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Jay Cutler finally reveals his past steroid cycles

Joltan

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Not the study you are asking for but this is the one many refer to when they say ”500mg first cycle”.


600mg clearly builds more than 300mg but I think its not a linear curve going on forever.

Thanks for posting. This wasn't the study I was referring to, but it basically shows the same thing.

The biggest takeaway I remember from the other study was that 200-300mg seems to be the sweet spot where you get the most out of your dosage, while keeping side effects down.

LBM gains:
125mg/wk - 3.4kg
300mg/wk - 5.2kg
600mg/wk - 7.9kg

One thing to remember is that as test dosage goes up, the body holds more LBM in the form of water. So that makes the results even more in favor for lower doses... the small difference when doubling from 300mg to 600mg could be in large part due to water weight.
 

jeroendebleser

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Thanks for posting. This wasn't the study I was referring to, but it basically shows the same thing.

The biggest takeaway I remember from the other study was that 200-300mg seems to be the sweet spot where you get the most out of your dosage, while keeping side effects down.

LBM gains:
125mg/wk - 3.4kg
300mg/wk - 5.2kg
600mg/wk - 7.9kg

One thing to remember is that as test dosage goes up, the body holds more LBM in the form of water. So that makes the results even more in favor for lower doses... the small difference when doubling from 300mg to 600mg could be in large part due to water weight.
Logically there is a point of diminishing returns with escalating dosages but 2.7 kg more muscle going from 300 to 600 mg is still a lot imo...

It's a matter of personal opinion of course and especially if you find it worth it but the difference IS there because earlier you made it sound like there was almost no difference.
 

marssel

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Were you taking hcg or hmg to regain fertility?
For me both and a LOT of it but I was also 40 still I know if I’d done it at 35 it woulda Ben easier but still well over a year.
 

marssel

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I don't think that's accurate.

I'm talking about using as little as 500iu HCG once per week, or just a single 75iu vial of HMG per week.

At this dose, IMO, it's about as likely to cause desensitization as your natural HPTA is.

At least, that's what some endocrinologists who led this field have said in the past.

I know from my own personal experience in the past with never coming off cycle, for years, on both mega doses and TRT level doses, that either way, without HCG or HMG, my testicles shrunk, got cold to the touch, libido shrank to nothing ,suffered from ED, etc. But as little as 500iu HCG or 75iu HMG once per week, and they remained healthy, full, libido strong, etc. And it never stopped working or required a bigger dose.

Plus - HMG is actually pretty affordable. Direct on this board has it as low as just a few bucks per week, assuming you are doing the schedule I mentioned above.
I guess we agree to disagree but my nuts have always shrank and libido has never been an issue other than I wanna fuck all the time. Libido is controlled not by your testes but how you run your cycle set ups and estrogen maintenance (too much or too little is bad) but HCG is not a libido or ED treatment drug.
 

pickapeck

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Some people just have superior resonse to drugs, nutrition and training... like some top Olympians, shocker!!
 

Bio

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Thanks for posting. This wasn't the study I was referring to, but it basically shows the same thing.

The biggest takeaway I remember from the other study was that 200-300mg seems to be the sweet spot where you get the most out of your dosage, while keeping side effects down.

LBM gains:
125mg/wk - 3.4kg
300mg/wk - 5.2kg
600mg/wk - 7.9kg

One thing to remember is that as test dosage goes up, the body holds more LBM in the form of water. So that makes the results even more in favor for lower doses... the small difference when doubling from 300mg to 600mg could be in large part due to water weight.

Keep in mind the study specifically states that it was measuring fat free mass. They don't say how they measured it but it seems that they were specifically measuring LBM and an additional 6lbs of LBM at 600mg is substantial! Of course these were young men who were eugonadal and most likely never used hormones prior, so the effects on LBM are going to be extremely positive. If the same dosages were given to someone like me who's hypogonadal the results would be much less impressive.
 

alfresco

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It is unfortunate that this video has become so popular (I wish Jay was reading the responses and responding) because it is providing a scalpel that is easily wielded to cut out large chunks of discourse and label them nonsense or in some cases, outright lies.
 

headtrainer

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To recap

Went as high as 1g test but his sweet spot was 500mg and he liked stacking 500mg test with 600mg EQ
Didn't like deca
Went as high as 12iu HGH per day but 9iu was his sweet spot, but he said he felt it was very overrated.
Used insulin from 2001-2004 and then started working with Hany Rambod and he was against it. He never used insulin after this.
Came completely off for 12 weeks after contest cycles. Not even TRT. Says the biggest mistake people do these days is not come off between cycles. Said most pros including Ronnie also came off.
Used parabolian sometimes but only two 76mg ampules per week (152mg tren divided in two doses basically)
Used 1 or 2 anadrol 50's the last couple of years he was competing
Used prop, mast, halo, winstrol at certain times during prep (no doses mentioned)
Almost lost the Olympia to Victor Martinez because he had an infection from taking Winstrol
Currently on 1/2 to 1cc TRT test per week to keep his total testosterone levels between 600-800
I’ve been around too many competitive bodybuilders to believe this to be true. I believe Cutler was using year round and he is significantly downplaying the amount of hormones he used. He would have eaten dog crap if it allowed him to beat Ronnie Coleman. I would have preferred he not even mention how many hormones he supposedly used if he wasn’t going to be honest about it. I look at him in a different light now because I feel like he’s a liar! Just take a look at the current state of Jay’s biceps. You can tell they used to be pumped full of some kind of site enhancing oil because now he has no visible biceps. That’s my 2 cents.
 

headtrainer

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There’s no reason these guys lied???? Lol

Do you know how many guys look up to them?
Look how many bodybuilders have died recently.
If Jay says he won Olympia’s taking 2000mg Tren, 3000mg Test, etc, you’re going to get some kid on Tiktok or Reddit who is going to do the same. When he does and something goes wrong, he’ll say “well I heard jay cutler did it”

Not to mention they have sponsorships, etc.

Of course they lie about their dosages.
Exactly!
 

marssel

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Some people just have superior resonse to drugs, nutrition and training... like some top Olympians, shocker!!
I agree but none of them were taking 1,000 mg or less even going back to the 70s, in the 70s they are orals in wa way we woukd never do today but the careers were shorter guys are less, no slin no clen so u could get away with abusing orals for a decade at most especially since guys really came all the way off back then.
 

bellicose

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Some people just have superior resonse to drugs, nutrition and training... like some top Olympians, shocker!!
This is true. I witnessed it myself with a top level guy. He went on a trt dose and got bigger and shredded after already being 280lbs and jacked while clean.
IMO the top level guys might start with high doses but can eventually maintain and normal doses as they focus more on aesthetics.
 

MR. BMJ

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I can mostly believe him. I didn't watch it all, but i don't think he went entirely too much into his prep cycles, which were probably higher. I can see him using what he listed to get the size he needed, then backing down in later years to maintain. For those that remember, it was mentioned on here by a respected member who hinted that Jay was using 400mg/wk of test in the off-season for many of his later years...in addition to HGH, and probably slin if I had to guess on that part. I don't think he really had to push the gas once he got to size. Same with training, he trained heavy early, then backed down to higher volume bro-splits later in his career.....because he could. It was said he was a fan of Eq many years back, and he listed that in his interview.

This guy had one of the top genetics of all-time, I can believe he didn't need to do the amounts many think he did. He was consistent with training and meals for so many years, which are the key imo. I also think if he blasted the amounts many think he did, for the length of his very long career....I think he'd have major health problems or be dead by now. He's always been one of the healthier competitors from what i've heard.
 

marssel

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This is true. I witnessed it myself with a top level guy. He went on a trt dose and got bigger and shredded after already being 280lbs and jacked while clean.
IMO the top level guys might start with high doses but can eventually maintain and normal doses as they focus more on aesthetics.
280 lbs clean? Maybe Greg Slovaks who is dead. Unless you’re talking somebody who’s 6 feet tall Orr taller, has a high BF for an IFBB guy and been “clean” a short time. You can cycle off and have normal labs in weeks but you’re not “clean”. I think dude was lying to you, I’m not trying to be an Ass joke here I just have been at this 2 decades 5 of those years were in Arlington n, Tx with Branch, Johnny, Ronnie, and Gus along with guys who r top NPC come to think of it Stephen Frazier was in our gym a lot and he may have been 280 cycled off but cycled off for a short time and he’s well over 6 feet tall. Natty like hormone levels only occur after say 6-8 months off, more like a year and even then you’re not natty. When on fertility I stayed over 250, I’m 5’7 but my BF doubled had I been around 10% I would’ve been closer to 200 and no I’m not an IFBB pro but I’m a big guy who really never goes over 1,00mg combined- Now where you were spot on is after 3 years off I got on a trt dose to start back up and I gained 30lbs in about 5 weeks, yes I know much of that was simply cellular volume but I do agree if you r a hyper responder TRT will work if youre levels are low but if you have normal levels and you’re under 30 say, going on trt would likely hurt you bc your body is better at maintaining perfect pulse dosing until you take exogenous test or get older then try matters to nattys. I totally agree most prods once established can take less, I’m running 500 right now and getting from it what I used to get from a gram but I also don’t need to get much bigger at this point I just lean out and work on symmetry and fullness. I say this bc a lot of guys put too much emphasis on drugs be it assuming high doses or hyper sensitivity where in the end diet and training (lifestyle) is the primary indicator of success it’s why guys like Jay, Dorian, Ronnie and Phil made it whereas Chris, , Shawn, Flex, Dillett, McQuay to name the ones I know of first hand never reached potential bc they partied too much.
 

btails

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EVERY pro I have ever talked to in person (numerous) told me a completely different story once I got to know them a bit and they knew I wasn't some dum fuck.

They're not going to go public and spout what they really do.

Some of these guys took bostin llyod type cycles and other were more luki style doses.

Either way all of them were different but the "real" cycle was always different then what they normally tell people.

Fuck, even I lie about my cycles (im far from anything special so dont get it twisted) because I just don't want to talk about it with the average person.

This isn't a jab at these guys either. The normal person doesn't need to know what they use, there is no gain in them knowing.

I was young and dum at one point. A pro told me to take 5 grams of test... didn't do me any good lol.

So yes, Jay is likely lying. But he's doing it with good intentions and if you paid your dues and looked like bboy I'm sure he's more comfortable telling you the truth.
 

nothuman

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Well my hematocrit is 60 a lot of the time and Bjarne Riis is still alive today so that's good for me
Not that anyone asked, but I just got labs back yesterday and all of a sudden my HCT is 53 and my HG is 18.

Victory!
 

Bobik

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Not that anyone asked, but I just got labs back yesterday and all of a sudden my HCT is 53 and my HG is 18.

Victory!
It also sometimes comes down to me, especially in the diet, when I weigh a few pounds less. I understand you, always a feeling of victory 😊
 

alfresco

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FYI

My doc wants my hematocrit around 40. I told him me too but I told no fucking (my exact words) that is not going to happen.

It is usually 50 to 53.

He said to drop the test. Again I said no fucking way as my body after I have been on TRT for over 15 years, no way I am capable of producing testosterone on its own. He agreed.

So there we stand, we agree to disagree.

I’m am still on TRT.

There is more to the story but I will leave leave it at that for the time being.

Otherwise, as of now, I am healthy as a horse to use an old saying.
 

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