Higher fat content in pros diet - how's that possible with potential slin use?

[Othello]

Lol it doesn't prevent fat burning.

this is what google says on the matter

"One of the basic functions of insulin in the body is to inhibit lipolysis in adipocytes. Recently, we have found that insulin inhibits lipolysis and promotes triglyceride storage by decreasing transcription of adipose triglyceride lipase via the mTORC1-mediated pathway (P."


is there something i am misunderstanding?

 

[luki7788]

this is what google says on the matter

"One of the basic functions of insulin in the body is to inhibit lipolysis in adipocytes. Recently, we have found that insulin inhibits lipolysis and promotes triglyceride storage by decreasing transcription of adipose triglyceride lipase via the mTORC1-mediated pathway (P."


is there something i am misunderstanding?

it doesn't work like that, if you are deficient no matter if you take insulin or not you lose fat anyway - otherwise diabetics couldn't be bodybuilders and we have many diabetic bodybuilders

 

[juggy38]

The insulin fat lipolysis thing…..it’s not an on/off switch. Think of it more like one of those dimmer knobs for fancy lights. The more insulin, the more you turn down the knob..light being metaphorical fat lipolysis. As we have less insulin in the bloodstream, the light gets brighter.

Hgh…brighter light, long fasting hours, brighter light…epherderine, clen, etc….brighter light

 

[btails]

Lol it doesn't prevent fat burning. Fasted cardio is so beneficial because your blood sugar is at its lowest. You will always have aminos fats and glucose in the blood stream.

Taking insulin lowers the blood glucose even further making you burn more fat. Combined with inject l carn it will pull more fatty acids into the blood stream which will be burned off via cardio.

There's a reason there's is a kamikaze fatloss method that I will not repost. But you can Google it. It's dangerous

Googled kamikaze fatloss.. nothing came up?

 

[Pizza15]

Googled kamikaze fatloss.. nothing came up?

I think that he was referring to a very old diet, very common in Hollywood, which was something like just meat and low dose R insulin with every meal.

 

[Pizza15]

Mmmh high fat diet should be something like 1g/kg or more for a bodybuilder.
Usually i always kept fats between 0,5-1g/kg fats.

Now consider a 300lbs gentleman, which is 137kg if he eats 137g fats ed it's not an insane high value. Now think also that you have to eat a lot 137g fats are 1233 calories, when you are eating 6-7k ed they help you tasting everything better.

Now we have also to consider that if you don't add fats to your meals, plus high carb meals, fibers are lowest possible because you need to push the food, you will have huge insulin spikes and risk reactive hypo after every meal without the fats.
Maybe the exogenous insulin can fix that i don't think it's the best thing to do...


About insulin usage i am also thinking about that.....

Guys consider that Luki is 300lbs+ mofo and uses 60iu ed Log + 10iu+ HGH.
I doubt that, for example me, i can use the same about of Insulin without becoming a fat slob. So i think that we should also consider our weight vs total insulin dose....

One thing that really still makes me a bit astonished are some guys from Tuor, which are peeled all time even in off-season.
Well also Wilkin, works with Jansen, jeez he is 300+lbs with full abs....

 

[gradeaphysique]

Hi guys are you ever wonder hows that even possible that whenever one of the top pro's shere they "full day of eating" for example guys like Nick Walker, Brett W etc. In many cases there is quite a bit of fat in ther diets, even around training. These guys eat, for example, cream of rice + steak + almond butter befer training etc. They also very often use not very lean beef and lots of salmon (even after training, for example J. Holingshead in his recent video). I can't believe these guys don't use insulin before/after training, it just seems like a waste of potential, especially for those who still need to grow like Brett. What do you guys think is the reason for all these fats (especially before training) and how does this relate to insulin use?

I think the shift from "chicken and rice and maybe broccoli x6" to a still pretty modest fat intake is far overdue. I see only very specific times to have a truly low fat diet and that may be deep into contest prep when you are using variables like precise tools to manipulate look and training.

What people don't conceptualize too well is that bodybuilding nutrition is about the direction of a diet. If you are in an offseason and consistently in a caloric surplus and at the same macros daily or the same cycles of macros weekly, insulin usage will not magically store more fat than anything. It is a tool to manage blood glucose and better utilize carbohydrate intake which we know is a huge benefit to guys shoveling down food in the offseason. You would get fatter likely without the slin as your bg would be higher and if using the insulin wisely, without it those carbs are not being used as efficiently, leading to less benefit to training and just making that surplus lose it's benefit overall.

Fat typically enhances insulin usage actually. It keeps those blood glucose increases much more blunted. The lower the peaks of blood glucose, the less hypo events, the steadier application of those carbs over time and the better blood glucose control. All of those outcomes seem beneficial to me.

This is coming from a type 1 diabetic of a decade who has used insulin in many ways and forms while training and bodybuilding.

 

[Hyperemia]

The insulin fat lipolysis thing…..it’s not an on/off switch. Think of it more like one of those dimmer knobs for fancy lights. The more insulin, the more you turn down the knob..light being metaphorical fat lipolysis. As we have less insulin in the bloodstream, the light gets brighter.

Hgh…brighter light, long fasting hours, brighter light…epherderine, clen, etc….brighter light

That dimmer is a great visual representation. Well put!

 

[need4tren]

I think that he was referring to a very old diet, very common in Hollywood, which was something like just meat and low dose R insulin with every meal.

It's basically where you just go super hypo to the point your sweating buckets and ride that line for as long as you can and your body is basically burning bodyfat to keep you going. Very dangerous.

 

[Pizza15]

It's basically where you just go super hypo to the point your sweating buckets and ride that line for as long as you can and your body is basically burning bodyfat to keep you going. Very dangerous.

Exactly that.

 

[Pizza15]

I think the shift from "chicken and rice and maybe broccoli x6" to a still pretty modest fat intake is far overdue. I see only very specific times to have a truly low fat diet and that may be deep into contest prep when you are using variables like precise tools to manipulate look and training.

What people don't conceptualize too well is that bodybuilding nutrition is about the direction of a diet. If you are in an offseason and consistently in a caloric surplus and at the same macros daily or the same cycles of macros weekly, insulin usage will not magically store more fat than anything. It is a tool to manage blood glucose and better utilize carbohydrate intake which we know is a huge benefit to guys shoveling down food in the offseason. You would get fatter likely without the slin as your bg would be higher and if using the insulin wisely, without it those carbs are not being used as efficiently, leading to less benefit to training and just making that surplus lose it's benefit overall.

Fat typically enhances insulin usage actually. It keeps those blood glucose increases much more blunted. The lower the peaks of blood glucose, the less hypo events, the steadier application of those carbs over time and the better blood glucose control. All of those outcomes seem beneficial to me.

This is coming from a type 1 diabetic of a decade who has used insulin in many ways and forms while training and bodybuilding.

So on your experience, how would you use insulin?

 

[gradeaphysique]

So on your experience, how would you use insulin?

That is a very general question. But in general application...


THIS IS NOT ADVICE

I would have a moderate basal (example 10 iu lantus daily)

And a 70/30 blend 30 minute prior to a pre workout meal, use intra carbs + pepto and or EAAS, eat a post workout meal. The 70/30 dosage should cover all of that peri workout food and shake (example 20-30 iu)

The rest of the carbs through the day I like to have lower glycemic or fat manipulated. So lentils, brown rice and potato with olive oil eaten after your protein

But the most important marker to gauge usage are your blood glucose readings. It's foolish to focus on the hypothetical igf increase or some concept of shuttling massive amounts of carbs if your fasting bg isn't good. The intro to insulin or proper use should start with getting your fasting bg around 80. If you want to make sure you are using carbs efficiently, test 3x daily and average out. If your average is favorable then you are using carbs efficiently, that's the goal. If we can pin daily we can prick multiple times daily, it's worth it.

 

[qbkilla]

That is a very general question. But in general application...


THIS IS NOT ADVICE

I would have a moderate basal (example 10 iu lantus daily)

And a 70/30 blend 30 minute prior to a pre workout meal, use intra carbs + pepto and or EAAS, eat a post workout meal. The 70/30 dosage should cover all of that peri workout food and shake (example 20-30 iu)

The rest of the carbs through the day I like to have lower glycemic or fat manipulated. So lentils, brown rice and potato with olive oil eaten after your protein

But the most important marker to gauge usage are your blood glucose readings. It's foolish to focus on the hypothetical igf increase or some concept of shuttling massive amounts of carbs if your fasting bg isn't good. The intro to insulin or proper use should start with getting your fasting bg around 80. If you want to make sure you are using carbs efficiently, test 3x daily and average out. If your average is favorable then you are using carbs efficiently, that's the goal. If we can pin daily we can prick multiple times daily, it's worth it.

If someone is in the high 90s and already lean, would you recommend a low carb diet to get into the 80s?

 

[tren_plz]

If someone is in the high 90s and already lean, would you recommend a low carb diet to get into the 80s?

Anyone running GH isnt waking up with a fasted 80BG i'll tell you that right now.

I'm post show and a walking GDA. I'm wearing a dexcom just to track my BG and i'm going into the low 70s, but even i'm waking up with a BG at 90 and i just added GH.

 

[BigNJ]

I can only give my experience with Patrick. I didn't go over 5iu of insulin pre or post. His gear Is also pretty low. Normal injectables nothing crazy. Orals are low, 50mg of winstrol precontest with proviron, 20mg tbol preworkout in offseason. He just makes you work harder and not want to let him down

5ius of Insulin? What's the point? Not being a dick here, I'm jus curious. 5IUs is extremely low.

 

[BigNJ]

Thats rather obivious but... Theres a limit to everything and steak and almond butter + slin is sound a little unessesary to me ;p

Also, consider whether the person is taking GH and T3 while on Insulin. Some people don't. Too many variables to consider. Not directed at you, however, the stuff I sometimes read on this board is baffling. In the past, in the early to mid-2000s I did use Insulin, I am an ectomorph, and did not gain much fat at all if any. Believe me, when I tell you I ate everything, I did not follow a diet, I ate fast food, ice cream, KFX, etc... I rarely used GH back then, we had some Jintropin and some GH from Homer back in the day. I never gain fat, even to this day, I eat like crap and never gain fat whether I use insulin or not.

Genetics plays a significant role. It's too subjective for the individual. Again I am not directly dissing you or your thoughts, I am just replying and pointing out the obvious which a lot of people tend to miss or not include in the equation. You have young fellas who read articles and think it's how everyone uses things.

 

[btails]

It's basically where you just go super hypo to the point your sweating buckets and ride that line for as long as you can and your body is basically burning bodyfat to keep you going. Very dangerous.

Sounds like fun. Lol

 

[pesty4077]

I dont think I been eating below 125 grams of fats per day. I am the leanest guy in gym right behind 2 guys who are doing shows in 2 weeks. Not a keto diet either. I eat adequate carbs too.

I will say this again, results vary with different people. Get to know your body and stop depending on Gurus.

 

[gradeaphysique]

So on your experience, how would you use insulin?

That is a very general question. But in general application...


THIS IS NOT ADVICE

I would have a moderate basal (example 10 iu lantus daily)

And a 70/30 blend 30 minute prior to a pre workout meal, use intra carbs + pepto and or EAAS, eat a post workout meal. The 70/30 dosage should cover all of that peri workout food and shake (example 20-30 iu)

The rest of the carbs through the day I like to have lower glycemic or fat manipulated. So lentils, brown rice and potato with olive oil eat

If someone is in the high 90s and already lean, would you recommend a low carb diet to get into the 80s?

There are too many other variables to give a recommendation.

A lower carb diet doesn't always have a linear response in blood glucose. Timing matters, protein and fats matter and much more.

I definitely would shoot for a lower blood glucose but I'm not saying the high 90s is something to ring an alarm over. I do think it's important to get it lower being that you are already lean, so say you go into a phase where you are eating in a surplus and trying to put on tissue, your bg will likely creep up and you'll quickly be too high for a non diabetic.

 

[Pizza15]

By the end of last offseason i was on an average of 800g carbs ed, 30mins cardio ed, 1g Metformin XR (but gave me such a bad acid reflux), 10iu Log with prewo meal and postwo meal, had 50 hbcd and 20g eaa intra, 10iu HGH before wo/bed ed.
My glucose fasted was around 80-85ish.

Then by the end i added 10iu Lantus before bed, removed Metformin, glucose was around the same.

So i applied almost what @gradeaphysique said... Instead of a 70/30 insulin, isn't possible to just use Humalog pre and postwo or Humalin R prewo?