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HELP! Still shooting blanks after 3 years on hCG and 9 months on hCG + Clomid

nastyn8

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If your test is 650 on hcg your not desensitized. Also hcg can only desensitise your leydig cells not the sertoli cells if it`s even possible at all. You should try to get your fsh up as high as possible while maintaining decent testosterone. Are your lh fsh on hcg +clomid?

Here are my lab numbers from the last blood draw (June 4th). This was while on 1000iu hCG 3X week, 25mg Clomid 3X week for 6 months, nothing else. .25mg Anastrozole 1X week was added after seeing that my estradiol was high and I was showing symptoms


Test, Total - 605 ng/dl (range 241-827 ng/dl
LH - 5.9 IU/L (range 1.5-9.3 IU/L)
FSH - 12.3 IU/L (range 1.4-18.4 IU/L)
HCT - 47.4% (range 38-50%)
Estradiol - 70 pg/ml (range 27-52 pg/ml)

As my doctor keeps telling me "your numbers look really good", which I believe they do. However, i'm still not producing semen. Shooting blanks. This is what my analysis states - "No sperm seen, verified by centrifugation MIL/ML"

Not really sure what to do next... Is it possible that i've completely fried my nuts and they just won't come back no matter what?
 

John99Test

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Here are my lab numbers from the last blood draw (June 4th). This was while on 1000iu hCG 3X week, 25mg Clomid 3X week for 6 months, nothing else. .25mg Anastrozole 1X week was added after seeing that my estradiol was high and I was showing symptoms


Test, Total - 605 ng/dl (range 241-827 ng/dl
LH - 5.9 IU/L (range 1.5-9.3 IU/L)
FSH - 12.3 IU/L (range 1.4-18.4 IU/L)
HCT - 47.4% (range 38-50%)
Estradiol - 70 pg/ml (range 27-52 pg/ml)

As my doctor keeps telling me "your numbers look really good", which I believe they do. However, i'm still not producing semen. Shooting blanks. This is what my analysis states - "No sperm seen, verified by centrifugation MIL/ML"

Not really sure what to do next... Is it possible that i've completely fried my nuts and they just won't come back no matter what?
It’s not impossible but highly unlikely. Although, with numbers like those I’m dumbfounded.
 

he-man100

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Here are my lab numbers from the last blood draw (June 4th). This was while on 1000iu hCG 3X week, 25mg Clomid 3X week for 6 months, nothing else. .25mg Anastrozole 1X week was added after seeing that my estradiol was high and I was showing symptoms


Test, Total - 605 ng/dl (range 241-827 ng/dl
LH - 5.9 IU/L (range 1.5-9.3 IU/L)
FSH - 12.3 IU/L (range 1.4-18.4 IU/L)
HCT - 47.4% (range 38-50%)
Estradiol - 70 pg/ml (range 27-52 pg/ml)

As my doctor keeps telling me "your numbers look really good", which I believe they do. However, i'm still not producing semen. Shooting blanks. This is what my analysis states - "No sperm seen, verified by centrifugation MIL/ML"

Not really sure what to do next... Is it possible that i've completely fried my nuts and they just won't come back no matter what?


Your lh fsh are already pretty high especially fsh. I expected them to be low normal because of the hcg. In this case I can`t think of any better protocol then the one you are already using. I don`t think clomid only will help much but you could try. It`s rare that someone who was fertil before trt can`t regain at least some fertily but it`s possible. Maybe there is another underlying issue have you been checked for Varicocele?
 

nastyn8

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Your lh fsh are already pretty high especially fsh. I expected them to be low normal because of the hcg. In this case I can`t think of any better protocol then the one you are already using. I don`t think clomid only will help much but you could try. It`s rare that someone who was fertil before trt can`t regain at least some fertily but it`s possible. Maybe there is another underlying issue have you been checked for Varicocele?

I wish I could find the answer to my problem... My doctor thought there was maybe a blockage issue or possilbly varicocele and I had an ultrasound done and also some camera device he shoved in my dick to check everything out. All turned out normal.

Do you think hMG would help?
 

he-man100

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I wish I could find the answer to my problem... My doctor thought there was maybe a blockage issue or possilbly varicocele and I had an ultrasound done and also some camera device he shoved in my dick to check everything out. All turned out normal.

Do you think hMG would help?

HMG is basicly fsh. With fsh numbers like yours I don`t think it`s useful
 

bad rad

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You're dealing with the normal issues when an uneducated MD starts prescribing fertility drugs. More is almost never better with these drugs. Keep Clomid the same and drop the hCG completely or no more than 100iu daily. Those massive injections are shutting your testes down to everything including LH, FSH, and more hCG. After 1000iu of hCG the Leydig cells have about 4 days before they'll respond to more. All that extra hCG is wasted and counterproductive. You're not injecting Test so your testes are making it. That's a sign they work but are being overwhelmed by the very mixed signals.

That high E2 is from too much hCG which blunts Test production and will stop sperm production.

From everything you've said and blood work you, at best, need a higher dose of Clomid but that 25mg x3 is a good dose long term dose. It takes 3 months for sperm cells to mature so this is a waiting game too.
 

nastyn8

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You're dealing with the normal issues when an uneducated MD starts prescribing fertility drugs. More is almost never better with these drugs. Keep Clomid the same and drop the hCG completely or no more than 100iu daily. Those massive injections are shutting your testes down to everything including LH, FSH, and more hCG. After 1000iu of hCG the Leydig cells have about 4 days before they'll respond to more. All that extra hCG is wasted and counterproductive. You're not injecting Test so your testes are making it. That's a sign they work but are being overwhelmed by the very mixed signals.

That high E2 is from too much hCG which blunts Test production and will stop sperm production.

From everything you've said and blood work you, at best, need a higher dose of Clomid but that 25mg x3 is a good dose long term dose. It takes 3 months for sperm cells to mature so this is a waiting game too.

Thank you!! I'm dropping the hCG completely for the foreseeable future. I'm actually prescribed 50mg Clomid but cut them in half and only take 25mg, so I can easily up that dose if I need to. I cut it in half after starting to get blurry vision which was affecting my night driving. But again, if it means things start working, i'll go back up to 50mg.
 

bad rad

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You could try 25mg EOD and assess sides. I get blurry vision too from Clomid.
 

nastyn8

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You could try 25mg EOD and assess sides. I get blurry vision too from Clomid.

Thank you! I appreciate everything! One last question - I have surgery scheduled for middle of October. That's about 3 weeks away. Do I cancel the surgery and keep on the clomid/anastrozole protocol for 4-5 months and do an analysis, or should I keep the surgery date? They will be performing MESA. I'm not very confident it's going to yield anything valuable. I'm willing to wait another few months on the new protocol to see if things turn around but I'm not willing to have surgery if it's going to be a waste of time and money.
 

bad rad

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Thank you! I appreciate everything! One last question - I have surgery scheduled for middle of October. That's about 3 weeks away. Do I cancel the surgery and keep on the clomid/anastrozole protocol for 4-5 months and do an analysis, or should I keep the surgery date? They will be performing MESA. I'm not very confident it's going to yield anything valuable. I'm willing to wait another few months on the new protocol to see if things turn around but I'm not willing to have surgery if it's going to be a waste of time and money.

That's completely your decision but it doesn't sound like you want it. If I was you, I'd try Clomid only for 4 weeks, get blood work, reassess, and then decide how to proceed.
 

nastyn8

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That's completely your decision but it doesn't sound like you want it. If I was you, I'd try Clomid only for 4 weeks, get blood work, reassess, and then decide how to proceed.

Thanks! Sounds like a plan! Yeah i'm not look forward to having my nuts sliced up. If anything i'll push it out a month and get labs. If numbers look good, i'll wait another couple months and get a semen analysis.
 

bad rad

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For a "reference point" I'm on 10mg testosterone daily and 150mg Clomid per week. My testicles have increased in size about 25% but also much fuller and very sensitive compared to before. My emissions are rather large now per the wife (halved Test added Clomid). Not necessarily a point of fertility but before doing this protocol those were ridiculously small.
 

nastyn8

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For a "reference point" I'm on 10mg testosterone daily and 150mg Clomid per week. My testicles have increased in size about 25% but also much fuller and very sensitive compared to before. My emissions are rather large now per the wife (halved Test added Clomid). Not necessarily a point of fertility but before doing this protocol those were ridiculously small.

I had the surgery last week. MESA / TESA. Still in a lot of pain. Not fun. They were unsuccessful in finding any sperm. I'm 100% completely shut down. I seriously suspect hCG just does not work for me. I've read so many posts about people immediately having large testicles and huge ejaculations. Not me... still suffering from atrophy and small load sizes. I'm not taking any more hCG moving forward. I'll try the clomid only approach and see how I feel in a month or so. My doctor is already talking about donor sperm. He wont really listen to me when I tell him I think hCG doesn't work for me. It's pretty annoying.
 

John99Test

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I had the surgery last week. MESA / TESA. Still in a lot of pain. Not fun. They were unsuccessful in finding any sperm. I'm 100% completely shut down. I seriously suspect hCG just does not work for me. I've read so many posts about people immediately having large testicles and huge ejaculations. Not me... still suffering from atrophy and small load sizes. I'm not taking any more hCG moving forward. I'll try the clomid only approach and see how I feel in a month or so. My doctor is already talking about donor sperm. He wont really listen to me when I tell him I think hCG doesn't work for me. It's pretty annoying.

Damn bro. I’m sorry to hear this. Keep your head up. Have you ever considered doing the Palumbo protocol. HCG/HMG/Clomid for 3 months straight. I know Bostin Lloyd didit and actually increased the dosages dramatically. Just thinking out loud here.
 

John99Test

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For a "reference point" I'm on 10mg testosterone daily and 150mg Clomid per week. My testicles have increased in size about 25% but also much fuller and very sensitive compared to before. My emissions are rather large now per the wife (halved Test added Clomid). Not necessarily a point of fertility but before doing this protocol those were ridiculously small.

Do you think it’s possible to stay on low dose TRT (like your 10mg ED) and regain fertility with an aggressive HCG/HMG/Clomid regimen? I rue the day I have to go off completely and throw the dice on whether or not I can get fertile again.
 

bad rad

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Do you think it’s possible to stay on low dose TRT (like your 10mg ED) and regain fertility with an aggressive HCG/HMG/Clomid regimen? I rue the day I have to go off completely and throw the dice on whether or not I can get fertile again.
It has worked for some and hCG w/Test kept me fertile. I tried the Clomid and 10mg Test but it didn't raise my natural LH/FSH like it did others. I think the bigger part is whether you respond to the drugs. If you're primary then hCG/hMG won't do much at all. I think my pituitary is too messed up to respond to Clomid correctly.
 

bad rad

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I had the surgery last week. MESA / TESA. Still in a lot of pain. Not fun. They were unsuccessful in finding any sperm. I'm 100% completely shut down. I seriously suspect hCG just does not work for me. I've read so many posts about people immediately having large testicles and huge ejaculations. Not me... still suffering from atrophy and small load sizes. I'm not taking any more hCG moving forward. I'll try the clomid only approach and see how I feel in a month or so. My doctor is already talking about donor sperm. He wont really listen to me when I tell him I think hCG doesn't work for me. It's pretty annoying.
It may take a while for your testes to get sensitive to LH/FSH after being drowned in hCG. Those are huge doses they had you on. Suggested starting dose for Clomid only is 25mg daily. If you're still getting blurry vision from that Clomid dose then try it EOD with 10mg Nolvadex on the other days.
 

nastyn8

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It may take a while for your testes to get sensitive to LH/FSH after being drowned in hCG. Those are huge doses they had you on. Suggested starting dose for Clomid only is 25mg daily. If you're still getting blurry vision from that Clomid dose then try it EOD with 10mg Nolvadex on the other days.

Thanks, that is what i've started doing since the surgery. I'm now a little over a week out and i'm doing 25mg clomid every day. I'll keep this up for a couple months and see how I feel (blood work/semen analysis). Hopefully good results. I agree, the hCG doses were way too much. It had the opposite effect on me. So glad to not be taking it anymore.
 

nastyn8

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Hcg/hmg/clomid brought my sperm count up from 2million-over 20 million in 3 months or so

That's a huge jump. Unfortunately i'm at 0million... literally zero. I'm completely shut off. It's not a matter of having low sperm, I literally have zero. 6 or 7 semen analysis over 4 years and also a MESA surgery (last week) where they surgically extracted fluid from my balls and analyzed it. No luck. When I got on TRT I immediately noticed testicular atrophy. it's never gone away in the 6 years of TRT and 4 years of hCG. There will be a few occasions where I will notice they are big again but that lasts a day tops. then back to shriveled grapes. Something isn't right. I'm convinced it's the hCG. I don't have the same reaction to it as everyone else has stated. i'm off it now and on clomid by itself. We'll see how I'm doing in a couple months.
 

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