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Is making gains on 450 ng/dl total testosterone possible?

LiveLifeStrong

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at 33 years old with a 450 ng/dl total test 100% natty. Is this too low for somebody my age who is 100% natural and health and works out 5 days a week and eats consciously?
I am trying to justify if I should just get on TRT and bring the level up to 1200-1500 ng/dl total test and just keep it there or should I just ride it out as long as as hard as I can on my natural max of 450 total test levels?
This is my first post by the way and I absolutely love this message board above all of the other message boards because you guys are the real deal and BS free and uncensored when it comes to what needs to be done and how. Its just 100% reality and thats exactly what I need...so I just want to say thank you to you guys..
 

Fa Seeshus

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1200-1500 ng/dl total test is just above what TRT is... Not really understanding your question. My natural T was in the low 400 range and having the doc put it to 800 range made a big difference. IMHO going much over that isn't bad, but don't call it TRT, that is a cycle or blast.
 

malcom young

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Good luck getting scripted TRT at that natural level, 450; not happening.
 
Last edited:

spartan

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Yes, I would have to agree with Malcom as it will be hard to be prescribed TRT with your test level still in the 450 range. That is unless you find a Dr. that is more loose or aggressive with prescribing TRT. You may have to go to a specific TRT clinic online but they are going to be pricey. Good luck man and keep up the hard work you will figure something out I am sure.

P.S. Welcome to the board. You may want to look through the beginners section for lots of good info for new members.
 

LiveLifeStrong

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Just to clarify..my main question is..would it be justified to get on TRT (Legally expensive route through clinic) and completely replace my natural testosterone @ the 400's and to bring it up past 800? I know that the feeling is probably going to be better..but would it justify 120+ dollars plus a month plus doc fees to do this?
From what I understand..450 ng/dl isn't BAD..its slightly low compared to the average and I do have somewhat of low energy levels..so I guess I am just trying to justify if I should just get my natty levels replaced permanently.
Of course I know there are other routes to go that would be much cheaper for TRT than the clinic..thats always a possibility as well..
 

XstarchildX

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Just to clarify..my main question is..would it be justified to get on TRT (Legally expensive route through clinic) and completely replace my natural testosterone @ the 400's and to bring it up past 800? I know that the feeling is probably going to be better..but would it justify 120+ dollars plus a month plus doc fees to do this?
From what I understand..450 ng/dl isn't BAD..its slightly low compared to the average and I do have somewhat of low energy levels..so I guess I am just trying to justify if I should just get my natty levels replaced permanently.
Of course I know there are other routes to go that would be much cheaper for TRT than the clinic..thats always a possibility as well..
I'd first have to ask a few questions...

1. How long have you been training? (I don't mean on and off training or training like most typical gym go-ers. I mean how long have you been training with intensity following sound programming).

2. Have you only had one blood test done? Levels can vary sometimes. Perhaps get it tested at a different time of day and take the averages of the two.

3. What are your goals specifically?

4. Are you willing to be on TRT for the rest of your days?
 

mister69

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Just to clarify..my main question is..would it be justified to get on TRT (Legally expensive route through clinic) and completely replace my natural testosterone @ the 400's and to bring it up past 800? I know that the feeling is probably going to be better..but would it justify 120+ dollars plus a month plus doc fees to do this?

From what I understand..450 ng/dl isn't BAD..its slightly low compared to the average and I do have somewhat of low energy levels..so I guess I am just trying to justify if I should just get my natty levels replaced permanently.

Of course I know there are other routes to go that would be much cheaper for TRT than the clinic..thats always a possibility as well..



You should be able to gain muscle. How is your diet ?
 

brutus69

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check this out. olympic level athletes, the best in the world, men, 25 percent had low test levels. below 300.
some were lower than some women.
if elite male athletes compete at that level with low t...
if ur training and diet are good, and yr still in "normal" range...
i havent seen any difference now that i stay around 650, than when i was 1500-1800.
other than not needing adex. and not worrying about rbc count.
and fucking up my tendons.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s40842-017-0050-3
 

LiveLifeStrong

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I'd first have to ask a few questions...

1. How long have you been training? (I don't mean on and off training or training like most typical gym go-ers. I mean how long have you been training with intensity following sound programming).

2. Have you only had one blood test done? Levels can vary sometimes. Perhaps get it tested at a different time of day and take the averages of the two.

3. What are your goals specifically?

4. Are you willing to be on TRT for the rest of your days?

These are very good questions.thank you for asking me that..because it kind of selects back at me as to where I stand in all of this because of introspection.
I am going to answer these questions honestly:

1. For serious training with complete dedication and following a consistent routine..over 2 years..but on and off my whole life basically. I would grade myself as your average run of the mill but consistent and dedicated athlete.

2. I've actually most recently tested at 508 ng/dl..last test was 440 ng/dl. I always got tested at 10 30 am before breakfast.

3. My goals are to have more stable energy levels..quicker recovery, better and more sustained endurance exercises. I want to feel better..I want to wake up feeling refreshed and I want better oxygen capacity and to feel better natural energy without constantly reducing on caffeine.

4. TRT for the rest of my life through the legitimate medical route..but not in other circumstances. The problem is the cost is insane that offers legal TRT and the other route is questionable with quality control (based on my understanding).

A question...I used to take Formeron (transdermal ai) a few years ago to boost natty test before they stopped making it. Is there a way to jack up natty test with any transdermal ai or products in the market today..say perhaps..transdermal arimistane? Please let me take the time to thank you guys again.
 

Blswan

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Total T is a baseless test for pre TRT diagnoses. Depending on your SHBG you could have more than adequate free T. You should also test your E2, FSH, LH, and as mentioned SHBG. These are minimally required tests to diagnose you.
 

maldorf

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Good luck getting scripted TRT at that natural level, 450; not happening.

I think for most doctors this is the case. Maybe if you went to one of those male clinics where they push the boundaries more and go by how you feel. My level personally was about 45. With HRT now it is in the 800s. There are also risks involved doing HRT so you are better off staying natural if you feel healthy.
 

XstarchildX

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These are very good questions.thank you for asking me that..because it kind of selects back at me as to where I stand in all of this because of introspection.
I am going to answer these questions honestly:

1. For serious training with complete dedication and following a consistent routine..over 2 years..but on and off my whole life basically. I would grade myself as your average run of the mill but consistent and dedicated athlete.

2. I've actually most recently tested at 508 ng/dl..last test was 440 ng/dl. I always got tested at 10 30 am before breakfast.

3. My goals are to have more stable energy levels..quicker recovery, better and more sustained endurance exercises. I want to feel better..I want to wake up feeling refreshed and I want better oxygen capacity and to feel better natural energy without constantly reducing on caffeine.

4. TRT for the rest of my life through the legitimate medical route..but not in other circumstances. The problem is the cost is insane that offers legal TRT and the other route is questionable with quality control (based on my understanding).

A question...I used to take Formeron (transdermal ai) a few years ago to boost natty test before they stopped making it. Is there a way to jack up natty test with any transdermal ai or products in the market today..say perhaps..transdermal arimistane? Please let me take the time to thank you guys again.
First off, I appreciate the honesty. Definitely a breath of fresh air.

I personally think that, unless you're using AAS for competitive purposes, or to really push your limits in terms of muscular hypertrophy, you probably shouldn't even consider touching them at this point in time. Your test levels are much higher than mine were (107 and 118 respectively), and I still had to force myself to go the TRT route. I knew I needed it, but wanted to exhaust all other options.

That being said, if you want to feel better, focus more on diet and have blood drawn considering other factors that might be off (vitamin d, vitamin b, iron, ferritin, etc) as these could be throwing a wrench in your current energy levels.

I switched to TRT via UGL since my insurance decided to no longer cover hormone replacement therapy. I know it's probably not the best option long term, but unless I want to take out a second mortgage on the home, it's my only option lol.

As far as boosting levels naturally, I'm afraid you'll find that to be a fool's errand. The only thing to truly boost your levels long term will be to use test...

Hopefully this helps a bit.
 

rookx750

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Good luck getting scripted TRT at that natural level, 450; not happening.

Hahaha not if your in FL, I don’t think they even look at the blood work when your paying out of pocket. I’ve heard of a 26 year old walk into a clinic with a total test of 790 and get a shot in his ass that day and continue to be treated. I hope this negligence dose not ruin it for everyone else who need it and the people following the rules/guidelines.



To your question yes you can build muscle that low just going to take protection. There are so many thing that also go into growing muscle tissue than just testosterone.


For you though if your that high, feel good, and have been natural the whole time I would not even consider trt till you need it.
 

buck

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If 450 is the level you have been forever then you may be able to make some gians if yo eat well and get enough rest. If your levels used to be higher and has been dropping then you will probably have a hard time retaining your gains you made when your levels were higher.
 

malcom young

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First off, I appreciate the honesty. Definitely a breath of fresh air.

I personally think that, unless you're using AAS for competitive purposes, or to really push your limits in terms of muscular hypertrophy, you probably shouldn't even consider touching them at this point in time. Your test levels are much higher than mine were (107 and 118 respectively), and I still had to force myself to go the TRT route. I knew I needed it, but wanted to exhaust all other options.

That being said, if you want to feel better, focus more on diet and have blood drawn considering other factors that might be off (vitamin d, vitamin b, iron, ferritin, etc) as these could be throwing a wrench in your current energy levels.

I switched to TRT via UGL since my insurance decided to no longer cover hormone replacement therapy. I know it's probably not the best option long term, but unless I want to take out a second mortgage on the home, it's my only option lol.

As far as boosting levels naturally, I'm afraid you'll find that to be a fool's errand. The only thing to truly boost your levels long term will be to use test...

Hopefully this helps a bit.



Have you checked prices through goodrx?

I pay out of pocket for my cyp script, it’s actually cheaper than going through my insurance deductible.
 

LiveLifeStrong

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All of your replies are so helpful and I really appreciate it!

I just want to say thank you to each and every one of you guys that posted on here. It really sounds like that all of the answers are pointing towards the obvious and most logical one; that its probably best to put off the idea of TRT for the time being, considering the fact that the levels are not dangerously low like it could be and to focus more on diet and to look deeper into other factors of the blood test like getting blood drawn to check for vitamin levels and things like that. Of course...I read so much about testosterone and its benefits all over the internet that I actually overlooked other more simple things that has much more simple solutions (example..maybe I am insufficient in vitamins or something of a general nature unrelated to testosterone).
I guess when you read so much about a single substance, over and over..you begin to crave it and believe it to be a solution to all of your problems...when maybe sometimes its best to back up and look at the other basic details, which I plan on getting blood redrawn for other factors.
I actually forgot to mention that in the blood test, the liver values were very high with elevated AST and ALT and borderline to the max bilirubin. Perhaps its the liver issue thats causing the energy and motivation problems..who knows.
Again..thank you guys and this is EXACTLY why I joined this kind of forum after lurking for so long. You guys just have a way of sharing your experiences and solutions and you all work together to help one another out. Thats really cool and amazing..and is probably the reason why this forum has stood the test of time and isn't going anywhere..while the other ones come and go.
Awesome.
:)
 

Rogue

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Its possible.
Get everything else in check.
it will actually start climbing up if you do it proper and regimental.
 

little slice

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the guys who are saying 'yeah bro' are doing you a huge disservice
 

dale338

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My natural T was 500 three years ago and I went on TRT. I tried clomid monotherapy for a couple years first and it raised it to 750-ish but clomid is the devil. Decided to just take the plunge at 47 for life and go on TRT. No regrets! I keep my levels between 900-1250 and feel great!
 

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