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Is Cardio really that essential??

Lenny

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Okay, I am prepping and have just under 20 days left. I feel like since I have increased my cardio that my weight training has suffered at this point in my prepping. My damn legs are always worn out and really my weight is stagnant since I have increased my cardio! I think making the necessary adjustments alone with my diet could have got me to the point I am at now, but I felt the need to increase cardio too! I have always done cardio, but never did much more than 30 minutes per session, now I do anywhere from 45min - 75min per session and my body seems to just be holding the condition!

Do you any of you taper down on cardio as you get closer to the competition, if so, when? What are your thoughts on cardio during precontest? I know it is all an individual thing, but still just like to hear how people do things.

I plan on sticking this week out with my cardio plan, but will reduce about 10 days out.
 
Okay, I am prepping and have just under 20 days left. I feel like since I have increased my cardio that my weight training has suffered at this point in my prepping. My damn legs are always worn out and really my weight is stagnant since I have increased my cardio! I think making the necessary adjustments alone with my diet could have got me to the point I am at now, but I felt the need to increase cardio too! I have always done cardio, but never did much more than 30 minutes per session, now I do anywhere from 45min - 75min per session and my body seems to just be holding the condition!

Do you any of you taper down on cardio as you get closer to the competition, if so, when? What are your thoughts on cardio during precontest? I know it is all an individual thing, but still just like to hear how people do things.

I plan on sticking this week out with my cardio plan, but will reduce about 10 days out.

This is probably going to not answer the question quite right but i do whatever the person running my prep tells me:D The majority of my success has been with 30 minutes of cardio ED in the morning. It seems to work great for me but everyone is different.
 
This is probably going to not answer the question quite right but i do whatever the person running my prep tells me:D The majority of my success has been with 30 minutes of cardio ED in the morning. It seems to work great for me but everyone is different.

Yeah...I just think I completely hate cardio at this point! I just want to save the calories I do have for the weights and not waste them on the cardio, but I felt I needed to increase my cardio, more mental than anything. But, either way I think cardio has its place, but I think we put too much emphasis on it during prep time, instead of the whole eating side of it. I have always done it, but never this much of it (well I did run cross country for the longest time at one point in my life).
 
I was a huge fan of cardio until I realized that I was leaning MUCH quicker and holding much more muscle without it... all those years lost on the boring treadmill... :( :eek:

I have to give props to Phil... he made me change my mind on this one... like everyone else I was caught in the "you gotta do cardio to lose bf" intense propaganda we hear everywhere.

Intelligent diet/weight training & patience is all you really need. At least for my body and IMHO... :)
 
I was a huge fan of cardio until I realized that I was leaning MUCH quicker and holding much more muscle without it... all those years lost on the boring treadmill... :( :eek:

I have to give props to Phil... he made me change my mind on this one... like everyone else I was caught in the "you gotta do cardio to lose bf" intense propaganda we hear everywhere.

Intelligent diet/weight training & patience is all you really need. At least for my body and IMHO... :)

X2

No reason to ever lose any muscle or strength when leaning out. Cardio is for the health of your heart, not for getting leaner.
 
I was a huge fan of cardio until I realized that I was leaning MUCH quicker and holding much more muscle without it... all those years lost on the boring treadmill... :( :eek:

I have to give props to Phil... he made me change my mind on this one... like everyone else I was caught in the "you gotta do cardio to lose bf" intense propaganda we hear everywhere.

Intelligent diet/weight training & patience is all you really need. At least for my body and IMHO... :)

x3 as I'm under Phil and it works for me as well
 
So guys, are we saying you do not perform any cardio at all or just very little. I totally agree that cardio pure calorie burning, not bodyfat burning! The only thing is wouldn't calories have to be low in order not to do any cardio. I eat my meals when I am hungry and that is very, very often...I end up with about 2,500 calories per day, sometimes less, sometimes per more! The more cardio I do, the more hungry I am...damn it!

I think it is very interesting on peoples take on cardio, it is such sling shot between different people. Speaking of hunger, I am hungry again:eek:
 
So guys, are we saying you do not perform any cardio at all or just very little. I totally agree that cardio pure calorie burning, not bodyfat burning! The only thing is wouldn't calories have to be low in order not to do any cardio. I eat my meals when I am hungry and that is very, very often...I end up with about 2,500 calories per day, sometimes less, sometimes per more! The more cardio I do, the more hungry I am...damn it!

I think it is very interesting on peoples take on cardio, it is such sling shot between different people. Speaking of hunger, I am hungry again:eek:

Cardio is for the health of your heart. As far as when to do this cardio and how long you need to do that....well I'll leave that to Phil to answer...but I will tell you that it is all you need and it is not that much!
 
Lenny, look at my avatar, I was really conditioned for that show and I didn't do any cardio at all. But, I rather do 30 minutes of cardio and eat more, just my .02.
 
Lenny, look at my avatar, I was really conditioned for that show and I didn't do any cardio at all. But, I rather do 30 minutes of cardio and eat more, just my .02.

Exactly Pesty, I think I am doing cardio just to eat a bit more each day! The only thing I actually look forward to is my one lightly salted rice cake with 1-2 tbspn of natty PB on it and feel like I need to do cardio to eat it (again, a mental thing with me). Besides that I have kept my carbs below 60 grams per day for almost 30 days now and having one clean refeed day every 7 days of about 200-250 grams of carbs from white rice (I love white rice with a passion:D) and some light popcorn. I did have that one RELOAD meal several weeks back that actually did wonders to breaking me thru the wall again, but I plan on using that meal again Friday night before the competition because it made feel like my skin was gonna burst!
 
this is why any cardio you should be doing is low intensity, in layman's terms - just take a fucking walk for an hour this is sufficient for almost anyone!
 
For my first shows I did 1hr cardio or more 6 days a week, flat weak and starving.

Just a couple of months ago, I hit my all time best condition doing almost no cardio whatsoever (only some easy walking or some short higher intensity sessions 10mins max). I had plenty of energy to train, was not starving myself to death, and a fuller denser look to my physique.

Many successful contest prep specialists and competitors know that once they taper cardio 2-3 weeks out (depending on conditioning) they will tighten up further. Dorian was a huge proponent of this.

Quick calculation, you'll burn about 500kcals from an hour on the treadmill. It ain't difficult to drop 50g of carbs and 30g of fats from your daily diet when you can feel a whole lot better with less cardio.
 
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Chris Aceto on cardio

Aerobics and Getting lean

Bodybuilders use a combination of aerobic exercise and diet to cut up for competition and I have always felt that the diet, how you eat and what dietary strategies you use to rip up, are far more important in getting ripped to the bone than aerobic exercise. The downfall to strict dieting includes an adaptation in the metabolic rate where the body burns fewer calories each day thereby “canceling out” the caloric deficit created by eating less. One way to overcome the metabolic slowdown is to take a break from dieting every 4-6 days and increase your intake of carbohydrates. Increasing your carbohydrates once every 4 to 6 days can help maintain adequate thyroid levels - the hormone that influences how many calories you burn each day. Increasing your intake of carbs also helps to re-saturate the muscles with glucose from carbohydrates - known as muscle glycogen- giving you reserve energy to train when you return to a lower caloric intake. Furthermore, by re-filling your muscles with glycogen, you are preventing the loss of muscle tissue as protein from muscle tiisue can become (along with body fat) a main source of fuel when glycogen stores remain low for an extended period of time.
Some bodybuilders – many good ones including top pro’s avoid a low calorie diet and prefer huge amounts of aerobic exercise to burn off body fat. If you have to choose either “over”dieting, really restricting your caloric intake to rip up or “excess” aerobic work, performing 2 to 3 hours of cardio each day, in all cases, you will hold onto, retain and keep more muscle by choosing a strict diet. In my opinion, when it comes to aerobic exercise, it is very over rated in getting you lean. Why? Because it leads to

1. a slower metabolic rate
2. Decreased testosterone levels
3. Decreased insulin sensitivity

While decreasing calories can cause a metabolic slowdown, increasing caloric expenditure also causes a metabolic slow down by two mechanisms. First, the body adapts to aerobic work by becoming efficient. The more you ride the stationary bike, walk the treadmill and run, the less calories the body burns. That is, a person performing 16 straight weeks of daily aerobic work, 45 minutes a day, will burn up to 25% less total fuel in the sessions during weeks 15 and 16 compared to weeks 1 and 2. The second way the metabolism slows is through the burning of body protein; muscle tissue. I have always suggested bodybuilders perform no more than 45 minutes of continuous aerobic work at any one session, and usually no more then four 45 minutes sessions a week as more than 45 minutes usually causes a metabolic shift where muscle or protein becomes a major source of fuel. So, the individual working really hard on the treadmill can expect to burn muscle tissue during minutes 46 on. Or the person exercising for 60 minutes can expect to burn a good amount of muscles tissue during the final 15 minutes of his hour of aerobic exercise. When the body burns muscle tissue, the metabolic rate crashes, thyroid hormones drop and cortisol levels rise. Excessive cortisol levels can cause a drop in testosterone levels further causing a metabolic slow down. The third destructive event of excess aerobic work is a drop or decrease in insulin sensitivity. That is, high cortisol levels, the result of too much aerobic work, prevents, or more specifically decreases the muscles ability to uptake sugar from the blood and store it as glycogen! This, in turn “chokes off” the body’s ability to stay in an anabolic state or muscle “growth” state.
On the flip side, excess dieting can increase insulin sensitivity helping the body to form muscle glycogen, aiding in muscle retention. And excess dieting does not cause as great a testosterone drop as excess aerobic work. One reason appears that excess dieting does not cause as serious a surge in cortisol.
Dr Wayne Miller and colleagues at The George Washington University Medical Center examined studies carried out over a 25 year period. Their aim was to discover the effects of aerobic exercise combined with diet on weight loss. Their finding are below and indicate aerobic exercise combined with diet only leads to moderate/small decreases in weight loss compared to dieting alone.

METHOD WEIGHT LOSS
Aerobic exercise 7lbs
Restricted calorie intake 17lbs
Aerobic exercise and restricted caloric intake 20lbs

While the results focus on weight loss and do not specifically reveal details as to how much of the weight loss was body fat and how much may have been muscle tissue and the results do not tell us details about diets - were they high or low carb diets, hi protein or low protein, hi fat or low fat…the table is interesting and reveals that dieting or restricting calories is as effective at losing weight as is restricting calories and performing aerobic work. My opinion is that eating less will cause the body to lose fat but also put it dangerously close to the point where the metabolism may begin to slow. Adding aerobic work (expending calories) is similar to the dieter trying to accelerate fat loss by going over board and severely decreasing calories. When calories fall. The metabolism also falls, having little effect on fat loss. For best results, to rip up, start early, make small cuts in calories, decrease calories further if needed and increase your carbs once every 4th day to boost the metabolism. When it comes to aerobics, start with 4 20 minute sessions weekly and build to 4 45 minute sessions. Any more and you’ll be compromising your muscle mass.
Novelty Diets Work

Most of the top pro’s I know use some type of nutrition advisor to prepare for a competition. In most cases, the pro who uses an advisor ends up with far better results than having tried to get in shape on his own. One reason might be simplicity and novelty of the diet. In other words, the person being given a diet by someone else- especially if the bodybuilder is paying for the advice- is likely to stick with the diet, cheat less, and see good results.
One study supports this idea. Forty-five adults referred to an obesity clinic. Patients were to follow one of three possible diets each diet creating a caloric defecit.

One goup followed a diet that was comprised of normal-every-day foods.
9 of the 14 subjects completed the 16 week diet
Average weight loss: 5.7 lbs

Another group followed a “special diet” called the “milk diet” comprised of milk and unsweetened yogurt only.
11 of the 14 subjects completed this 16 week diet.
Average weight loss: 24.6 lbs

The third group followed a “special diet” called the “milk-plus” diet in which they could select a favorite food to supplement a “milk diet”
11 of the 17 subjects completed this 16 week diet.
Average weight loss: 18 lbs

As you can see, all three groups lost weight with no exercise and no supplements. Of the three diets, the “novel” diets, the milk diet and the milk plus diet yielded greater weight loss and greater adherance (completion rate) than the group who ate a regular diet comprised of common every day foods. The authors of the study conclude that simply “naming” a diet or calling it something special not only helps individuals feel more motivated to stick with it, but likely prevents them from cheating. Similarly, a “diet guru” will likely help a pro see better results because the pro believes there may be something “novel” or different, something special about the diet the guru gave him.
Interestingly, the milk diet group got the best results as eating the same foods may lessen or decrease the appetite. Still, other assumptions include; milk contains casein protein and casein may be better than other proteins (fish and meat) in helping to retain lean body mass while reducing calories. The assumption is the milk diet and milk-plus dieters consumed either a higher protein intake than those eating regular foods and a higher protein intake while in a calorie defecit can help maintain metabolic boosting muscle. If the dieter can get his body to hold more muscle while dieting, his metabolism will stay elevated and he will lose more weight.
Source: Summerbell CD et al. Randomised controlled trial of novel, simple, and well supervised weight reducing diets in outpatients. BMJ November 28, 1998;317:1487-9.
Some Fat (not a zero fat diet) Is Helpful in staying Lean in the off season

A new study offers good news for the bodybuilder who sticks to a super low fat diet even in the off season in hopes of staying lean. Eating a diet containing moderate levels of fat--as opposed to a strict low-fat diet--is easier on dieters' taste buds and may result in more long-term weight loss.
Many bodybuilders tend to avoid fat even in the off season and, as a result, over eat calories from carbohydrates. In an attempt to cut out fat calories, they replace the fat with carbohydrates- and then some. Since carbohydrates are a strong appetite stimulant, the bodybuilder ends up eating more calories…sometimes a lot more than he needs each day resulting in gaining too much body fat .Dr. Kathy McManus of Brigham and Women's Hospital in Boston, Massachusetts, and colleagues compared weight loss success and overall satisfaction among overweight people on a moderate-fat diet with those on a more conventional low-fat diet. In the study, 31 people consumed a moderate-fat diet and 30 consumed a low-fat diet. While people in both groups experienced roughly the same amount of weight loss after 6 months, the real difference came at the end of the study--12 months later.Those who ate the moderate-fat diet lost an average of about 9 pounds, while those on the low-fat diet not only gained back the weight they originally lost, but weighed about 6 pounds more than they did at the start of the study. After 18 months, 54% of the people originally recruited to the moderate-fat diet group were still actively participating in the study, but only 20% of those in the low-fat diet group still were. "Reductions in percentage body fat, body mass index (a ratio of a person's height and weight) and waist circumference were all greater in the moderate-fat group," the report indicates.Those consuming the moderate-fat diet, who were then followed for an additional year, lost a total of 7.7 pounds over the entire study period.
: Source International Journal of Obesity 2001;25:1503-1511.

And if you need one more opinion: I as well notice better fat loss without the cardio, goddamn all those wasted hours:(
 
Thanks for that article, Moen! It was a really interesting read.
 
I do not do any cardio in the off season or prepping for a show. Just proper nutrition, supplementation and very intense training. And I get shredded.
 
no need for cardio......unless your fat
 
I have no axe to grind. I am not being a bitchy internet guy here.

I am not going against any of my friends on here or their philosophies. I could care less. I don't have the best physique on this board. I am not competing and I do cardio because I enjoy it.

My "cardio" is simply walking. Not very cardio-vascular, if you ask me. I walk and listen to music, think, watch t.v. I don't think it's hard to walk. :) I think it's a good way to start the day. ;)

I eat a LOT generally and I think I have posted enough pictures on this board as proof enough to say that I am NEVER what one would call "fat." I never have a gut and always can see some abdominals. I am always at least 270-274 lbs.

I would point to a few of the guys who compete at a high level who seem to do cardio when getting in shape for shows.

Ronnie Coleman
Jay Cutler- Who until recently was getting nutritional advice from Chris Aceto.
Lee Priest.....

I find it odd that the best guys in the world with the best genetics DO CARDIO. In fact wasn't Jay Cutler riding his recombant bike two hours per day at his nice house in Las Vegas before the Olympia two years ago?

Doesn't Ronnie Coleman have a treadmill at his house in all his training videos?

The list goes on and I don't know many who compete who have not made friends with the treadmill.

Maybe some people on this board don't need it ....and I say if you don't need it or want to do it GREAT!

Lenny, I think you look great right now and I wouldn't try to mess around here at the last minute because you are beat down and sick of cardio. Next time......try it without the cardio and guage your progress. Just before your show isn't the time to mess everything up. That's just one jerks opinion. lol
 
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My cardio is adding a extra set of lighter weight and do my widow makers. Also less rest between sets. That will get your heart pumping and also burn that Snicker bar I cheated on before workout.
 
When getting ready for a show cardio is a tool for fat loss. Once the fat is gone the cardio can be phased out.

Off season I don't think there are many people serious about there health that don't do cardio. Even Big Bapper started cardio after exchanging a few email with JT, going for a walk a few times each week you wont cause you to loose any muscle. If that were the case the best of the best would not get out of bed or move in fear of losing size. However as JT has said in all the DVDs of the pros they all do cardio. The last DVD I got was Branch Warren. In my eyes Branch is hardcore beyond hardcore and what has he just introduced to his training...CARDIO.

If you are ready for your show and still hammer on doing shit loads of cardio like one bodybuilder I know:eek: all that will happen is muscle loss just like explained in the article above. Thanks for taking time to post that it was very interesting piece on contest prep.
 

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