Heavy Squats and Knee Pain

[BrooklynBB]

Lately I've been doing pretty heavy squats and about an hour or so after working out, I get intermittent pain just above the kneecap. Then a few more hours later, pain over the entire patella.

A day later, pain even when laying down. By the third day it's pretty much gone.

Anyone know what's going on here? I'm doing regular barbell squats, just free weights. Nothing fancy.

 

[Sesshomaru]

Hard to tell without more information.

Could be that youre going too heavy too often. Could be that youve made jumps that are too high. Could be overall volume is too high. Could be improper or insufficient warmup. Could be an imbalance (i.e. quads are too tight). Could be related to anything else youre doing outside of the gym. The list goes on...

Easiest thing to do would be to get some experienced hands on your knee to check the soft tissue for any inflammation, fascia, etc.

 

[SmellyHat]

Here you go, very usefull site, I spend hours studying when im trying to get better at my form, or improving stability. Full squat analysis below, sounds like you could benefit from an extra warm up set, some ankle flexibility. Lots of causes of what your having, best thing to do is decrease the frequency of heavy squats per week until you know for sure what is causing your knee pain.

**broken link removed**

 

[BrooklynBB]

Knee Pain

Could be that youve made jumps that are too high. Could be overall volume is too high.

I think you nailed it, I've definitely been going very heavy in a short period of time for the first time ever with squats. But what would be causing the pain then? Soft tissue not being able to compensate for the increased load? If so, can you explain this?

Thanks.

 

[Sesshomaru]

I think you nailed it, I've definitely been going very heavy in a short period of time for the first time ever with squats. But what would be causing the pain then? Soft tissue not being able to compensate for the increased load? If so, can you explain this?

Thanks.

When your muscles lift or do more work than they can handle, your muscles and tendons can sustain some damage on a cellular scale. If the increase in demand is made gradually, muscle and tendon tissues will usually heal, build in strength, and adapt to new loads.

Like muscles, if you do some activity that injures a tendon on a microscopic scale and then do more injury before the tendon heals, you will gradually accumulate these microinjuries. Unlike muscles, tendons take longer to recover so while the anabolics tell your muscle to go, your tendons are telling a different story. When enough injury accumulates, you'll feel pain. Since youre making fast jumps, this process speeds up.

Lactate actually strengthens the connective tissue which is why you'll typically see an accumulation phase precede an intensification phase, at least among strength athletes. In your case, if you havent progressed gradually either before your current intensity cycle or during, the result is pain.

You could ease things by getting some soft tissue work done on the knee and related areas to get some blood flow back in there and speed recovery. Backing of a bit in terms of intensity would be in order if this is the issue causing you pain. When you get back into the swing of things, focus on gradual progression to prevent unnecessary wear and tear.

 

[mike1107]

I had big problems on my right knee that made me suffer a lot when I was doing heavy squats
the worst pain was the day after
I had my massage therapist working on my quadriceps tendon, it helped a lot and now I don't feel no pain

some people say deep squat sucks for knees, some think it may help with knee problems

I wish we could see more opinion on this subject


but in my case, frequent low kick from muay thai gave me chronic pain , now it's gone and I squat heavy every week

 

[Jman88]

I have had this problem before...do 1 or 2 more warm up sets, or with your first warm-up go higher reps, ex. 135 but sink slowly down as low as you can to get that stretch.

Also, it helps me to put a menthol rub like icy hot on my knees before squatting and to keep my legs warm. I always squat in sweats with shorts underneath.

 

[bellicose]

you have patellar tendonitis.....research it and treat/rehab it accordingly

 

[Sesshomaru]

I had big problems on my right knee that made me suffer a lot when I was doing heavy squats
the worst pain was the day after
I had my massage therapist working on my quadriceps tendon, it helped a lot and now I don't feel no pain

Indeed. The major areas that people should look out for when experiencing knee pain during the squat are:

IT Band/TFL
Psoas Major
Piriformis
Rectus femoris
Adductors
Hamstrings
QL
Lumbar erectors

some people say deep squat sucks for knees, some think it may help with knee problems. I wish we could see more opinion on this subject

This is just one study, and I have another somewhere with other references but I have to find it later:

GJ Salem and CM Powers
Patellofemoral joint kinetics during squatting in collegiate women athletes.

Clin Biomech (Bristol, Avon), June 1, 2001; 16(5): 424-30.

OBJECTIVE: To characterize the biomechanics of the patellofemoral joint during squatting in collegiate women athletes. DESIGN: Repeated measures experimental design. BACKGROUND: Although squatting exercises are required components of most intercollegiate resistance-training programs and are commonly performed during rehabilitation, the effects of various squatting depths on patellofemoral joint stress have not been quantified. METHODS: Anthropometric data, three-dimensional knee kinematics, and ground reaction forces were used to calculate the knee extensor moment (inverse dynamics approach) in five intercollegiate female athletes during squatting exercise at three different depths (approximately 70 degrees, 90 degrees and 110 degrees of knee flexion). A biomechanical model of the patellofemoral joint was used to quantify the patellofemoral joint reaction force and patellofemoral joint stress during each trial. RESULTS: Peak knee extensor moment, patellofemoral joint reaction force and patellofemoral joint stress did not vary significantly between the three squatting trials. CONCLUSIONS: Squatting from 70 degrees to 110 degrees of knee flexion had little effect on patellofemoral joint kinetics. The relative constancy of the patellofemoral joint reaction force and joint stress appeared to be related to a consistent knee extensor moment produced across the three squatting depths. RELEVANCE: The results of this study do not support the premise that squatting to 110 degrees places greater stress on the patellofemoral joint than squatting to 70 degrees. These findings may have implications with respect to the safe design of athletic training regimens and rehabilitation programs.

 

[BrooklynBB]

Warming up - of course

I definitely warm up throughly, slowly and gradually - that's not the problem. It's what Sesshomaru wrote - too fast a progression in too short a period of time.

Mike1107 - that's exactly what I'm getting, so I'm going to try what you tried and see if that helps.

 

[phreak]

Lately I've been doing pretty heavy squats and about an hour or so after working out, I get intermittent pain just above the kneecap. Then a few more hours later, pain over the entire patella.

A day later, pain even when laying down. By the third day it's pretty much gone.

Anyone know what's going on here? I'm doing regular barbell squats, just free weights. Nothing fancy.

bro, i can share my personal experience with you on this. i had the exact same symptoms you are describing and i just ignored them. it got to the point where on warmups they would both hurt, it would get better after a few sets, and i'd think i was ok. eventually they would hurt after long periods of rest too, like when getting up to use the bathroom at night. usually i could massage the tendon right above the kneecap and it would feel better, but looking back i can see what an idiot i was for not backing off. eventually i did hurt my left patellar tendon, at the bottom of the squat mid-set.

that set me back for a long time.

your tendons are trying to tell you something- back off, get some thrapy like mike1107 suggested before you get injured, trust me.

 

[Ashop]

Lately I've been doing pretty heavy squats and about an hour or so after working out, I get intermittent pain just above the kneecap. Then a few more hours later, pain over the entire patella.

A day later, pain even when laying down. By the third day it's pretty much gone.

Anyone know what's going on here? I'm doing regular barbell squats, just free weights. Nothing fancy.

I've had to abolish squats from my training regime for the exat same thing. I now only do hack sled, leg press as close alternate with no knee pain.