposition) but I do not recall if this is implicated in the research.

Commonly, pattern size can be predicted by HDL-C and Triglyceride levels. A person with high HDL-C and very low Triglycerides will almost always have predominately pattern A LDL particles (which is good because pattern A are less athrogenic and some believe cardio-protective but that I have not studied at all). This connection is seen because high carbohydrate intake is the primary generator of TAG and assuming that this same diet is also low (relatively) in fat would likely lead to the reduction of HDL levels as well. (Low TAG and High HDL-C is a predictive measure, not a direct measure. The only way to know for sure is to be tested).

If you are interested in learning more, you can go to pubmed and read some of the review articles published by Dr. Ronald M. Krauss on this topic (ironically he is a member of the AHA which is an organization that recommends dietary advice that is high in CHO and low in Fat). Further, Dr. Michael Eades and Dr. William Davis both cardiologists with online blogs are good sources of information (though I don't necessarily agree with all of it).

I want to state again that all of the above is my opinion based on my reading of research in the area and from the writings of the above professionals. I am not an expert nor claim to be one. I encourage you to review the information and research the sources to form your own opinion on the matter. I just wanted you to be aware of this viewpoint.

Lastly, I want to apologize for not answering your question at all. I hope this information at least helps in some way.
 

dc1

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Feb 27, 2009
Messages
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dbol is my culprit

Anytime I take dbol and get my blood tested, my tests come back with high cholesterol. Once I stop the dbol, even if I'm taking test and deca still, my tests will come back normal. This is just my experience though.
 

orangejuice07

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Mar 22, 2010
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Thanks for all the responses! Im gona stop taking the flax seed oil and alpa lipoic acid as Mountain Dog suggested and I guess I'll just continue on with my cycle as planned. I'll post up my blood work post cycle and then again a couple months after that to see if it has gone down. Thanks again everybody
 

goonstopher

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Thanks for all the responses! Im gona stop taking the flax seed oil and alpa lipoic acid as Mountain Dog suggested and I guess I'll just continue on with my cycle as planned. I'll post up my blood work post cycle and then again a couple months after that to see if it has gone down. Thanks again everybody
where did he sa stop taking alpha lipoic acid? He was talking about alpha linolenic acid
 

mountaindog1

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where did he sa stop taking alpha lipoic acid? He was talking about alpha linolenic acid
Exacly - don't stop taking Alpha LIPOIC acid!! It is one of the absolute best supps you can take for a variety of reasons..

JM
 

Carnivore

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All of the following is my opinion, based on my readings/understanding/interpretation of research in this area.

Standard cholesterol testing conveys very little about heart disease risk. They use the Friedewald equation to calculate the value of LDL instead of directly measuring it.
I have to second everything frankd posted - from what I've read, the standard HDL, calculated LDL test which most people get as part of their annual checkup is pretty useless, except for showing if HDL is low.

Niacin is another supplement that works to lower LDL and raise HDL. There were other threads here that go into detail about it.
 

orangejuice07

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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher
where did he sa stop taking alpha lipoic acid? He was talking about alpha linolenic acid

Exacly - don't stop taking Alpha LIPOIC acid!! It is one of the absolute best supps you can take for a variety of reasons..

JM

hahaha whoaa! guess I had a brain fart!
 

mountaindog1

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If you guys want some awesome information on cholesterol there is a post somewhere on here from bigguns078 that is awesome..I don;t have time to find it or I would..but it is one of the best summaries I have seen..

JM
 

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