Home made: sterility

Wallace · Nov 10, 2004

I have talked to many home brewers, and many reported very little effect from aas heated for sterilising pourposes.

Some "big" friends have tried home brewed stuff NOT HEATED, and they claim to be much more effective than the "heated" one.

I myself tryed some home made Cypio and Deca (heat sterilised, 30 min x 3), the Cypio had been analised and was legit, with no effect whatsoever...

I have made some deca 200mg/ml sterilising the oil (60 min 180 degress - I live in Europe

) and the vials (of course), 7% BA and 15% BB, filtering 0,44 and 0,2 and NO HEATING either the powder or the final solution.

I sent a sample to the microbiology lab where it was cultured: NO GROWTH.

They actually tested only aerobic bacteria.
There are few other microorganisms who could theoretically be in there:
anaerobic bacteria
virus
fungi
prions
spores

Anaerobic bacteria: I do not know how they could be in the stuff. They do not survive in air. The oil was sterile so it cannot contain anaerobs. The only contaminant could be the powder. BUT, powder was dry and exposed to air. Besides BA kills bacteria, yet I do not know if it kills all kind of anaerobs.

Virus: destroid by BA 7% (it should be enough with 1% actually)

Fungi: after some time they should "show" in the oil. I have had the stuff for 6 weeks now and it is still clear. Besides, I suspect the BA kills them.

Prions: are proteins which can transmit seriuos diseases like the mad cow one ... I do not know much about these. I wonder why they should be in the original raw powder, where they could come from ... and I do not know the effect of BA and filtering ... I suspect they being pretty much difficult to eliminate or denaturate without a proper heating cyclus, but I do not know ...

Spores: again ... why the hell should a raw powder contain spores? No idea whether BA destroys them ... spores which give bith to aerobic bacteria should have shown with the test, which was negative ...

As u see, there are fre unanswered issues, but I have the practical test by at least ten people who have been using the stuff since last spring and are alive and kicking ...

Just my two cents

Wallace

PS - I have not still tried the last Deca ....

xcelbeyond · Nov 10, 2004

Great info - thanks!

cal · Nov 10, 2004

sure you powders were legit?

ive used powders mostly ...and if it aint real...well the bacteria is making me real strong!

rAJJIN · Nov 10, 2004

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I myself never bake or heat the finished product.
Ill warm the powder up a bit to melt it into the soluition after that
its up the filters. no problems here in the fer years Ive been converting

Wallace · Nov 11, 2004

rAJJIN said:
I myself never bake or heat the finished product.
Ill warm the powder up a bit to melt it into the soluition after that
its up the filters. no problems here in the fer years Ive been converting

When oil and glasses are sterilized (180 degrees Celsius, 60 min at least) I screw the owen down to 40 degrees and hold it there.

I always put the stuff in the owen during the variuos phases of the process, to hold it at about 40 degress and have it more fluid, easier to go through filters and easier to mix and melt. 40 degress is enough to melt the "easy" ones, like deca, and not able to damage any aas.

The powder were tested and were all legit (the last ones, from which the unheated deca comes): deca, cypio, enant, win, dbol, tren enant, bold, oxy, oxa, primo enant...

The only concern from the powder analysis is the presence of heavy metals as contaminants. The analysis were done by a friend who send me an email with the message that all products were real and pure. He mentioned the heavy metal issue but did not give any number.

There is a cut off for heavy metals in every farmaceutical raw material, it is listed in an official book which comes with a new issue every year (in Europa at least). Besides, most of the aas raw stuff producers and sellers have these data available, also in the net.

I am waiting for the numbers of these contaminants ... actually been waiting for weeks now ...

By the way: I also made some liquid (oral) dbol. used only ethilic alcohol as a solvent, went greit. 1 ml of solution makes about 35 drops and each drop contains circa 5mg dbol. It's been stored for 6 weeks now and still celar with no sign of precipitation.

Wallace

PS - I tested today my blood lipids and hematocrit ... the Hct is still too high to think to go on cycle (54%). I need to draw some blood and then, when Hct is under 45%, will I try the Deca. Then will I tell u if I feel it or not (if sbd is interested)

PS2 - do not ask me to buy any product. I am here just to share info and discuss interesting chemical issues. I do not sell anything!

Coopie · Nov 11, 2004

My prior conversions are limited to Fina, but I have converted my fair share of Fine over the years. In my conversions I have always used Animal's Kits, and I have never heated nor baked the final product.

According to the guys on the old GotFina board (which I used to be on daily), some liked to bake, others did not. In both cases that board was home to hundreds of home-brewers who very rarely had problems w/ their finished product.

I think that if proper protocol is followed then your risk of problem is low.