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If no carns are present.. where will you get the energy to train?

Derek

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If I am on a modified keto diet... eating mostly fats and proteins with a few carbs here and there... where will the energy come from while working out?

Jguns made a point saying you need carbs to workout. Not Fat. So does this make high fat high carbs like Dave Palumbo and Doggcrapp non efficient?

BTW.. what is DC real name. They say Dante but who is that? Gerald Dante??
 
Last edited:
Energy from...

Yuo'll get energy form the free fatty acids floating in the blood stream, liver glycogen, and stored muscle glycogen (though there won't be much of this).

The liver can, through a process called deamination, strip the NH group from amino acids to make a sort of "carb substitute."
 
Sorry...

This was supposed to be in reply to Derek's question about where the energy for training comes form on a low carb intake.
 
FROM DAD

Yuo'll get energy form the free fatty acids floating in the blood stream, liver glycogen, and stored muscle glycogen (though there won't be much of this).

The liver can, through a process called deamination, strip the NH group from amino acids to make a sort of "carb substitute."
 
Derek said:

BTW.. what is DC real name. They say Dante but who is that? Gerald Dante??


actually i would like to know this as well.... i've using his training and greatly improved and i dont even know who to thank :(
 
If your gonna use fatty acids for energy I'd strongly suggest supplementing with Taurine in the 10+ gram range if not already doing so.

IMO EVERYBODY should be doing this.

Works as a sleep aid too.
 
you turn ur body into a fatburning carb storing machine by useing a cyclical or targetedt keto diet
 
ah cmon guys

all that matters in the energy game and weight loss or gain is:

(CALORIES IN) - (CALORIES USED) = catabloic if negative, hypertropy if postive.

Of course making smart nutrients and protein intake is vital to a trainer.

In terms of energy use green tea, yohimbe, ephedrine, tryosine, nootropics, etc... to help booster...
 
BrooklynJuice said:
If your gonna use fatty acids for energy I'd strongly suggest supplementing with Taurine in the 10+ gram range if not already doing so.

IMO EVERYBODY should be doing this.

Works as a sleep aid too.

why? do you have any studies about this?
 
Painful muscle cramps in liver cirrhosis and effects of oral taurine administration
Author
Yamamoto S; Ohmoto K; Ideguchi S; Yamamoto R; Mitsui Y; Shimabara M; Iguchi Y; Ohumi T; Takatori K
Address
Division of Gastroenterology (I), Kawasaki Medical School.
Source
Nippon Shokakibyo Gakkai Zasshi, 91(7):1205 9 1994 Jul
Abstract
We administered 3 g of taurine orally for four weeks to 35 patients suffering from liver cirrhosis with repeated muscle cramp (MC). Improvement of MC was noted in 22 cases (62.9%). We also determined the plasma taurine concentration in eight cases of liver cirrhosis with MC. The plasma taurine concentration before ingestion was 54.1 +/ 20.7 nmol/ml, whereas that of four weeks after ingestion was 125.1 +/ 59.1 nmol/ml, which was significantly elevated by 2.3 fold. As the concentration increased, the frequency of MC decreased, suggesting the good correlation between ingestion and the decrease in frequency of MC. In liver cirrhosis without MC the plasma taurine concentration was 81.0 +/ 16.7 nmol/ml, which was significantly higher than in liver cirrhosis
with MC. In a few cases with taurine ingestion, serial plasma taurine concentrations were detected. Plasma taurine reached the peak value during the first week of ingestion and plasma taurine levels were maintained 2 5 fold higher during ingestion.



Taurine


Taurine, a sulfur containing amino acid derived from the amino acid cystine, is a component of the bile salts produced in the liver (it was first isolated from ox bile). It is important for proper digestion of fats and absorption of fat soluble vitamins. But only a fraction of available taurine is used to make bile salts,2 while an enormous amount floats freely inside cells.

Taurine is not incorporated into proteins but remains free in the tissues, especially muscle and nerve tissues. It has a number of therapeutic uses including acting as a membrane stabilizer and reducing arrhythmias of the heart. Taurine also enhances the contractile strength of heart muscle (called a positive inotropic effect)3, and thus can help treat heart failure which is a decreased ability of the heart to pump out all the blood that flows into it. When the heart is failing, the blood backs up and forces fluid out into the tissues (edema) by osmosis. This leads to either swelling of the legs or fluid in the lungs and shortness of breath, depending on which part of the heart is more involved.

In a 1984 animal study, taurine protected against heart failure, reducing mortality by 80 percent in the taurine treated group with no diminishment of cardiac function.4 In a later animal study in 1988, taurine was shown to lower blood pressure.5 My own clinical experience confirms some of these effects of taurine, and I commonly give it to patients with heart failure and high blood pressure.

Taurine is also beneficial for the eyes enhancing the rods and cones (the pigmented epithelial cells in the retina of the eye that serve as visual receptor cells). The greatest visual acuity occurs in the macular area of the retina near where the optic nerve enters from the back of the eye. With aging, the macula commonly degenerates as rods and cones die, often causing blindness. What causes the degeneration is not clear, but it is more common in diabetics and may be the result of free radical damage from ultraviolet light or oxygen exposure.6

A review of animal studies reveals that taurine appears to protect the eyes from macular degeneration.7 In one 1975 research report, a diet deficient in taurine was associated with retinal degeneration in cats.8 Thus, taurine can be part of a comprehensive approach to macular degeneration that also includes antioxidant nutrients, minerals, flavonoids, botanicals and chelation therapy (an intravenous therapy done in a doctor's office).

Because taurine is a neuroinhibitory amino acid, it may help treat seizure disorders. Some animal studies have suggested a role for taurine in controlling seizures, but the results are not consistent. In 1977, a cat with chronic epileptic seizures was successfully treated with taurine both orally and intravenously.9 Other studies have also suggested taurine's supportive role for seizures, but some clinical trials have shown limited benefits or have not confirmed this effect of taurine. I have used
taurine, in combination with magnesium and other nutrients, in my seizure patients with some success. It seems to enhance the effects of some of their seizure medications so they can take a lower dose.




REFERENCES

1. Linder, M., Ed. Nutritional Biochemistry and Metabolism, 2nd edition, Elsevier Scientific Publishing,
1991.

2. Chesney R.W. "Taurine: Its biological role and clinical implications," Adv Pediatr 32: 1 42, 1985.

3. Pisarenko, O.I. "Mechanisms of myocardial protection by amino acids: Facts and hypotheses," Clin Exp
Pharmacol Physiol 23:) 627 33, August, 1996.

4. Azuma, J., et al. "Beneficial effect of taurine on congestive heart failure induced by chronic aortic
regurgitation in rabbits," Res Commun Chem Pathol Pharmacol 45(2): 261 70, August, 1984.

5. Fujita, T., Sato, Y. "Hypotensive effect of taurine. Possible involvement of the sympathetic nervous system
and endogenous opiates," J Clin Invest 82(3): 993 97. September 1988.

6. Gaby, A.R., Wright, J.V. "Nutritional factors in degenerative eye disorders: Cataract and macular
degeneration," J Adv Med 6(1): 27 4O, Spring 1993.

7. Chesney, R.W. op. cit.

8. Hayes, K.C., Carey, R.E., et al. "Retinal degeneration associated with taurine deficiency in the cat,"
Science l88(4191): 949 51, May 30, 1975.

9. van Gelder, N.M., Koyama, I., et al. "Taurine treatment of spontaneous chronic epilepsy in a cat,"
Epilepsia 18(1): 45 54, March, 1977.

10. Pola, P., et al. "Statistical evaluation of long term L carnitine therapy in hyperlipoproteinaemias," Drugs
Exptl Clin Res 9: 925 34, 1983.

11. Orlando, G., Rusconi, C. "Oral L carnitine in the treatment of chronic cardiac ischaemia in elderly
patients," Clin Trials J 23: 338 44, 1986.

12. Singh, R.B., Niaz, M.A., et al. "A randomised, double blind, placebo controlled trial of L carnitine in
suspected acute myocardial infarction," Postgrad Med J 72(843): 45 50, January 1996.

13. Kobayashi, A., Watanabe, H., et al. "Effects of L carnitine and palmitoylcarnitine on membrane fluidity of

human erythrocytes," Biochim Biophys Acta 986(1): 83 8. Nov. 17, 1989.

14. Ghidini, O., Azzurro, M., et al. "Evaluation of the therapeutic efficacy of L carnitine in congestive heart
failure," Int J Clin Pharmacol Ther Toxicol 26(4): 217 20, April l988.

15. Dragan, I.G., Vasiliu A., et al. "Studies concerning chronic and acute effects of L carnitina in elite
athletes" Physiologie 26(2): 111 29, April June, 1989.

Taurine is the most abundant free amino acid in the brain, heart, and nervous system, and it plays a role in the normal functioning of the brain, heart, gallbladder, eyes, and vascular system. It facilitates the passage of sodium, potassium, and, possibly, calcium and magnesium, ions into and
out of cells, and electrically stabalizes cell membranes. It modulates the activity the activity of cAMP, which activates important enzymes in heary muscle, and contributes to the muscle's contractibility. Taurine is an important component of bile acids which aid in the absorption of fat soluble vitamins. It aids the body's chemistry by detoxifying harmful chemicals. Dietary taurine stimulates the formation of taurocholate, a substance which increases cholesterol secretion in the bile and also improves fat metabolism in the liver. Taurine offers a wide range of nutritional support to many organ systems throughout the body; as a supplement it is most notable known for
its heart muscle support.
 
This study finds taurine to be beneficial in preventing arteriosclerosis.

http://www.nandotimes.com/healthscience/story/704565p-5201819c.html

Excerpt:

"When blood vessels are exposed to cigarette smoke, it causes the vessels to
behave like a rigid pipe rather than a flexible tube, and thus the vessels
can't dilate in response to increased blood flow," said Dr. David
Bouchier-Hayes, senior author of the study involving vitamin C and fish,
published in Circulation: Journal of the American Heart Association. He is a
professor of surgery at the Royal College of Surgeons in Dublin, Ireland.

This progressive inflexibility is one of the earliest signs of hardening of
the arteries, a major cause of heart attacks and stroke.
...
His team recruited 15 healthy smokers aged 20 to 37 and a control group of
15 healthy non-smokers. The smokers were given either two grams a day of
vitamin C for five days or 1.5 grams of taurine, the amino acid from fish,
for five days. They then waited for two weeks and switched treatments.

The researchers used a test of blood vessel function that takes ultrasound
images of blood vessel diameter in the arm after a tourniquet is placed on
the forearm. The better the blood vessel expands once flow is restored, the
better its flexible function.

Test subjects were measured before the supplements were given, and again
after each series of treatment.

At the start of the experiment, the average diameter of the non-smokers'
blood vessel was 3.39 millimeters, vs. 3.33 for the smokers. After the
tourniquet was released, that measure went up to 3.7 mm in non-smokers, but
increased to just 3.36 mm in the smokers.

When they took vitamin C, the smokers' average improved to 3.45 mm in the
test, and when given taurine, the smokers' vessel response was virtually the
same as the non-smokers, averaging 3.7 mm.

Taurine is found in many foods, but is most abundant in all types of fish,
including white fish, Bouchier-Hayes said. The amount used in the study is
equivalent to that found in a typical fish entree.
 
Nutr Hosp 2002 Nov-Dec;17(6):262-70 Links


Taurine: a conditionally essential amino acid in humans? An overview in health and disease.

Lourenco R, Camilo ME.




"...taurine has a unique chemical structure that implies important physiological functions: bile acid conjugation and cholestasis prevention, antiarrhythmic/inotropic/chronotropic effects, central nervous system neuromodulation, retinal development and function, endocrine/metabolic effects and antioxidant/antiinflammatory properties..."
 
Taurine is an inhibitory neurotransmitter that actsas modulator of the hypothalamic release of do-pamine and GABA [5].

5] Arias P, H Jarry, V Convertini, M Ginzburg, WWuttke; J Moguilevsky: Changes in mediobasalhypothalamic dopamine and GABA release:possi-ble mechanism underlying taurine-induced prolac-tin secretion. Amino Acids 15 (1998)

http://www.thewayup.com/newsletters/011500.htm

Taurine is an amino acid which plays a major role in the brain as an "inhibitory" neurotransmitter & neuromodulator. It is similiar in structure to the amino acids GABA & L-Glycine, which are also neuroinhibitory. This means it helps to calm or stabilize an excited brain.

Taurine stabilizes nerve cell membranes thus depressing the firing of brain cells & dampening the nerve cell action of the excitatory amino acids, glutamate, aspartate, & quinolinate.

Taurine acts by regulating the sodium & potassium concentration in the cells & the magnesium level between the cells. This has everything to do with the electrical activity of the cells & subsequent communication between cells.

By this mechanism, it has anti-anxiety & anti-convulsant activity. It has also been found useful in some cases of migraine, insomnia, agitation, restlessness, irritability, alcoholism, obsessions, depression, hypomania/mania.

Dosage is from 500 mg twice daily to a total of 5000 mg daily in 3-4 divided doses, though I rarely recommend that high a dose. The total ideal body pool of taurine for adults is 12,000- 18,000 mg.

Since taurine also affects the hypothalamus to help regulate body temperature, a higher dose can decrease your temperature & give chilliness, so be aware of that.

Taurine also plays a role in memory & increases the level of a memory neurotransmitter, acetylcholine, in the brain (in animal studies).


And here for your High Bp and fatness!

CARDIOVASCULAR: Taurine is the most abundant amino acid in the heart, a particularly electrically excitable tissue, as are the brain & eye. Since taurine participates in electrical stabilization of the cell membranes & the normal regulation of nerve-muscle interaction, it is useful in heart irregularities & mitral valve prolapse, acting similarly to a calcium channel blocker (a class of drugs used in CV Disease) Taurine also helps control high blood pressure & is useful in congestive heart failure.

DIABETES: Taurine affects carbohydrate metabolism. It potentiates the effect of insulin, enhances glucose utilization & glycogen (stored glucose) synthesis.

FAT METABOLISM: Taurine reduces cholesterol by forming bile acids which are the end products of cholesterol breakdown & are the only route for eliminating cholesterol from the body. This action requires a functioning gall bladder. Taurine has an inhibitory effect on the formation of cholesterol gall stones. It is required for efficient fat absorption & solubilization. It is helpful in states of fat malabsorption such as with cystic fibrosis & other pancreatic deficiency syndromes.
 
**broken link removed**

In addition, consider adding the amino acidlike compound GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid); low GABA levels seem to be linked to seizures. For some people, taurine, another amino acid, may be an acceptable substitute for GABA. Taurine acts somewhat like GABA in that it has been shown to prevent brain cell overactivity. Taurine may also reduce seizure activity by increasing levels of GABA in the brain.


Taurine helps maintain a steady and even heart beat, by helping to regulate the concentration of calcium ions.*3,4,7 It increases calcium concentration in the heart when plasma calcium is low and protects against calcium overload when calcium is abundant.*4

Taurine also functions as a neuroregulator and nerve cell growth factor.*1,2,5 It promotes a calming effect by inhibiting the release of norepinephrine and acetylcholine, and stimulating the release of gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA).*5 Taurine increases the production of serotonin and melatonin by stimulating the activity of N-acetyltransferase, resulting in normalization of sleep and nerve functioning.*3,5
 
Taurine induced NO production lowers cholesterol and dialtes veins too..

a few studies:

Quote:

Age-related progressive renal fibrosis in rats and its prevention with ACE inhibitors and taurine
Carmen Iglesias-De La Cruz1, Piedad Ruiz-Torres1, Raimundo García del Moral3, Manuel Rodríguez-Puyol1, and Diego Rodríguez-Puyol2,4
Departments of 1 Physiology and 2 Medicine, Alcalá University, Madrid; 3 Department of Pathology, Granada University, 18012 Granada; and 4 Nephrology Section, Hospital Príncipe de Asturias, 28871 Alcalá de Heuares, Madrid, Spain

Our previous studies demonstrated an increased reactive oxygen species (ROS) production, as well as transforming growth factor-1 (TGF-1) expression in the rat kidney with aging. In the present study, we examined the effect of aging on extracellular matrix (ECM) accumulation and the effects of treatment with angiotensin-converting enzyme inhibitors (captopril and lisinopril) and taurine, an antioxidant amino acid. Age-related increases in types I and IV collagen and fibronectin mRNA expression were found at 24 and 30 mo of age. In contrast, type III collagen only increased in 30-mo-old rats. Captopril-, lisinopril-, and taurine-treated animals showed a statistically significant decrease in ECM protein expression at both ages. Moreover, treatment with taurine reduced the TGF-1 mRNA levels in 24- and 30-mo-old rats by 40%. Taurine also completely blocked increases in type I and type IV collagen expression in mesangial cells in response to TGF-1. Our results demonstrate a protective role from both converting enzyme inhibitors and taurine in the age-related progressive renal sclerosis. In addition, taking into account that taurine is considered as an antioxidant amino acid, present data suggest a role for ROS in age-related progressive renal fibrosis, perhaps through interactions with the TGF-1 pathway.



Quote:

Inhibition of hypertension and salt intake by oral taurine treatment in hypertensive rats.

Abe M, Shibata K, Matsuda T, Furukawa T.

Department of Pharmacology, School of Medicine, Fukuoka University, Japan.

Effects of oral treatment with taurine on fluid intakes produced by renin were assessed in spontaneously hypertensive rats of the Okamoto strain (SHR). Renin injected into the preoptic area increased water intake and evoked salt (2.7% NaCl solution) intake, and angiotensin II injected into this area increased water intake, but not salt intake, in both SHR and control normotensive Wistar-Kyoto rats (WKY). The salt intake elicited by renin, but not water intake produced by renin or angiotensin II, was potentiated in SHR. These effects of renin and angiotensin II on fluid intakes were antagonized by previous administration of taurine or gamma-aminobutyric acid into the cerebral ventricles in both strains. When SHR received water containing 3% taurine from 32 to 105 days of age, development of hypertension was inhibited. Renin administered into the preoptic area at 105 days of age caused an increase in salt intake, but the increase was markedly inhibited by the oral administration of taurine as well. These results show that salt appetite produced by centrally administered renin is exaggerated in SHR and that development of hypertension as well as renin-induced salt appetite in SHR is inhibited by dietary taurine.




Quote:
Taurine ameliorates chronic streptozocin-induced diabetic nephropathy in rats
H. Trachtman, S. Futterweit, J. Maesaka, C. Ma, E. Valderrama, A. Fuchs, A. A. Tarectecan, P. S. Rao, J. A. Sturman, T. H. Boles and al. et
Department of Pediatrics, Schneider Children's Hospital, Long Island Jewish Medical Center, Albert Einstein College of Medicine, New Hyde Park, New York 11040, USA.

We examined the effect of two endogenous antioxidant agents, taurine and vitamin E, on renal function in experimental diabetes. Male Sprague-Dawley rats, rendered diabetic with streptozocin (STZ), were assigned to one of the following groups: 1) untreated; 2) insulin treatment with 6 U Ultralente insulin/day in two doses; 3) taurine supplementation by 1% taurine in drinking water; and 4) vitamin E supplementation at 100 IU vitamin E/kg chow. Animals were kept for 52 wk. The survival rate was similar (70-90%) in all groups except vitamin E-treated animals, of which 84% died by 6 mo. At 52 wk, glomerular filtration rate was elevated in untreated and taurine-treated STZ rats compared with normal or insulin-treated diabetic rats. Taurine supplementation reduced total proteinuria and albuminuria by nearly 50%. This treatment also prevented glomerular hypertrophy, preserved immunohistochemical staining for type IV collagen in glomeruli, and diminished glomerulosclerosis and tubulointerstitial fibrosis in diabetic animals. The changes in renal function and structure in taurine-treated diabetic rats were associated with normalization of renal cortical malondialdehyde content, lowering of serum free Fe2+ concentration, and decreased formation of the advanced glycooxidation products, pentosidine, and fluorescence in skin collagen. Administration of the vitamin E-enriched diet exacerbated the nephropathy in STZ-diabetic rats. In addition, vitamin E supplementation increased serum free Fe2+ concentration, enhanced renal lipid peroxidation, and accelerated the accumulation of advanced glycosylation end products (AGEs) in skin collagen. We conclude that administration of taurine, but not vitamin E, to rats with STZ-diabetes ameliorates diabetic nephropathy. The beneficial effect of taurine is related to reduced renal oxidant injury with decreased lipid peroxidation and less accumulation of AGEs within the kidney.
 
to answer your first question Derek, Im Dante no relation to Gerard Dente of New Jersey and MHP supplements
 
DOGGCRAPP said:
to answer your first question Derek, Im Dante no relation to Gerard Dente of New Jersey and MHP supplements

ya think i got the taurine covered? :p
 
12 more medline articles and I think your in like flynn with taurine Brook
 

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