i ranted on a Arnold post sorry...

[bigbaldbulldog]

i ranted on a pro hormone post sorry...

For those who saw my rant sorry...did you know that
7,000 people die each year from pharmacutical screw ups ....
120,000 die from infections caused my inproper sterilization in hospitals a year
7,500 die from asprin reactions
18,000 die from penecillin reactions
4,200 surgicals tools are left inside patients each year

We need to worry about those things more then the 7% of USA population who use AAS and the 1% who have complications later in life from our ignorance..let us police yourselves...how many guys are negatively effected by steroids ?The ones who invite trouble are the ones who abuse the shit out of their bodies..your askign for trouble if you measure your shots in grams not mgs...take a good look at the guys from the 60's-70's early 80's and they looked great...

They gave me the confidence i never had as a kid who was shy,small and introverted...at 5ft 5in 125 lbs 17 years old...it allowed me to be a person i was afraid to be..i owe alot to them...i am no longer a slave to them but that is the difference between use and abuse...used they can wonderful things..know where the line is.

 

[USMuscle9403]

Nothing wrong with ranting about it at all, but I'm afraid these things aren't going to change until the government starts making mega bucks on AAS like they do on pharmaceuticals, tobacco and alcohol. Notice that you don't see the gov't going after RX meds being resold nearly as vigorously as they do AAS that one may buy from overseas or Mexico. This is pure speculation of course, but I guess they're saying, "Hey, we already made our money on it! Let 'em do what they want and if we catch them red-handed re-selling we'll give them a slap on the hand".

Hey, plus it gives them something else to do to draw attention away from really major issues. That's always convenient.

 

[alpha-longhorn]

these rants are going on.... on EVERY bodybuilding forum I goto.. And I'll agree with these rants.. but my point is, who is gonna give a shit if the only people who hear you rant, are the same ones who agree with you? You are singing to the choir bro.. I mean, if the point is just to blow off some steam, then fine, rant on some more.. But the bottom line is, no one outside of bodybuilding hears SHIT, because no one will stand up in front of newspapers and cameras and say all these things people rant about daily on bodybuilding boards..

See the thing is, people know about the death in the hospitals, they know about the pharmaceutical deaths, because there are lots of people who stood up and said That was bullshit.. Can we expect bodybuilders to do the same for roids? NOPE.

 

[big_byrd52]

People try, like Rick Collins and MikeS, but the media doesnt want to hear about it. They have a job to frame peoples perspectives and tell them what to think. What the hell would people do if they got conflicting information?! who would they believe? they would either get confused and forget about the whole thing so they dont have to put forth the effort to actually think for themselves- or they would do a little digging on their own and learn the truth. either way, the issue would drop off.

 

[bigbaldbulldog]

Anesthesia

More stats for ya...11,850 people died lasy year as a direct results of improper and complications involving anesthesia during routine operations..... 80% of those deaths could of been prevented if accupuncture was used if it was recognized by US as a legitimate medical practice... Imagine the money lost if you were only charged for the needles and an a Dr to administor them.. that would sahve about $7500 off your bill not to mention the lives saved..

 

[BrooklynJuice]

For those who saw my rant sorry...did you know that
7,000 people die each year from pharmacutical screw ups ....
120,000 die from infections caused my inproper sterilization in hospitals a year
7,500 die from asprin reactions
18,000 die from penecillin reactions
4,200 surgicals tools are left inside patients each year

We need to worry about those things more then the 7% of USA population who use AAS and the 1% who have complications later in life from our ignorance...

The way you present figure is quite misleading.

Using the same exact numbers I can say that;

Nearly 3,000,000 people have complications due to steroid use.

If you were then to put those 1st numbers as % of USA population it would be a tiny fraction of a 1%. Then if you were to compare those same numbers vs. successful pharamacy scripts, asprin use, etc etc etc You would quickly realize to base any arguement the way these numbers coorelate, holds no water

 

[haze324]

I agree the numbers are a bit misleading and you can manipulate numbers to show what you want, but I think he's referring to 1% of the 7% which is closer to 200,000. Thats still a pretty high fucking number though!

 

[PHIL HERNON]

BBB

More stats for ya...11,850 people died lasy year as a direct results of improper and complications involving anesthesia during routine operations..... 80% of those deaths could of been prevented if accupuncture was used if it was recognized by US as a legitimate medical practice... Imagine the money lost if you were only charged for the needles and an a Dr to administor them.. that would sahve about $7500 off your bill not to mention the lives saved..

Are you ok? I am getting worried about you.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Good point

these rants are going on.... on EVERY bodybuilding forum I goto.. And I'll agree with these rants.. but my point is, who is gonna give a shit if the only people who hear you rant, are the same ones who agree with you? You are singing to the choir bro.. I mean, if the point is just to blow off some steam, then fine, rant on some more.. But the bottom line is, no one outside of bodybuilding hears SHIT, because no one will stand up in front of newspapers and cameras and say all these things people rant about daily on bodybuilding boards..

See the thing is, people know about the death in the hospitals, they know about the pharmaceutical deaths, because there are lots of people who stood up and said That was bullshit.. Can we expect bodybuilders to do the same for roids? NOPE.

And where are these stats coming from? BBB, you arent reading Jose Cansecos' book are you?

 

[bigbaldbulldog]

And where are these stats coming from? BBB, you arent reading Jose Cansecos' book are you?

Read his book...Hmmm...notta. As far as the numbers go there was a special on dateline a while back and i happen to think about that...As far as 3,000,000 steroid complications...i would be very interested in knowing how many people use them yearly or on a regular basis...and what to you call a complication from steroid use and pimple or hair loss? My numbers were based on stats from a a TV show but the bottom line is people die not got sick from improper use,medication dose or wrong kind....
Did anyone ever die cause they took 10mgs of d-boll and died within 2 hours..NO....it took years of constant ABUSE over YEARS....that is the point i want to make.WE ARE TO BLAME...SO LET US ROLL THE DICE...we are more knowledgable then 95% of the people who just walk into a drug store hand the script to the tech and take their meds and do not even question what they take..WE DO OUR HOME WORK.....

 

[PHIL HERNON]

I AM NOT SO SURE

Read his book...Hmmm...notta. As far as the numbers go there was a special on dateline a while back and i happen to think about that...As far as 3,000,000 steroid complications...i would be very interested in knowing how many people use them yearly or on a regular basis...and what to you call a complication from steroid use and pimple or hair loss? My numbers were based on stats from a a TV show but the bottom line is people die not got sick from improper use,medication dose or wrong kind....
Did anyone ever die cause they took 10mgs of d-boll and died within 2 hours..NO....it took years of constant ABUSE over YEARS....that is the point i want to make.WE ARE TO BLAME...SO LET US ROLL THE DICE...we are more knowledgable then 95% of the people who just walk into a drug store hand the script to the tech and take their meds and do not even question what they take..WE DO OUR HOME WORK.....

I DONT REALLY THINK WE KNOW WHAT 1 BOTTLE OF TESTOSTERONE DOES TO US. CAN YOU ANSWER THAT? MOST PEOPLE WOULD SAY, "YOU WILL GAIN 20 POUNDS". NO, WHAT IS IT REALLY DOING? NO ONE CAN ANSWER THAT. ALL WE LOOK FOR IS MUSCLE GAINS AND THAT SEEMS TO BE ALL THAT WE ARE CONCERNED ABOUT, BECAUSE OTHERWISE, WE WOULD HAVE LOW SELF ESTEEM, ETC...

 

[gooey]

well the same for...

numerous supplements out there some that some people on here promote, those do not have many if any longitudinal studies on the negative side effects that it could impose. Creatine for one got a lot of crap because there is no real long study that has shown that it is an ok supplement. Same with others. We know women are prescribed steroid hormones for birth control and mensturation/acne probs. These drugs have shown to protect some women from certain cancers yet put them at a higher risk for others. Now dont get me wrong, the dosage levels of a typical birth control pill is no in anyway a comparison to the amount of androgens numerous athletes use as a performance enhancer. What if we did a little hormone reversal what if estrogen was found to be a very muscular anabolic drug and testosterone was just like estrogen is for women to men. I wonder which would be put on the controlled list then. Its just more contradiction the FDA promotes so many other drugs and those do kill and have shown to cause serious side effects and numerous complications. The simple OTC tylenol if taken in a high dosage causes the liver to die and is a very painful death immediately, but that is ok to sell and if someone over doses owell. I had a pharmacy class 2 years ago and my professor told the class that if the FDA could go back and take aspirin off the market it would have because of the complications and numeorus side effects it has had on people. So why is one evil better then the other? Lastly there are still some medical professions out there, that still believe that androgens have no effect on muscle/protein synthesis, but numerous other studies have shown signifigant muscle mass increase and strength increase. And yes I have a very credible source of a friend who is a professor and a pharm grad if someone wants to question how and why, what an androgen does and effects a cell.
gooey

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Question

numerous supplements out there some that some people on here promote, those do not have many if any longitudinal studies on the negative side effects that it could impose. Creatine for one got a lot of crap because there is no real long study that has shown that it is an ok supplement. Same with others. We know women are prescribed steroid hormones for birth control and mensturation/acne probs. These drugs have shown to protect some women from certain cancers yet put them at a higher risk for others. Now dont get me wrong, the dosage levels of a typical birth control pill is no in anyway a comparison to the amount of androgens numerous athletes use as a performance enhancer. What if we did a little hormone reversal what if estrogen was found to be a very muscular anabolic drug and testosterone was just like estrogen is for women to men. I wonder which would be put on the controlled list then. Its just more contradiction the FDA promotes so many other drugs and those do kill and have shown to cause serious side effects and numerous complications. The simple OTC tylenol if taken in a high dosage causes the liver to die and is a very painful death immediately, but that is ok to sell and if someone over doses owell. I had a pharmacy class 2 years ago and my professor told the class that if the FDA could go back and take aspirin off the market it would have because of the complications and numeorus side effects it has had on people. So why is one evil better then the other? Lastly there are still some medical professions out there, that still believe that androgens have no effect on muscle/protein synthesis, but numerous other studies have shown signifigant muscle mass increase and strength increase. And yes I have a very credible source of a friend who is a professor and a pharm grad if someone wants to question how and why, what an androgen does and effects a cell.
gooey

Who on here said one evil is better than the other? Who said that these guys use this for "performance enhancement"? The amount of drugs sprescribed on here actually MADE THESE GUYS, not enhanced their physique.I am POSITIVE that the amount of stuff you have to use for your show, no one has ever done a study on what it will do for you. Now if you use 200mg of test a week, ok, fine. I highly doubt you use that amount. I, personally, would be more worried SHORT term with the advice you got on the distilled water than the steroid dosages you are on. Those effects at least wont be shown unfortunately for years down the road.

 

[alpha-longhorn]

Who on here said one evil is better than the other? Who said that these guys use this for "performance enhancement"? The amount of drugs sprescribed on here actually MADE THESE GUYS, not enhanced their physique.I am POSITIVE that the amount of stuff you have to use for your show, no one has ever done a study on what it will do for you. Now if you use 200mg of test a week, ok, fine. I highly doubt you use that amount. I, personally, would be more worried SHORT term with the advice you got on the distilled water than the steroid dosages you are on. Those effects at least wont be shown unfortunately for years down the road.

very good post.. yes we know what androgens does.. But we sure as fuck don't know what 10g of test a week and on top of that other bs together would do to us..

 

[gooey]

hahaha

Who on here said one evil is better than the other? Who said that these guys use this for "performance enhancement"? The amount of drugs sprescribed on here actually MADE THESE GUYS, not enhanced their physique.I am POSITIVE that the amount of stuff you have to use for your show, no one has ever done a study on what it will do for you. Now if you use 200mg of test a week, ok, fine. I highly doubt you use that amount. I, personally, would be more worried SHORT term with the advice you got on the distilled water than the steroid dosages you are on. Those effects at least wont be shown unfortunately for years down the road.

stuff I do huh, my little guys pump out 500-600 nangrams of pure endogenous testosterone on a daily basis..... Im a natural bodybuilder Phil I just know how to place my fat cells strategically so I can look like a BBer with muscle though its really chubb

plus 200 grams is about 200 more then your highest level of testosterone hormone level in your average male body. Yes I agree that things of this nature do not show till later in life, but the argument I was stating was that there are other harmful items also that have not been proven by the FDA, something as simple as whey protein has not been approved by the FDA nor have others. Did I strike a nerve my friend, I did not mean to just make statements and arguments cause I luv to debate no offense to u, I hope u didnt take it that way. Much respect Phillacious, and now im going to OD on distuilled water and finish the job hehe
gooey

 

[gooey]

agree

very good post.. yes we know what androgens does.. But we sure as fuck don't know what 10g of test a week and on top of that other bs together would do to us..

but like many things in life increased dosages relate to harmful side effects and possible long term biological malfunctions. There is a that saying if u dont use it u lose it, same with endogenous hormones, through adaptation Im sure if there isnt a need to make FSH and LH to stimulate gonadal function to produce sperm and male hormone testosterone, then it shuts down. Numerous things have harmful effect, something a simple as water logging can have a "electrolyte drowning" effect when too much is taken in and not excreted. Same with vitamins some have drug like effects when taken in large amounts. Pfheww 10 grams of T a week wow, has that been tampered with?
gooey

 

[PHIL HERNON]

200 Grams?

stuff I do huh, my little guys pump out 500-600 nangrams of pure endogenous testosterone on a daily basis..... Im a natural bodybuilder Phil I just know how to place my fat cells strategically so I can look like a BBer with muscle though its really chubb

plus 200 grams is about 200 more then your highest level of testosterone hormone level in your average male body. Yes I agree that things of this nature do not show till later in life, but the argument I was stating was that there are other harmful items also that have not been proven by the FDA, something as simple as whey protein has not been approved by the FDA nor have others. Did I strike a nerve my friend, I did not mean to just make statements and arguments cause I luv to debate no offense to u, I hope u didnt take it that way. Much respect Phillacious, and now im going to OD on distuilled water and finish the job hehe
gooey

Im not upset at you for picking on poor aspirin just because your prof told you that it should be taken off of the marketand maybe your friend really can tell us what a bottle of test will do to each of us. Just be careful, it is all I am saying. Maybe you misread things or are in a rush? Example in point would be the confusion over 200mgs of test which you read as 200 grams.

 

[alpha-longhorn]

but like many things in life increased dosages relate to harmful side effects and possible long term biological malfunctions. There is a that saying if u dont use it u lose it, same with endogenous hormones, through adaptation Im sure if there isnt a need to make FSH and LH to stimulate gonadal function to produce sperm and male hormone testosterone, then it shuts down. Numerous things have harmful effect, something a simple as water logging can have a "electrolyte drowning" effect when too much is taken in and not excreted. Same with vitamins some have drug like effects when taken in large amounts. Pfheww 10 grams of T a week wow, has that been tampered with?
gooey

that's why we don't drink water to the point of "electrolyte drowning" and that's why we don't take vitamins in quantities large enough to be toxic.. We know what those parameters are.. Do we know what 5g of test a week will do to our bodies? probably not..

 

[gooey]

dur

Im not upset at you for picking on poor aspirin just because your prof told you that it should be taken off of the marketand maybe your friend really can tell us what a bottle of test will do to each of us. Just be careful, it is all I am saying. Maybe you misread things or are in a rush? Example in point would be the confusion over 200mgs of test which you read as 200 grams.

patience isnt a virtue that I have sorry, yes mgs u r correct. ur words are always very informal and true Mr. Hernon, and your credible past tell a very good story. When he was here at the university that I go to , he did a study on agression and weight trainers who used and who didnt, the man is a very smart intelligent has a wonderful background in pharmacology and a very unbiased, truthful knowledge base. Dont get me wrong, any drug can have ill effects and certain abused dosages can have very bad consequences that is why I agree with your stance on many things, I just like to debate hehe
gooey

 

[gooey]

sure

that's why we don't drink water to the point of "electrolyte drowning" and that's why we don't take vitamins in quantities large enough to be toxic.. We know what those parameters are.. Do we know what 5g of test a week will do to our bodies? probably not..

but has there been a signifigant cause and effect, clinical study to prove and show how many grams of exogenous steroid hormones that one human can take, 5 or 10 grams is beyond me why any one would take, and have never heard of any person taking that enormous amount of drugs. And to assume that every BBer or athlete is taking that dosage would be a assumption and thats all, yes this area needs to be studied more radically instead of just stereotyped and pushed away. But if there are no conclusive barriers or parameters then why would one not push the envelope and see where they stand alone. Dont get me wrong I dont think any drug should be used and abused, and certain levels of any drug can cause ill effects, and I can agree with your stance that there needs to be a controlled study to prove that this is safe and this is not. Like Phil preaches just be careful and be smart, and healthy
gooey