Interesting Article on Winstrol by Anthony Roberts

[xcelbeyond]

http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/anthony-roberts/winstrol-oral-versus-injectable.htm

 

[Sesshomaru]

After threads like these on various forums, Ive learned to take his writings with a grain of salt:

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?p=472836
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showt...hp?t=134238595

 

[anthony roberts]

After threads like these on various forums, Ive learned to take his writings with a grain of salt:

http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showthread.php?p=472836
http://forum.mesomorphosis.com/showt...hp?t=134238595

Alot of people simply don't like me, and they attack my articles. Those people, it needs to be noted, don't know that the fuck they're talking about. One of the main guys who was attacking me on Meso was recently removed from moderator status, for his mental instability.

As for taking what I say with a grain of salt, you don't ever have to take my "word" for it. I've always included references with my articles. Unfortunately, people aren't too great at looking at the references, so as of late, I've really cleaned up my reference style to include full journal citations, authors names, etc...I went so far as to include a full-time editor on the last e-book I wrote, specifically to clean up references and fact check.

I don't know of any "bro's" who post on the internet who have taken things that far, and I think that the criticisms of my work, re: my references weren't valid before- but now they're just absurd.

 

[Magnum]

Why are you assuming that using winstrol to lower SHGB levels to free up test is going to enhance the effectiveness of other steroids? Also, freeing up natuarl test levels (assuming this is what you are referring to) imo is a mute point for someone who is injecting 250 to 1000 mg or more per week of test. Also, assumning that oral winny does increase the effectiveness of other drugs then which ones would they be and does it pertain to orals and or injectables?

"As you can surmise, a very large portion of the testosterone in your body is bound to SHBG. Wouldn’t it be great if we could lower SHBG? With Winstrol we can. "

So does SHBG bind to naturally produced test or any totaly amount that is in the body? I would assume that your body can only produce so much SHBG. If these studies were done on healthy adult males who were not taking exogenous test then I don't see the point in lowering SHBG if a bodybuilder is taking high amounts of test? I see some of the points that you are trying to make, just wanting to understand them in more depth. Thanks

 

[KillerStack]

I don't see the point in lowering SHBG if a bodybuilder is taking high amounts of test? I see some of the points that you are trying to make, just wanting to understand them in more depth. Thanks

Exogenous testosterone lowers SHBG in dose dependent manner (as do most AAS,or all, I'm not 100% sure, it's just that some, like Winstrol, are particularly effective in doing this), contrary to popular belief. So I don't see much of a point in trying to lower it even further.

 

[anthony roberts]

Exogenous testosterone lowers SHBG in dose dependent manner (as do most AAS,or all, I'm not 100% sure, it's just that some, like Winstrol, are particularly effective in doing this), contrary to popular belief. So I don't see much of a point in trying to lower it even further.

Not many will lower it by nearly 50% with such a low dose, as we see with winstrol. The point is that winstrol does it better than other steroids do, and with a dose that literally will cost a few cents a day.

The lower your SHBG, the higher your free test levels are, and free testosterone levels are highly and positively correlated with increased muscle mass.

 

[Magnum]

Not many will lower it by nearly 50% with such a low dose, as we see with winstrol. The point is that winstrol does it better than other steroids do, and with a dose that literally will cost a few cents a day.

The lower your SHBG, the higher your free test levels are, and free testosterone levels are highly and positively correlated with increased muscle mass.

Could you please address my questions? Thanks

 

[G.E.R.M]

..

what is the difference in shbg reduction between winstrol and proviron..

i seem to see major differences by adding proviron over winstrol

 

[BigBoyJ]

Well, all I know is winstrol cripples me so it doesn't matter what it does if I can't train or move when I take it.

 

[Massive G]

No thanks I'll pass.

Winstrol is murder on the joints and cholesterol levels.

 

[IronMike]

...

Not many will lower it by nearly 50% with such a low dose, as we see with winstrol. The point is that winstrol does it better than other steroids do, and with a dose that literally will cost a few cents a day.

The lower your SHBG, the higher your free test levels are, and free testosterone levels are highly and positively correlated with increased muscle mass.

As Magnum says though, isn't this irrelevant for someone introducing exogenous test? And if the winstrol dose and method you're talking about related to endog only, then would the winstrol dose be enough to limit natural test production thereby ruling out any benefits (being that the winstrol dose isn't high enough for any benefits on its own)?

IronMike

 

[badham]

If you could get test levels to pre AAS admin levels...the effects would not be noticable IMHO. For anyone 30+ the natural number is so low as to not really be a factor when compared to Exogenous test. So while the hypothesis that winstrol may do this is interesting....in the real world I dont see how it would really enhance gains which is what I assume we are after.


badham

 

[Ashop]

Big fan of both oral and injectable Winstrol. Good read.

 

[KillerStack]

what is the difference in shbg reduction between winstrol and proviron..

i seem to see major differences by adding proviron over winstrol

Winstrol lowers SHBG, Proviron binds to SHBG preferentially (doesn't lower levels per se).

As Magnum says though, isn't this irrelevant for someone introducing exogenous test? And if the winstrol dose and method you're talking about related to endog only, then would the winstrol dose be enough to limit natural test production thereby ruling out any benefits (being that the winstrol dose isn't high enough for any benefits on its own)?

IronMike

Well, Winstrol would lower SHBG so it wouldn't bind as much of the injected test = you'd get more out of you exo-test. If this is a worthwhile use of Winstrol, I don't know.

 

[anthony roberts]

As Magnum says though, isn't this irrelevant for someone introducing exogenous test? And if the winstrol dose and method you're talking about related to endog only, then would the winstrol dose be enough to limit natural test production thereby ruling out any benefits (being that the winstrol dose isn't high enough for any benefits on its own)?

IronMike

NO. SHBG binds to testosterone, not just endogenous. You can limit this by lowering it with winstrol.

And yeah, I prefer proviron to winstrol as well, but the article explained the differences between injectable winstrol and oral, especially because this is important for women...while proviron is only an oral, it doesn't have this distinction of seperate uses. The focus of the article was the difference between oral and injectable winstrol, and how you can use them for different results. The critique here amounts to "But couldn't you use something else?" or whatever....which isn't really addressable.

:Could you please address my questions? Thanks

I did. Less SHBG = more muscle mass. Winstrol lowers SHBG better than most steroids. Less SHBG + Other steroids = less bound testosterone. Are we working on the (incorrect) assumption that SHBG only binds to endogenous testosterone? I hope not...

If you could get test levels to pre AAS admin levels...the effects would not be noticable IMHO. For anyone 30+ the natural number is so low as to not really be a factor when compared to Exogenous test. So while the hypothesis that winstrol may do this is interesting....in the real world I dont see how it would really enhance gains which is what I assume we are after.


badham

I'm still 28, old man. Glad to see you're still kickin'.

 

[IronMike]

NO. SHBG binds to testosterone, not just endogenous. You can limit this by lowering it with winstrol.

And yeah, I prefer proviron to winstrol as well, but the article explained the differences between injectable winstrol and oral, especially because this is important for women...while proviron is only an oral, it doesn't have this distinction of seperate uses. The focus of the article was the difference between oral and injectable winstrol, and how you can use them for different results. The critique here amounts to "But couldn't you use something else?" or whatever....which isn't really addressable.




I did. Less SHBG = more muscle mass. Winstrol lowers SHBG better than most steroids. Less SHBG + Other steroids = less bound testosterone. Are we working on the (incorrect) assumption that SHBG only binds to endogenous testosterone? I hope not...




I'm still 28, old man. Glad to see you're still kickin'.

How much SHBG can be produced though (I don't know)? Is it infite or is there a point at which the T is present in too high a dose?

Could you give a very rough estimate on the potentiating effect of this ie 10% more free test? I might be a guinea pig in my next coming up. IronMike

 

[LMR]

that's a good read

 

[badham]

NO. SHBG binds to testosterone, not just endogenous. You can limit this by lowering it with winstrol.

And yeah, I prefer proviron to winstrol as well, but the article explained the differences between injectable winstrol and oral, especially because this is important for women...while proviron is only an oral, it doesn't have this distinction of seperate uses. The focus of the article was the difference between oral and injectable winstrol, and how you can use them for different results. The critique here amounts to "But couldn't you use something else?" or whatever....which isn't really addressable.




I did. Less SHBG = more muscle mass. Winstrol lowers SHBG better than most steroids. Less SHBG + Other steroids = less bound testosterone. Are we working on the (incorrect) assumption that SHBG only binds to endogenous testosterone? I hope not...




I'm still 28, old man. Glad to see you're still kickin'.

Me and the rocks are still around. Plus I am older the 30 something too...lol Your therom I assume is accurate....I just dont see what the real world benefit would be?? By freeing up such a small amount of natural test, is it really a benefit....or is there a part of this hypothesis I am missing. I dont believe you are implying that it help the uptake of more exogenous test at the AR, are you??? If so, that would certainly be worth further investigating.

badham