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IV use of hgh
- Thread starter cdogg
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2002
- Messages
- 14,574
Ive heard of such.
I have to say I myself would never even consider it.
The only needdle in the vein Ill be getting will be from a Hospital if neccasary.
Now even if it did work twice as good and twice as fast (which I dont think it does) Is it realy worth it? Not for me.
Sorry im not much help and have no experience personaly But I did have a partner here in my area doing this way and I didnt see any drastic changes or anything to make me think, Man its realy working better. Although in his mind at the time this was the 'best way.... Id say looking back now
he would tell you differant... Or as An outsider looking in Im telling you I seen No Drastic changes in his Physique.
I have to say I myself would never even consider it.
The only needdle in the vein Ill be getting will be from a Hospital if neccasary.
Now even if it did work twice as good and twice as fast (which I dont think it does) Is it realy worth it? Not for me.
Sorry im not much help and have no experience personaly But I did have a partner here in my area doing this way and I didnt see any drastic changes or anything to make me think, Man its realy working better. Although in his mind at the time this was the 'best way.... Id say looking back now
he would tell you differant... Or as An outsider looking in Im telling you I seen No Drastic changes in his Physique.
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2004
- Messages
- 4,545
IV why?
GH effects have nothing to do with half life. I have seen guys recomending IV and injecting 3-4 times a day ED and it's bullskitty.
EOD dosing works just as good as ED and even Every third day dosing (higher dose) works very well for mass building.
GH effects have nothing to do with half life. I have seen guys recomending IV and injecting 3-4 times a day ED and it's bullskitty.
EOD dosing works just as good as ED and even Every third day dosing (higher dose) works very well for mass building.
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2004
- Messages
- 992
here ya go
I copied this from **broken link removed** if anyone wants to read more stuff by the doc. Ellis the guy who owns the site is a big HGH, and hormone replacement proponent. and has alot of good info on his site
THIS IS DATED INFO SO DISREGARD ANY PRICES HE MENTIONS..
Big Doc's Protocol for taking Human Growth Hormone (rHGH)
How to Get the most "Bang for the Buck" from HGH
Introduction:
Doctor David Speer, known fondly to subscribers of Rejuvenation as "Big Doc", died on February 1st, 2001 of a heart attack. To us that learned from his posts for more than one year and who grew to love and respect him, this is a big loss and we will certainly miss him.
Doc was a lone wolf who refused to follow anything that was "conventional wisdom" blindly. He was a leader, always ahead of his time. He would take his own decisions on how to do things, and these very often were strikingly different than the conventional way of doing things. One of these was his protocol for taking human growth hormone (rHGH).
Doc's life was one of ups and downs. He was a successful anaesthesiaologist and medical school teacher for many years. Then he retired and opened a gym. His interest in body building led him to experiment with a substance called GHB, which he knew is an excellent growth hormone secretagogue. GHB is a metabolite and a precursor of the neurotransmitter gamma aminobutyric acid, otherwise known as GABA. It occurs naturally in every mammal as part of their normal brain function. GHB helps keep our nervous systems functioning properly, and is by far the most effective growth hormone releasing secretagogue known to man.
Unfortunately, GHB was also being blamed for being a "date rape" drug, which may or may not be true, but nobody that Doc sold GHB to, as a service, was ever harmed and nobody he sold GHB to ever harmed anybody else. This was in 1992, and GHB was a legal substance, which could be easily mixed at home, a little more complicated than mixing water and lemon to make a lemon-aid, but legal in any case.
Somehow the F.D.A. learned that Doc was selling GHB in his gym and decided to nail him for it. An F.D.A. undercover agent worked in Doc's gym for more than a year to gather proof that he was selling GHB to his gym students. Doc sold it to them because he knew it was an inexpensive and safe way to enhance their body-building. He did not sell it outside of his gym, and he was not involved in the sale or distribution of illegal drugs of any kind (and in those days GHB was a legal substance.)
GHB was finally made illegal in the United States in the year 2000. It is now classified the same as heroine or cocaine, allegedly because it is a "date rape drug." It can still be bought over the counter in Mexico and Europe, without a prescription, because it has many medical uses, including some for children. (Note: Today you can buy GHB legally in the U.S. from a pharmaceutical company, but at a cost about 40 times what it cost to make it at home, before. It is a crime to make at home, but legal to buy at 40 times the cost... pay the System its dues, and you're o.k.)
But Doc was sent to jail years before it was ever declared an illegal drug. He was told by the F.D.A. that he was guilty of mixing two (legal) substances together to make a third substance. Doc decided to himself that if that was a crime, he was in trouble, so he looked for and found a lawyer. Believing that he was certainly guilty of the "crime" of mixing two legal substances to make a third substance, he allowed his "lawyer" to plea bargain for him, believing he might be reprimanded or fined, but he never thought he could be sentenced to jail.
The "lawyer" plea bargained him into a jail sentence, and then abandoned him! Doc told me that when he heard the Judge sentence him to jail, he couldn't believe that this was really happening to him. When he saw that he was being handcuffed and being led off to jail, he was wondering when he would wake up from this terrible nightmare!
Doc was sent to a Federal penitenciary, with some of the worst criminals and mobsters in the United States. He was released after two years, in terrible health due to the bad food (spaghetti, rice, cereals, etc) and physical inactivity. Because he was not a rich man, but he knew he needed growth hormone, he came up with this protocol, which he used to get the most "Bang for the Buck" from whatever growth hormone he was able to afford.
Doc moved to Can Cun in June, 2000, because he feared that the FDA would send him back to jail if he injected testosterone, which he felt he needed. Testosterone is not illegal in Mexico, and Doc could not risk doing anything illegal in the United States. I flew to Can Cun when he got there, and I spent a pleasant week with him at the Royal Mayan. I helped him to find an apartment, near a gym, and I introduced him to my friends in Can Cun.
In the seven days I stayed with Doc, we discussed his protocol often. I took down detailed notes, just like a secretary. I might have made some minor mistakes, and I don't understand all the words that follow, perfectly well myself, but I understand the important ideas well enough. Most of these are Doc's words, as he spoke them to me. From these notes I now have put together "Doc's Protocol for Taking GH" so that others may read and benefit from Doc's wisdom, as a last tribute to a good man who was unjustly crucified by a tyrant Government agency.
Rest in Peace, my friend, Big Doc. - Ellis Toussier
Dr. David Lee Speer, "Big Doc"
age 68, January, 2001
The Wisdom of Big Doc
DOC'S PROTOCOL FOR TAKING GROWTH HORMONE:
ON Days: Take 3 i.u.'s rHGH in a single shot for 6 days. Eat normally.
OFF Days: Don't take any rHGH for 8 days. Keep carbohydrates very low (meat, chicken, fish, eggs, delactosed milk.) A very low carbohydrate diet allows you to drop insulin level. It is not necessary to go into ketosis, but try to keep insulin as low as possible.
WHAT YOU ARE DOING: You are building up GH concentration in the cytoplasm of liver cells and every cell in the body. GH will bind with protein and DNA, and this will cause them to have all the metabollic effects that growth hormone causes. The main effect of Growth Hormone in the liver is production of various IGF's (insulin growth factors).
The half life of intracellular Growth Hormone is 3 to 4 days. You can see this when you train in the gymnasium, because you can see muscle "pump" and strength gains for a week after you stop taking GH.
You have to have at least 3 i.u.'s to increase the level of intra-cellular GH concentration. Once you reach these greater concentrations, the effect of GH persists for up to a week. If you don't get the GH concentration much higher than it would be if you didn't take GH, then you are never going to have much effect.
Growth hormone binds to DNA and causes, or stimulates, the DNA to produce more ribosomes. Then GH binds to ribosomes and activates them to turn out IGF-1 molecules. IGF-1 molecules leave the cytoplasm and go into the plasma, thus becoming circulating IGF-1. IGF-1 has a half life of about 20 hours.
IGF-1 and insulin both do very similar things: they both attach to receptors of muscle cells. The receptors are very similar. These receptors are part of the cell membrane structure. GH and insulin both increase the cellular membrane permeability of certain amino acids, to thus facilitate the transfer of those amino acids into the muscle cells into the sarco-plasm.
The amino acids that insulin facilitates to cross are different than the amino acids that IGF-1 helps to cross. The entire array of both of them combined is what is necessary for "proteo-genesis" (new protein for muscles). It is like a double key system in a bank safe: you need both keys, or you can't open the safe. You need ALL the amino acids that IGF-1 helps to cross AND all the amino acids that insulin helps to cross, or you can't have proteo-genesis.
High IGF-1 with low insulin has no anabolic effect because to have new proteo-genesis you need ALL the amino acids helped across by IGF-1 AND of insulin. Low IGF-1 and high insulin also does not help to build muscle because IGF-1 is missing, so the amino acid array is incomplete.
ATP can be formed in ample amounts from glucose, fat, or protein. If IGF-1 synthesis by the liver is markedly reduced during ketosis, as I've theorized, it would have to be the result of specific enzyme changes resulting from low insulin concentrations. Low insulin levels cause widespread metabolic changes throughout the body by changing specific enzyme systems.
In fact, low insulin output, by itself, causes shutdown of proteogenesis, regardless of IGF-1 levels, and is the primary (and maybe the only) cause of the greatly increased output of GH during starvation or keto dieting.
Low insulin also increases fat mobilization, an effect enhanced by elevated GH. So, now I withdraw my prediction of low IGF-1 levels during ketosis, but if they occur, low IGF-1 may be an additive factor in the stimulation of GH output, and in the shutdown of muscle proteogenesis.
Growth hormone goes into the insulin producing cells of the pancreas to greatly increase the output of insulin, so insulin goes way up... unless there is very little carbohydrate... in which case high insulin doesn't happen. If it did, you could go into a hypoglecemia coma, and you could even die. Nobody knows how this happens, but when GH goes into the pancreas, something turns off the pancreas's response to glucose.
Acromegalic Giants all become Type I diabetics eventually, because GH has so overstimulated their insulin producing cells that they have literally burned out. (Type I diabetes means their pancreas doesn't produce any insulin.)
The other effect of GH is that it makes us insulin resistant to glucose concentration. The beauty of this insulin resistance is that it allows us to have a high insulin levels without profound hypoglycemia, and together with the IGF-1 this then gives us a maximum anabolic effect.
But prolonged elevated insulin and insulin resistance could lead us in the wrong direction, and Type II diabetes. So in the week off GH, the very low carbohydrate levels causes very low insulin levels, which hopefully reestablishes normal insulin sensitivity. This restores certain enzyme concentrations back to levels that support the burning of fat, instead of glucose and amino acids (catabolic burning of muscle) to cover the energy requirements.
All this means that we have to cycle... and the cycle is: one week ON growth hormone and carbohydrates, and one week OFF growth hormone and carbohydrates.
Growth hormone, however, causes A.D.H. (Anti-Diuretic Hormone) to go up. ADH is a very potent coronary constrictor which also constricts veins. It is produced starting in the hypothalamus. The nerve endings of certain neurons in the hypothalamus reach into the posterior pituitary, and ADH and oxicitocin come from the posterior pituitary. ADH can go up to 20 times normal levels with fear, or anger, and stress. This can cause coronary constriction within minutes, and this can cause a massive heart attack.
Growth hormone makes ADH go up, and as a direct effect of this, water retention goes up, which causes higher blood pressure. ADH is dose dependent of GH, which is why you have to drop the dose if blood pressure goes up too high, until your circulatory system adjusts to handle it. This is the only bad side effect of an otherwise very good dose of growth hormone.
"Clonidine" is the safest high blood pressure medicine. It causes no side effects, and no impotency of any kind. It is indicated if you have high blood pressure due to ADH.
WHY YOU BUILD FAT IF YOU HAVE LOW GH:
If you have low GH and high insulin you don't build muscle because IGF-1 is missing, so you can't have proteo-genesis. If you are lacking the amino acids used to make muscle protein, you burn less fat... so fat goes back into fat cells.
Very few doctors understand this. More body builders know this better than many doctors do.
ABOUT STEROIDS:
Dianabol - makes you "horney and virile."
Anadrol 50 (oral) is bad for the liver.
Anavar (oxandrolone) is very safe for the liver. Every man should take one or two pills per day. Women can take it too, because it doesn't have androgenic effects, it is pure anabolic. It boosts the immune system tremendously. People that are HIV+ have taken Anavar for up to 15 years without getting AIDS. They take Anavar plus rHGH. Anavar speeds up (improves) metabolism, and it will not aromatize (convert to estrogen). Zero aromatization. It has no effect on libido, because it has no androgenic (male, virile) effects it is only anabolic (builds muscle). The F.D.A. took it off the market (par for the course, for the F.D.A.) in the U.S. for many years. Now it is back on the market because of the AIDS epidemic. Becoming HIV+ doesn't even scare me (Doc) anymore because Anavar plus growth hormone will prevent HIV+ from becoming AIDS. For example, Magic Johnson was HIV+, now appears to be negative.
Short Protocol for persons that are HIV+: take 4 Anavar per day, plus 3 i.u.'s rHGH per day.
See: Doc Speer's Page on the internet, which he was working on before his death.
For more information on the above please write to me:
[email protected]
====== In his own words = = = = E-mails from Big Doc = = =
I copy here the first e-mail I received from Big Doc to me, Dated March 21, 2000
I am a 68 year old retired Anesthesiologist. After retirement I owned and operated a bodybuilding gym for 9 years. I became a hardcore body-builder in my latter 50's, competing in local and state competitions in 89, 90, and 91 (with the help of steroids of course, which all competitors were using at that time). I won five 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place trophies.
In 1992, I began having anginal chest pain, responsive to nitroglycerine. My coronary occlusive disease was no doubt accelerated by high calorie ketogenic dieting and use of 500 mg stack totals of roids per week to drop my bodyfat down to 4% for competition.
In 1992, I was busted by the FDA for making and selling GHB. Four years later I was sentensed to 30 months in federal prison for my "crimes against the state" (I had no victoms). I lost my gym and all my other assets. I suffered two MI's between indictment and sentensing, and my anginal problem became progressively worse in prison. I refused heart surgery, taking my chances on surviving my sentense.
Two days after my release from incarceration, I had my first chelation infusion. After 12 infusions my coronary status had improved enough for me to join a gym and start easing my way back into bodyduilding. After my first 30 chelations I have continued having one per month for preventive maintenance. Anginal chest pain is no longer a problem for any activity I now enjoy.
Eating junk carbohydrate garbage in the joint and not working out, my bodyfat increased to about 35% (10 inches added to my waistline). I have been doing HIRT (high intensity resistance training) ALA Arther Jones and Mike Mentzer for the past 18 months, and using all the nutritional tricks I know plus creatine and a few other effective supplements. I am now back down to about 12% bodyfat (a loss of about 45 pounds of fat). I lost only 25 pounds of weight, which means I regained 20 pounds of muscle. I believe that such fat loss with simultaneous muscle gain by anyone over 60 without steroids may have never been done before.
I have also been injecting HGH (IV instead of subq for increase bioavaila- bility) for the past 12 months. I would like to warn people with coronary problems about the one potentially serious side effect of HGH use. The water retension from HGH is due to increased secretion of ADH (anti- diuretic hormone) from the posterior pituitary. This hormonal relationship is not in any medical literature. However, it must be true, because the water retension and hypertension are easily controlled by .2mg of clonidine q 12 hours (personal experience). Clonidine's primary action is retarding ADH secretion. ACE inhibitors have no effect, which means that angiotensin and sodium retention are not part of the problem.
The above is important, because ADH is also a generalized vasocon- strictor, capable of causing coronary vasospasm and death. Older people, especially those with a history of coronary occlusive problems, should have nitro handy at all times, and if angina, hypertension or water retension is a problem while using HGH, should be put on clonidine to attenuate the problem.
I have been getting Saizen from RXUSA and paying $1500.00 for 30mg purchases. I am very interested in finding a less expensive source of HGH.
Hoping to hear from you soon,
David L Speer, MD
I copied this from **broken link removed** if anyone wants to read more stuff by the doc. Ellis the guy who owns the site is a big HGH, and hormone replacement proponent. and has alot of good info on his site
THIS IS DATED INFO SO DISREGARD ANY PRICES HE MENTIONS..
Big Doc's Protocol for taking Human Growth Hormone (rHGH)
How to Get the most "Bang for the Buck" from HGH
Introduction:
Doctor David Speer, known fondly to subscribers of Rejuvenation as "Big Doc", died on February 1st, 2001 of a heart attack. To us that learned from his posts for more than one year and who grew to love and respect him, this is a big loss and we will certainly miss him.
Doc was a lone wolf who refused to follow anything that was "conventional wisdom" blindly. He was a leader, always ahead of his time. He would take his own decisions on how to do things, and these very often were strikingly different than the conventional way of doing things. One of these was his protocol for taking human growth hormone (rHGH).
Doc's life was one of ups and downs. He was a successful anaesthesiaologist and medical school teacher for many years. Then he retired and opened a gym. His interest in body building led him to experiment with a substance called GHB, which he knew is an excellent growth hormone secretagogue. GHB is a metabolite and a precursor of the neurotransmitter gamma aminobutyric acid, otherwise known as GABA. It occurs naturally in every mammal as part of their normal brain function. GHB helps keep our nervous systems functioning properly, and is by far the most effective growth hormone releasing secretagogue known to man.
Unfortunately, GHB was also being blamed for being a "date rape" drug, which may or may not be true, but nobody that Doc sold GHB to, as a service, was ever harmed and nobody he sold GHB to ever harmed anybody else. This was in 1992, and GHB was a legal substance, which could be easily mixed at home, a little more complicated than mixing water and lemon to make a lemon-aid, but legal in any case.
Somehow the F.D.A. learned that Doc was selling GHB in his gym and decided to nail him for it. An F.D.A. undercover agent worked in Doc's gym for more than a year to gather proof that he was selling GHB to his gym students. Doc sold it to them because he knew it was an inexpensive and safe way to enhance their body-building. He did not sell it outside of his gym, and he was not involved in the sale or distribution of illegal drugs of any kind (and in those days GHB was a legal substance.)
GHB was finally made illegal in the United States in the year 2000. It is now classified the same as heroine or cocaine, allegedly because it is a "date rape drug." It can still be bought over the counter in Mexico and Europe, without a prescription, because it has many medical uses, including some for children. (Note: Today you can buy GHB legally in the U.S. from a pharmaceutical company, but at a cost about 40 times what it cost to make it at home, before. It is a crime to make at home, but legal to buy at 40 times the cost... pay the System its dues, and you're o.k.)
But Doc was sent to jail years before it was ever declared an illegal drug. He was told by the F.D.A. that he was guilty of mixing two (legal) substances together to make a third substance. Doc decided to himself that if that was a crime, he was in trouble, so he looked for and found a lawyer. Believing that he was certainly guilty of the "crime" of mixing two legal substances to make a third substance, he allowed his "lawyer" to plea bargain for him, believing he might be reprimanded or fined, but he never thought he could be sentenced to jail.
The "lawyer" plea bargained him into a jail sentence, and then abandoned him! Doc told me that when he heard the Judge sentence him to jail, he couldn't believe that this was really happening to him. When he saw that he was being handcuffed and being led off to jail, he was wondering when he would wake up from this terrible nightmare!
Doc was sent to a Federal penitenciary, with some of the worst criminals and mobsters in the United States. He was released after two years, in terrible health due to the bad food (spaghetti, rice, cereals, etc) and physical inactivity. Because he was not a rich man, but he knew he needed growth hormone, he came up with this protocol, which he used to get the most "Bang for the Buck" from whatever growth hormone he was able to afford.
Doc moved to Can Cun in June, 2000, because he feared that the FDA would send him back to jail if he injected testosterone, which he felt he needed. Testosterone is not illegal in Mexico, and Doc could not risk doing anything illegal in the United States. I flew to Can Cun when he got there, and I spent a pleasant week with him at the Royal Mayan. I helped him to find an apartment, near a gym, and I introduced him to my friends in Can Cun.
In the seven days I stayed with Doc, we discussed his protocol often. I took down detailed notes, just like a secretary. I might have made some minor mistakes, and I don't understand all the words that follow, perfectly well myself, but I understand the important ideas well enough. Most of these are Doc's words, as he spoke them to me. From these notes I now have put together "Doc's Protocol for Taking GH" so that others may read and benefit from Doc's wisdom, as a last tribute to a good man who was unjustly crucified by a tyrant Government agency.
Rest in Peace, my friend, Big Doc. - Ellis Toussier
Dr. David Lee Speer, "Big Doc"
age 68, January, 2001
The Wisdom of Big Doc
DOC'S PROTOCOL FOR TAKING GROWTH HORMONE:
ON Days: Take 3 i.u.'s rHGH in a single shot for 6 days. Eat normally.
OFF Days: Don't take any rHGH for 8 days. Keep carbohydrates very low (meat, chicken, fish, eggs, delactosed milk.) A very low carbohydrate diet allows you to drop insulin level. It is not necessary to go into ketosis, but try to keep insulin as low as possible.
WHAT YOU ARE DOING: You are building up GH concentration in the cytoplasm of liver cells and every cell in the body. GH will bind with protein and DNA, and this will cause them to have all the metabollic effects that growth hormone causes. The main effect of Growth Hormone in the liver is production of various IGF's (insulin growth factors).
The half life of intracellular Growth Hormone is 3 to 4 days. You can see this when you train in the gymnasium, because you can see muscle "pump" and strength gains for a week after you stop taking GH.
You have to have at least 3 i.u.'s to increase the level of intra-cellular GH concentration. Once you reach these greater concentrations, the effect of GH persists for up to a week. If you don't get the GH concentration much higher than it would be if you didn't take GH, then you are never going to have much effect.
Growth hormone binds to DNA and causes, or stimulates, the DNA to produce more ribosomes. Then GH binds to ribosomes and activates them to turn out IGF-1 molecules. IGF-1 molecules leave the cytoplasm and go into the plasma, thus becoming circulating IGF-1. IGF-1 has a half life of about 20 hours.
IGF-1 and insulin both do very similar things: they both attach to receptors of muscle cells. The receptors are very similar. These receptors are part of the cell membrane structure. GH and insulin both increase the cellular membrane permeability of certain amino acids, to thus facilitate the transfer of those amino acids into the muscle cells into the sarco-plasm.
The amino acids that insulin facilitates to cross are different than the amino acids that IGF-1 helps to cross. The entire array of both of them combined is what is necessary for "proteo-genesis" (new protein for muscles). It is like a double key system in a bank safe: you need both keys, or you can't open the safe. You need ALL the amino acids that IGF-1 helps to cross AND all the amino acids that insulin helps to cross, or you can't have proteo-genesis.
High IGF-1 with low insulin has no anabolic effect because to have new proteo-genesis you need ALL the amino acids helped across by IGF-1 AND of insulin. Low IGF-1 and high insulin also does not help to build muscle because IGF-1 is missing, so the amino acid array is incomplete.
ATP can be formed in ample amounts from glucose, fat, or protein. If IGF-1 synthesis by the liver is markedly reduced during ketosis, as I've theorized, it would have to be the result of specific enzyme changes resulting from low insulin concentrations. Low insulin levels cause widespread metabolic changes throughout the body by changing specific enzyme systems.
In fact, low insulin output, by itself, causes shutdown of proteogenesis, regardless of IGF-1 levels, and is the primary (and maybe the only) cause of the greatly increased output of GH during starvation or keto dieting.
Low insulin also increases fat mobilization, an effect enhanced by elevated GH. So, now I withdraw my prediction of low IGF-1 levels during ketosis, but if they occur, low IGF-1 may be an additive factor in the stimulation of GH output, and in the shutdown of muscle proteogenesis.
Growth hormone goes into the insulin producing cells of the pancreas to greatly increase the output of insulin, so insulin goes way up... unless there is very little carbohydrate... in which case high insulin doesn't happen. If it did, you could go into a hypoglecemia coma, and you could even die. Nobody knows how this happens, but when GH goes into the pancreas, something turns off the pancreas's response to glucose.
Acromegalic Giants all become Type I diabetics eventually, because GH has so overstimulated their insulin producing cells that they have literally burned out. (Type I diabetes means their pancreas doesn't produce any insulin.)
The other effect of GH is that it makes us insulin resistant to glucose concentration. The beauty of this insulin resistance is that it allows us to have a high insulin levels without profound hypoglycemia, and together with the IGF-1 this then gives us a maximum anabolic effect.
But prolonged elevated insulin and insulin resistance could lead us in the wrong direction, and Type II diabetes. So in the week off GH, the very low carbohydrate levels causes very low insulin levels, which hopefully reestablishes normal insulin sensitivity. This restores certain enzyme concentrations back to levels that support the burning of fat, instead of glucose and amino acids (catabolic burning of muscle) to cover the energy requirements.
All this means that we have to cycle... and the cycle is: one week ON growth hormone and carbohydrates, and one week OFF growth hormone and carbohydrates.
Growth hormone, however, causes A.D.H. (Anti-Diuretic Hormone) to go up. ADH is a very potent coronary constrictor which also constricts veins. It is produced starting in the hypothalamus. The nerve endings of certain neurons in the hypothalamus reach into the posterior pituitary, and ADH and oxicitocin come from the posterior pituitary. ADH can go up to 20 times normal levels with fear, or anger, and stress. This can cause coronary constriction within minutes, and this can cause a massive heart attack.
Growth hormone makes ADH go up, and as a direct effect of this, water retention goes up, which causes higher blood pressure. ADH is dose dependent of GH, which is why you have to drop the dose if blood pressure goes up too high, until your circulatory system adjusts to handle it. This is the only bad side effect of an otherwise very good dose of growth hormone.
"Clonidine" is the safest high blood pressure medicine. It causes no side effects, and no impotency of any kind. It is indicated if you have high blood pressure due to ADH.
WHY YOU BUILD FAT IF YOU HAVE LOW GH:
If you have low GH and high insulin you don't build muscle because IGF-1 is missing, so you can't have proteo-genesis. If you are lacking the amino acids used to make muscle protein, you burn less fat... so fat goes back into fat cells.
Very few doctors understand this. More body builders know this better than many doctors do.
ABOUT STEROIDS:
Dianabol - makes you "horney and virile."
Anadrol 50 (oral) is bad for the liver.
Anavar (oxandrolone) is very safe for the liver. Every man should take one or two pills per day. Women can take it too, because it doesn't have androgenic effects, it is pure anabolic. It boosts the immune system tremendously. People that are HIV+ have taken Anavar for up to 15 years without getting AIDS. They take Anavar plus rHGH. Anavar speeds up (improves) metabolism, and it will not aromatize (convert to estrogen). Zero aromatization. It has no effect on libido, because it has no androgenic (male, virile) effects it is only anabolic (builds muscle). The F.D.A. took it off the market (par for the course, for the F.D.A.) in the U.S. for many years. Now it is back on the market because of the AIDS epidemic. Becoming HIV+ doesn't even scare me (Doc) anymore because Anavar plus growth hormone will prevent HIV+ from becoming AIDS. For example, Magic Johnson was HIV+, now appears to be negative.
Short Protocol for persons that are HIV+: take 4 Anavar per day, plus 3 i.u.'s rHGH per day.
See: Doc Speer's Page on the internet, which he was working on before his death.
For more information on the above please write to me:
[email protected]
====== In his own words = = = = E-mails from Big Doc = = =
I copy here the first e-mail I received from Big Doc to me, Dated March 21, 2000
I am a 68 year old retired Anesthesiologist. After retirement I owned and operated a bodybuilding gym for 9 years. I became a hardcore body-builder in my latter 50's, competing in local and state competitions in 89, 90, and 91 (with the help of steroids of course, which all competitors were using at that time). I won five 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place trophies.
In 1992, I began having anginal chest pain, responsive to nitroglycerine. My coronary occlusive disease was no doubt accelerated by high calorie ketogenic dieting and use of 500 mg stack totals of roids per week to drop my bodyfat down to 4% for competition.
In 1992, I was busted by the FDA for making and selling GHB. Four years later I was sentensed to 30 months in federal prison for my "crimes against the state" (I had no victoms). I lost my gym and all my other assets. I suffered two MI's between indictment and sentensing, and my anginal problem became progressively worse in prison. I refused heart surgery, taking my chances on surviving my sentense.
Two days after my release from incarceration, I had my first chelation infusion. After 12 infusions my coronary status had improved enough for me to join a gym and start easing my way back into bodyduilding. After my first 30 chelations I have continued having one per month for preventive maintenance. Anginal chest pain is no longer a problem for any activity I now enjoy.
Eating junk carbohydrate garbage in the joint and not working out, my bodyfat increased to about 35% (10 inches added to my waistline). I have been doing HIRT (high intensity resistance training) ALA Arther Jones and Mike Mentzer for the past 18 months, and using all the nutritional tricks I know plus creatine and a few other effective supplements. I am now back down to about 12% bodyfat (a loss of about 45 pounds of fat). I lost only 25 pounds of weight, which means I regained 20 pounds of muscle. I believe that such fat loss with simultaneous muscle gain by anyone over 60 without steroids may have never been done before.
I have also been injecting HGH (IV instead of subq for increase bioavaila- bility) for the past 12 months. I would like to warn people with coronary problems about the one potentially serious side effect of HGH use. The water retension from HGH is due to increased secretion of ADH (anti- diuretic hormone) from the posterior pituitary. This hormonal relationship is not in any medical literature. However, it must be true, because the water retension and hypertension are easily controlled by .2mg of clonidine q 12 hours (personal experience). Clonidine's primary action is retarding ADH secretion. ACE inhibitors have no effect, which means that angiotensin and sodium retention are not part of the problem.
The above is important, because ADH is also a generalized vasocon- strictor, capable of causing coronary vasospasm and death. Older people, especially those with a history of coronary occlusive problems, should have nitro handy at all times, and if angina, hypertension or water retension is a problem while using HGH, should be put on clonidine to attenuate the problem.
I have been getting Saizen from RXUSA and paying $1500.00 for 30mg purchases. I am very interested in finding a less expensive source of HGH.
Hoping to hear from you soon,
David L Speer, MD
Last edited:
Gavin Kane
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Coached a few guys who insisted on doing it. Night time infusions with IV. I can't say that I saw anything more dramatic than using massive dosages. Side effects are more severe because it is a direct infusion method and does not have to cross any barriers. I do not recommend this to any amateurs, there is no need. Sometimes you do things at the top level that you feel you need to do to get an edge. Doesn't mean the trickle down theory to the masses makes it right.
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!!!
my boy used to swear by it, but i never saw a difference. he said he would sweat all nite long and he stayed lean no matter what. dont realy know if it did work any better or not.he was shredded year round even beat king kamali in the colligate nationals.
lucian
my boy used to swear by it, but i never saw a difference. he said he would sweat all nite long and he stayed lean no matter what. dont realy know if it did work any better or not.he was shredded year round even beat king kamali in the colligate nationals.
lucian
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God damn it you guys had to open the pandora's box on this one
Ok well lets get the protocal for future reference, Iv sounds like a shot but nightime sounds like a drip, before half the board has track marks somebody give the protocal
Ok well lets get the protocal for future reference, Iv sounds like a shot but nightime sounds like a drip, before half the board has track marks somebody give the protocal
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First let me just say I realize this is crazy talk having said that
It is my understanding then that an IV drip is to be used? Does this mean you cannot simply shoot the compound into the vein with an insulin syringe?If it is reconstituted with the supplied water in the kit?
Yes I know I am an idiot but can someone tell me if this is in fact safe from a medical perspective, I seem to think it may in fact be ok to do whether or not it is effective is another matter
It is my understanding then that an IV drip is to be used? Does this mean you cannot simply shoot the compound into the vein with an insulin syringe?If it is reconstituted with the supplied water in the kit?
Yes I know I am an idiot but can someone tell me if this is in fact safe from a medical perspective, I seem to think it may in fact be ok to do whether or not it is effective is another matter
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The guy I was reffering to here in my area was Just shooting in the Vein with an insulin pin....Not the Iv drip. Like I said hes still alive an all
and didnt seem to have any problems, But like you said this is all crazy talk to me
and didnt seem to have any problems, But like you said this is all crazy talk to me
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I don't know how safe it is, on another forum the talk centered on the risk off staph infection which is a very serious matter. Cormier got staph infection and he can barely walk now.
Gavin Kane
Banned
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Risk of infection is very real. See my abscess article. Look, I have helped guys do this in the past because as pointed out, most clinical trials with gh are by IV infusion. I am not really sure I want to open pandora's box here. This is reckless and I really don't want guys doing this.
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No,HGH is not usually given via IV even in a clinical setting.Most research indicates that there is little difference in the end result despite the mode of administration.The benefits vs risk makes it a no brainer.As everyone correctly points out the inherent risk of infection increases substantially when medications are given intravenously.
Nonetheless, this article makes some really interesting reading.Facing my own court case soon, so I feel the gentleman's pain.
Nonetheless, this article makes some really interesting reading.Facing my own court case soon, so I feel the gentleman's pain.
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