HGH-IGFLR3-SLIN

concreteguy · Oct 30, 2010

Can you draw all of these together and pin them at the same time without neutralizing any of them?

concreteguy · Oct 30, 2010

concreteguy said:
Can you draw all of these together and pin them at the same time without neutralizing any of them?

Bump

concreteguy · Oct 31, 2010

concreteguy said:
Bump

come on guys! anyone have an answer on this? Please!

plang · Oct 31, 2010

You do not want to dose igf and gh at the same time

concreteguy · Oct 31, 2010

plang said:
You do not want to dose igf and gh at the same time

Why?

chemicalwarrior · Nov 1, 2010

If I remember correctly, gh response doesn't go down due to exogenous insulin- only naturally spiked insulin. I know that sounds weird, but I've looked into it wondering if I could use my humalog and GH at the same time. Theoretically I could. I haven't yet, but the thing is that since I'm taking in carbs to cover my bases/drive in nutrients during a workout after a humalog shot, how do I avoid a natural insulin spike that would ruin the effects of the gh? Answer- I don't. It'd be best to take GH when you aren't going to take in any carbs/fats per se. Again, I don't know that it'd ruin the gh response because perhaps natural insulin output would be suppressed during this time. But, I'm just not clear enough on this to lump it all together just yet. If anyone has insight, by all means, let us know!

Btw- I'm using humalog and igf1-lr3 synonymously here since they both have insulin-like effects and the body will see lr3 as an exogenous insulin. I'm not saying it is only an insulin- but just that the body will see it along the same lines in this case- as far as messing with gh response etc. And, yeah, I do also think it works basically like insulin (just the lr3)- except how it just continues to dump everything you eat into your muscles like say at a buffet. Whereas insulin would tend to put a lot of fat on you if you used it like that.

Ok, damn, it's late (3:30 here) and I'm getting loopy. I hope some of this made sense. I'm going to bed!

concreteguy · Nov 1, 2010

chemicalwarrior said:
If I remember correctly, gh response doesn't go down due to exogenous insulin- only naturally spiked insulin. I know that sounds weird, but I've looked into it wondering if I could use my humalog and GH at the same time. Theoretically I could. I haven't yet, but the thing is that since I'm taking in carbs to cover my bases/drive in nutrients during a workout after a humalog shot, how do I avoid a natural insulin spike that would ruin the effects of the gh? Answer- I don't. It'd be best to take GH when you aren't going to take in any carbs/fats per se. Again, I don't know that it'd ruin the gh response because perhaps natural insulin output would be suppressed during this time. But, I'm just not clear enough on this to lump it all together just yet. If anyone has insight, by all means, let us know!

Btw- I'm using humalog and igf1-lr3 synonymously here since they both have insulin-like effects and the body will see lr3 as an exogenous insulin. I'm not saying it is only an insulin- but just that the body will see it along the same lines in this case- as far as messing with gh response etc. And, yeah, I do also think it works basically like insulin (just the lr3)- except how it just continues to dump everything you eat into your muscles like say at a buffet. Whereas insulin would tend to put a lot of fat on you if you used it like that.

Ok, damn, it's late (3:30 here) and I'm getting loopy. I hope some of this made sense. I'm going to bed!

Thanks for taking the time to answer! What I really need to know is if these are all mixed with each other will any of them go bad as a result of mixing?

Thanks again CG

plang · Nov 1, 2010

Insulin at a certain level (1-7ius sensitizes gh receptors) more ha the opposite affect...igf-1 can negate some of gh affects...if ur not dosing at the same time why do u want to store them in the same syringe? Over an extended time period there could be some negative affect...if ur dosing immeadately. Think it's fine

concreteguy · Nov 1, 2010

plang said:
Insulin at a certain level (1-7ius sensitizes gh receptors) more ha the opposite affect...igf-1 can negate some of gh affects...if ur not dosing at the same time why do u want to store them in the same syringe? Over an extended time period there could be some negative affect...if ur dosing immeadately. Think it's fine

Yes. I'm wanting to just pin them all at the same time and concerned about the chemicals being neutralized when drawn into the same pin.

ICU11b · Nov 1, 2010

Is the IGF mixed w/ AA? It may effect the GH. I would contact one of the peptide guys & get their opinion.

plang · Nov 1, 2010

Insulin-Like Growth Factor I (Igf-I) Affects Plasma Lipid Profile And Inhibits The Lipolytic Action Of Growth Hormone (Gh) In Isolated Adipocytes, Monica Pascual, Life Sci. 57, 1213–121

In summary, various lipid metabolic pathways are influenced by IGF-I and GH. Both substances have shown a noticeable ability to lower the total cholesterol levels in plasma, which could be of potential importance for clinical applications. They also regulate triglyceride degradation in the adipose tissue. Thus, the IGF-I antilipolytic effect on GH-induced lipolysis reveals an antagonism between the actions of the growth factor and the hormone on the lipolytic activity, whose physiological significance is yet to be established.

tommygunz · Nov 1, 2010

ICU11b said:
Is the IGF mixed w/ AA? It may effect the GH. I would contact one of the peptide guys & get their opinion.

This^^^^ I would NOT mix the two for this and other reasons stated..

Not positive but pretty certain the AA will damge the gh.. Why chance it?

SmallTownIron · Nov 1, 2010

ICU11b said:
Is the IGF mixed w/ AA? It may effect the GH. I would contact one of the peptide guys & get their opinion.

Contact Genesis Peptides (Ron) here on the board. The guys knows his shit and I am sure he would be more than happy to help you out.

123cctv · Nov 1, 2010

concreteguy said:
Yes. I'm wanting to just pin them all at the same time and concerned about the chemicals being neutralized when drawn into the same pin.

GH mixed w/IGF isn't a bright idea. IGF will nuke anything the HGH would otherwise invoke/promote, including any desired muscle proliferation once it's introduced. As far as mixing them together, leave AA out of the mix.

aminoman74 · Nov 1, 2010

I take IGF-1 with slin preworkout and then do MGF GHRP/CJC post Ill be adding kygs gh and then only do the combo pre bed.

123cctv · Nov 1, 2010

aminoman74 said:
I take IGF-1 with slin preworkout and then do MGF GHRP/CJC post Ill be adding kygs gh and then only do the combo pre bed.

I think you got it backwards.

IGF-1 stops MGF, beneficial for muscle, stem cell proliferation initiated/created during WO.

Perhaps invoking cell proliferation first via your WO, THEN if desired, admin IGF-1 later after you've given MGF a chance to do its thing. This is a far better method for growth.

aminoman74 · Nov 2, 2010

Nope this is how i do it and so does Ron from Genises peptides runs his.I know this is how he has his pros that he trains and sponcers runs his things also.

plang · Nov 2, 2010

It's the way most do it...igf-1 pre, slin pre....ghrp/cjc/mgf pwo...

123cctv · Nov 2, 2010

plang said:
It's the way most do it...igf-1 pre, slin pre....ghrp/cjc/mgf pwo...

Not sure that "most do it" this way is accurate. In fact I believe you'll find just the opposite. However regardless, even if the vast majority do inject Slin/IGF pre, doesn't necessarily mean it's the best method to follow fpr growth and cell proliferation. By the way aminoman74, Ron sells good products, but this protocol doesn't seem to be the best advice.

Some things of importance are understanding how these hormones (peptides) work as it relates to the body. Some of the information below is from studies or garnished elsewhere.

Always maximize the effects of exo hormones by patterning administration after your own bodily cycles. By micking bodily patterns, better results are possible.

Let's focus on growth and cell proliferation. It's been the general consensus that MGF is only produced by damaged/stretched or loaded muscle tissue as a repair and rebuilding mechanism. These affects are generally achieved by a WO varying from stretch, as well as eccentric and concentric loads Administering MGF Post WO, AFTER mechanical loading via weight training of CONcentric and ECCentric loads is perfect. Further and probably just as important is that levels of specific IGF-binding proteins such as IGFBP-4 are lower Post WO..

IGFBP-4 is a protein which binds to IGF-1 and inhibits its anabolic effects. Note the attached chart bottom.

So note levels of IGFBP-4 are lower than usual AFTER WO, not Pre. In addition, Post WO IGF-1 levels are high, especially MGF. Following our bodily pattern, an additional spike in those levels via exo admin would aid in the body’s ability to induce myogenesis and therefore hypertrophy. If you're going to admin IGF-1 and MGF, at least inject them when binding protein levels are at their lowest and natural levels are higher, granting maximum anabolic effects.

Next, GH is subject to a negative feedback loop via the introduction of IGF-1. By introducing IGF-1 into your system PRIOR to administration of GHRP/CJC, etc. you're screwing your own natural GH secretion. Essentially, once the body detects the IGF-1, you can kiss your natural secretion of GH goodbye. This is a complete waste if you ask me as you are blunting GH secretion and even still, it's backwards as to how the body disperses hormones = it's unnatural.

Something else I've read DaBtrue states and studies confirm IGF-1 when introduced into the system STOPS all muscle cell proliferation. MGF OTH hand promotes proliferation. IGF has it's own receptor. MGF also utilizing the same IGF receptor! By introducing IGF-1 first, then injecting MGF, the desirable IGF receptors are occupied. Of course, again this is backwards. Note Dat's comments re: IGF/MGF receptors and proliferation.
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...2-dats-best-way-use-igf-1-lr3.html#post658506

And while I've mentioned DatBtrue, he's repeatedly mentioned the differences between "proliferation and differentiation". Further confirming IGF-1 overides MGF's proliferation activity. I guess it all matters on what you are out to promote.

Anyhow there are several problems you are creating within this protocol, not to mention Slin Pre WO is another debatable issue. Though I've done this myself, I won't bother venturing down this path. Yet between the two, Slin Pre or Post, I'd stick with Post any day, even though I'm a firm believer of "mixing things up".

None the less IF I were you, I'd consider taking GHRH/CJC Pre WO, along with MGF Post or possibly Pre (though post is better for reasons stated above). After these have had their time to work, after proliferation has occurred, after your body has secreted it's own natural GH release, THEN IGF-1 with the expectation of blunting the previous two hormones (HGH/MGF).