IGF 78 on 5.4iu genotropin... seems I got scammed.

[Josefein421]

I have been dieting hard and introduced pharma GH from the beginning. I worked up to 5.4iu/day split and just didn't get the magical response (or any noticeable response) so I even upped it to 7iu/day for a few weeks.

No super full feeling, no big weight drops/shredding, pumps unchanged... decreased but I thought that was just low carbs... and no negative sides like increased heart rate, CTS or increased BP that I had in the past on generic. I just couldn't shake the suspicion so I had labs drawn...

10iu IM 46min before draw (they got me back way faster than I planned). Also on 5.4iu genotropin for 3-4 months now aside from about a month at 7iu

Results
GH serum- 15.5 < 7.1)
IGF- 78 (52-328)

Seems like it's faked w a ghrp maybe bc I'm getting some bump post inject

Here's the thing... contrast this to 4iu/ day TP black. Same protocol for testing...

Results
GH serum- 16.8
IGF- 411

So I scored higher on serum and WAY higher IGF on 1.4iu LESS from TP than "pharma".

If this is accurate I'm furious in part because the source and using pharma exclusively was pushed and provided by my coach.

Thoughts??

 

[danieltx]

This is why we tell guys to go with generics over pharma - these days you're much more likely to get fake GH with pharma rather than generics. If someone pushes pharma GH on you they almost always have an ulterior and likely not good motive.

 

[TheSteamboat]

Is your coach by chance Phil Viz?

 

[Josefein421]

This is why we tell guys to go with generics over pharma - these days you're much more likely to get fake GH with pharma rather than generics. If someone pushes pharma GH on you they almost always have an ulterior and likely not good motive.

Fuck man. So you agree w what the labs are showing?

I have lost all trust in my coach than and idk if I want to continue w him.

Flips my stomach. Not that I wasn't getting the benefit I should have I mean I know it would help but would I be night and day difference? Probably not but the fact I trusted guidance, PAID for that guidance, and then was deceived.

Even if not intentional when you refer and vouch for someone that's your rep and name on the line now. What else can't be trusted...

 

[Josefein421]

Is your coach by chance Phil Viz?

No. I saw Sebastian had the issue. I have used that person before but not for GH...

 

[TheSteamboat]

No. I saw Sebastian had the issue. I have used that person before but not for GH...

Interesting. I just know he pushes his source on his people, and I’ve known multiple people to have issues with his GH so thought I’d ask.

 

[Gunsmith]

Id say its 100% fake.
For what quality generics cost from TP i can see any reason to spend what pharmacy cost

 

[Josefein421]

So many say there is such a drastic difference specially with lipolysis. I wanted to say at least tried

I'm livid because trusted the coaches vouch and referral and it cost me thousands of dollars and I feel like I cheated. Out of progress.

Like I have no desire to continue working with him

 

[cage99]

That sucks my man… Sounds sketchy to me and as always TP for the win yet again… Personally once I get fucked over I’m done with that person whether intentional or not.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Cage

 

[slesh]

Scam city

 

[danieltx]

Fuck man. So you agree w what the labs are showing?

I have lost all trust in my coach than and idk if I want to continue w him.

Flips my stomach. Not that I wasn't getting the benefit I should have I mean I know it would help but would I be night and day difference? Probably not but the fact I trusted guidance, PAID for that guidance, and then was deceived.

Even if not intentional when you refer and vouch for someone that's your rep and name on the line now. What else can't be trusted...

You shouldn't trust the coach and unless he's peaked you incredibly well before you shouldn't continue with him.

Regarding your labs, Jay-Z famously said, 'Men lie, women lie, numbers don't.' The only reason you'd have an IGF reading so low other than fake GH is if you had some serious liver issue which you'd likely have symptoms of.

When guys like Jay Cutler push pharma GH realize that when they were competing that's all there was for quality products. Nowadays it's not like that. Jonathan Withers has said he only uses generic GH, Justin Compton has said he only used generic GH when he was competing, and I'm sure many other modern pro bodybuilders are the same. While I'm nowhere near that level all the regular members here have seen how far I've taken my physique and I've done it only using generic GH.

Pushing pharma AAS or GH should be a big red flag with any coach. There's a coach here in Texas who tells guys that if they can't get pharma GH they shouldn't use any GH, period. Anyone who still believe shit like that deserves to be taken advantage of.

I'll finish this post with another famous quote (I'm probably paraphrasing), this one from Machiavelli - 'A master of deception will always find someone willing to be deceived.'

 

[Fleezy]

Name supplier and the coach

 

[Elvia1023]

No thoughts on your exact situation I will just state in a general sense that is very possible. It's the liver that converts to IGF-1 so a low IGF-1 score doesn't mean your HGH is definitely fake. A number of factors/issues can result in a low IGF-1 score. I have seen guys with 100 IGF-1 on large doses of legit hgh (pharma or generic). Then comes the serum and that is more of an indication in many ways but that can also be misleading especially when there is no prior bloodwork to reference.

If someone saw 15 they may think underdosed or fake etc but you scored similarly on the blacks. If you had 5 past serums on different brands all in the 30-40's then that (both numbers) would be conclusive (numbers don't lie). However sometimes numbers can be misinterpreted. So there is a chance your hgh is real so don't think you have 100% been scammed. I would guess (most are) it's fake but there is still a chance you haven't been ripped off. I would recommend sending a vial off to be lab tested.

 

[rAJJIN]

It shouldn’t be an issue with the coach but more so the supplier? Unless they’re the same or he was suggested.

 

[g.r.o.w.t.h.]

Name supplier and the coach

This… I never understood why it was taboo to out the scammer. It is possible that the coach didn’t know, so I can maybe understand sparing the coach, but out the supplier. Might save a lot of us the heartache you are going through now.

 

[Elvia1023]

Just adding I also cringe when I see certain coaches tell people if someone is recommending generic hgh to you they can't be trusted and to run away because only pharm is worth using. Yet these same guys will pump themselves and their clients full of generic everything but HGH has to be fake and they know because their source has pharm hgh and it's so difficult to make Anyone who has used both will know the truth. Saying that they won't because placebo effects are a very real thing and guys love their fancy pharm packaging.

I would guess at least 75% of the pharm products you get online are fake and you have guys using them feeling they are superior. Geno used to sell some but he stopped because he would receive samples to test before bulk ordering and the pharm test e was test c etc etc so he stopped bothering. Most have active compound in they are just not made by the pharm company so the deca or the hgh will test "real" but it's probably not dosed correctly and it's not made where people think it is. Think of the fake designer clothing brands in Turkey and China etc and how you get "good" fakes that look the part it is just the same because they know if they put a Genotropin label on it they can sell it for 5x the price.

 

[Elvia1023]

This… I never understood why it was taboo to out the scammer. It is possible that the coach didn’t know, so I can maybe understand sparing the coach, but out the supplier. Might save a lot of us the heartache you are going through now.

I also think people are jumping on the IGF-1 and thinking he has 100% been scammed and that is not the case. It's not so black and white. If his serum was 3 and the igf-1 the same then 100% he has been scammed. His HGH serum is similar to what it was on blacks with a similar dosing plan. We don't even know if he was counting the blacks as 10iu or 15iu because the are consistently overdosed. The point is a 15 serum is not fake hgh. Yes GHRP-6/2 can score that but it's rare. Pharm HGH could also score a 15 on a hgh serum too. I have seen guys using legit hgh (pharm and generic) score 15 many times when using 10iu 3 hours before testing. Most of them tend to score similarly on multiple brands (low responders) whereas others can score 5x higher on the same brand/dose.

As it stands he has 2 HGH tests and both are around 15 on the gh serum. It's the IGF-1 score that is much lower and whilst that number is an indication of hgh quality it's not concrete evidence it is fake. Again I actually think it's probably "fake pharm hgh" but that's besides the point. We can't use those lab results as definite proof his coach and/or his supplier has scammed him. Too many jump on a low score and they want blood. I would get a vial lab tested and that would tell him many things.

 

[Josefein421]

Yes the coach gave me the contact info for the source. "Has Olympia guys, I use him" etc. and "Generic is trash. If you can use pharma don't use any. Morph's physiques"

And I got nothing. Benefit or sides. I just knew something was up.

CaN I trust the oils? CaN I trust the OTC supplements I bought he recommended? The anavar that females are using on this vouch... isn't real? Can I trust him being genuine or taking me serious or what?

 

[bbxtreme]

Not ONE coach I’ve worked with has EVER given me source suggestions or even tried. And I’ve worked with and am now, the best.

If a coach is pushing their gear source it means they have something to benefit from it, which is fine as long as they disclose that and are willing to be called out in these cases. It’s why I don’t have any affiliations in this sport like that. Prefer to remain objective.

Now with that said, the best lesson for anyone to gain from this is that you don’t get items in this industry unless they’re an approved sponsor on this board. Hasn’t failed me since 2007 since I’ve been here… just sayin.

 

[qbkilla]

Could be a blessing in disguise. If he knowingly hooked you up with fakes have to consider how much effort Is he putting into your coaching? Maybe best that you found this out and can move on.