High BUN and creatinine???

[dan525]

I am looking for advice here. I am a 37 year old powerlifter 5'7 225 apx 10%bf. I have been training for 23 years. My recent bloodwork came back and my doctor is telling me a need to see a kidney specialist because I have acute renal failure. My bun was at 23 with a normal range of 7-20. and my creatinine was 1.6 with a normal range of .8 to 1.4. From what I have read these values are influenced by muscle mass, creatine intake and protein intake -all of which I am guilty of. My liver values alt/ast were in the 50's which is slightly elevated. I attribute this to taking pheraplex within the last month. My total cholesteral was 130, but my hdl was 19. I was most concerned with my hdl , but I also attribute that to recent use of pheraplex. I have been on hrt for the last 2 years at apx 200 mgs of test every two weeks. I normally bump the dose to 600-700 mgs test for 8 weeks about every 6 months. I nwanted to run tren for an upcoming powerlifting comp., however I wanted opinions since my kidney values are showing off. My CPK enzymes werw at 1500 which was ten times normal , but this was taken 8 hours after a super intense leg workout that left me limping. CPK enzymes are elevated in weight lifter so it makes sense that the bigger, more massive lifters would have the highest levels. right? THe doctor said my powerlifting is destrying my body whci is proven by my abnormal blood work. I asked the doc if its possible that my muscle mass ,protein intake and creatine use may be given a false reading. I also asked if its possible that that my values may not be abnormal for someone with my amount of mass that trains intensely. He said no and stated that I will need dialysys. I eat clean, train hard, cardio 20-30 minutes 3 times per week, BP normal and my stress echo revealed no problems. Actually the cardiologist said she was surprised at how well conditioned my heart was and that it took 20 nets of exercise to get my heart rate up to 160 bpm. My diet consists of 300-400 grams protein, moderate carbs mostly complex carbs and most of my fats come from salmon , almonds or fishoils pills. I also try to eat 5-6 servings of vegetables and fruits per day. I am just looking for advice from someone knowlegeable ??? Thanks!

 

[Putin]

Get a second bloodwork done, and a second opinion. Dont forget that doctors are mostly always wrong. Maybe try get bloodwork done on a day that you dont train and take a break from the protein and creatine a couple days before your bloodwork. See maybe that will make a difference. Those numbers are off, but not by that much. I mean, I got my blood tested and the doc wanted me to come in cuz she thought there was something wrong with me, my RBC was just slightly above the limit, which is normal when you're on the juice.
Dont forget, the load of protein you take takes a load on your kidneys.

 

[NinjaEd]

ok man....you are a little bit on the high end, and not only because because you are over the limits, but even if you were 20 & 1.4 you would be high even tho it is in range.

your doctor is right, DO SEE A KIDNEY SPECIALIST ASAP! My brother had kidney failure at 22 and needed a kidney transplant 4 years ago....do not waste time with going to get more blood work done by a second doctor who is not a nephrologist. Odd are they will run blood work again, do ultrasounds and maybe do a biopsy of the kidney.

It's your health, and anyone who is NOT a doctor does not qualify to give you advise that is not what your doctor told you. Do see a doctor to avoid kidney failure and ended up on dialysis and a waiting list (which is already up to 10 years) for a kidney.

Good luck...if you are in the NJ/NYC area, hit me up and I can suggest a few excellent doctors for you as I do a lot of work in the dialysis industry

 

[Tom]

could be the training....

my values were also elevated but i had the blood drawn close to an intense training session. my doc said take 2 days off training and re-draw....values were normal. i would consider finding a doc that is more in tune with athletes and thier training and diet practices. your doc sounds like he's clueless.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

What is your creatinine clearance ??? I cant believe the doctor is telling you this???????????? Those are decent numbers.

 

[NinjaEd]

Those are decent numbers.

actually those are high....I know my brother, after a kidney transplant from a female, has a creatinine level of 1.4 and he gets blood work every 2 weeks. The 1.4 is the high-end, so when you are over, its not good especially if he has been taxing his kidneys with AAS for a long time

if he has health insurance, he should take advantage of it and just make an appointment with a specialist. the kidneys can go bad on someone in no time, but it is his health, so it is on him

 

[PHIL HERNON]

?

Is your brother a muscular guy? 1.4 is childs play! haahahahahha Get a creatinine clearance test then lets talk about this.

 

[NinjaEd]

Is your brother a muscular guy? 1.4 is childs play! haahahahahha Get a creatinine clearance test then lets talk about this.

at the time of his kidney failure he was 22 6' 265 and around 10%, I remember him putting up 550 one day in the gym at rutgers...he is now 29 and currently about 210

 

[Dad]

Doctors are not "mostly always wrong" - comments like this are, however. There has not been conclusive evidence that higher protein intakes in humans with normal kidney function causes kidney damage or problems. This is, of course, different for patients with existing kidney problems.

DO get a second opinion and further tests, and take this seriously! Phil is correct in stating that creatinine clearance is important - see if this was done on yuor initial screen.

Hope this resolves itself well!

 

[NinjaEd]

DO get a second opinion, and take this seriously! Yuo do not want kidney problems.

it seems that is what his doctor told him to do by telling him to see a nephrologist.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

?

at the time of his kidney failure he was 22 6' 265 and around 10%, I remember him putting up 550 one day in the gym at rutgers...he is now 29 and currently about 210

6-2. 265?? BENCHES 550? Was he on tren?

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Dan

I would bet that you have no kidney issues ,you are just a muscular guy. Your BUN and creatinine are slightly elevated but I would venture a guess and tell you that you are slightly dehydrated. Do you drink a lot of diet soda? Start drinking plain water. Maybe try some niacin also for your HDL levels. Stay on fish oils and watch your BP.

 

[Putin]

Doctors are not "mostly always wrong" - comments like this are, however.

Yeah, I know, I've just been watching too much "mystery diagnosis" where people see like 100 docs and they keep saying "you're just fine" That's what happends when I come in to the docs office, he looks at me, says you're young, you must be healthy, it's just a cold, take a couple of these it's nothing to worry about. Doctors misdiagnose all the time, that's why a second opinion or even a third one is a good idea.

 

[glock95]

What?

Dan, those lab values are just outside of normal. Creatinine in an adult should be between .5 and 1.2 mg/dl; BUN between between 10 and 20 mg/dl. Creatinine is created through muscle damage and can be elevated after strenuous exercise. BUN is an indication of hydration status. I think Phil said to drink more water and no exercise for a week and retest. Also, I cannot believe any clinician, even an experienced nurse would say such a thing based on one blood test. I have seen people with creatinine levels of 4 or 5 return to normal after acute renal failure. Something is not right here. Is there more to this story?

Dr. Glock

 

[NinjaEd]

6-2. 265?? BENCHES 550? Was he on tren?

not tren, but he was on....he is just one of those people who is really blessed with great strenght, wish I had his strength

 

[dan525]

No, there is nothing else I'm not telling. Well actuallyI had an injured shoulder at the time of the test. I don't know if that would elevate my bun and creatininne. it could have contributed to my elevated CPK level. I was doing some research and the creatinine levels are normally higher in males then females due to more muscle mass. So if the normal range is .8 to 1.2 or 1.4 and males are higher to begin with, I would think some one carrying 40-50 lbs more muscle then normal would be higher.I will definitely geta second opinion , but I realize doctors are human. More and more I find that many doctors don't understand what we do. This same doctor said my CPK level should not be elevated at all since I am have been lifting for 20 years. He said my body should be used to my routine by now. I tried to explain that the bigger and stronger you get the harder you train to shock the muscles into new growth. I also told him that I purposely train til failure and he stated that it is not good to train that hard. I am a competitive powerlifter with a 530 raw max bench , 610 squat and 670 deadlift. As far as AAS use, I was clean for 8 years until 2years ago. I was having symptoms of low test and was put on HRT. The doctor said was not caused by testicular shutdown , but was my brain not sending the signals to produce FSH and LH. I forgot to mention I was diagnosed with sleep apnea in January and am now using CPAP. THe sleep specialist said I was waking up 240 times per night. Since using the CPAP I feel 100x better overall. Apparently there are 5 stages of sleep and I was only hitting stage 1. I wonder if that could have caused the shutdown of my natural test production.? Could that have any effect on kidney function? I am trying to get opinions from other athletes or doctors with more of a background in powerlifting/bodybuilding since many doctors seem to be in the dark when it comes to supplements and training in general.

 

[glock95]

What is your diagnosis?

You should have a diagnosis. Is your physician saying that you have chronic renal disease and will need dialysis at sometime in the future? Dialysis is a last resort treatment to keep someone alive who is in end stage renal failure. If you truly need dialysis you must have a diagnosis from a nephrologist. If you needed dialysis now you would be in the hospital, probably in an intensive care unit.

Dr. Glock

 

[glock95]

Sleep apnea can raise your blood pressure and keep it there. The CPAP should lower it. Do you have hypertension? Hypertension can damage your kidneys quickly.
Yes, some physicians are "In the dark about supplements and training" particularly what affects multiple supraphysiological doses of AAS, hormones,catecholeamines, etc. can do to the body when used at the same time, as bodybuilders do. What you are talking about is medical school 101. This is basic physiology. Where did your doctor get his degree? A Cracker Jack box ? Is he really a physician, or just one taht plays a doctor on T.V.?

 

[dan525]

My doctor has been my doctor since I was 2 so about 35 years at least. My blood pressure was running 150/80 before CPAP. NOw it is 115/60 on avergae. I usually check it 10 times per week.