KIDNEY FAILURE--WTF

[T TOTAL]

Basically had gone via my GP for a wellmans check in July and subsequently had bloodwork done.

Liver enzymes ALT were raised alot back then ( AS EXPECTED ) but have dropped down to 78 which ive been told isn't a concern for me. Urea and Creatanine were high too which due to muscle mass and high protein intake is expected to be elevated but the GP still says i should be concerned re them.

However, 2hrs after my 1st bloodtest in July i got a call from a Dr asking if i'd been in an accident or had any major injuries etc as my CK ( Think means Creatanine Kilate ) levels were sky high and this would indicate this. Told him none whatsoever then told hiom i was a bodybuilder which he says may explain this but was still high. It was just over 4000 when normal is apparently just over 100 or so. I had been training the day before. I had to take a couple of days off then had a retest and it dropped to just over 1000.
That Dr put this down to training.

Now i had been referred to a consultant Monday gone ( 18/08/08 ) due to the original ALT readings and i got lectured re my use of test and potential damage to my liver. But he was more concerned re my CK levels which he told me were toxic to my kidneys and caused by steroid use.

He went through numerous symtons/sighns re Kidney problems, examined me and i had nothing noticed, but he still said i had a degree of Kidney failure in July judging by my CK level. Yet ive never felt better.

I had just trained heavy that morning, 2hrs earlier,but still had to have another blood test for allsorts.
He's just phoned me and told me my ALT reading was lower again but the reason for the call was my CK had raised to almost 5000. He also told me that the kidney function test was perfect but this CK reading was way way to high and would cause kidney damage/failure- apparantly. Ive to go for another test tomorrow to make sure its not rising.
I know for a fact it will of dropped as i only done a few sets of calf raises today as an extra due to a show looming so by the time i go tomorrow i'll of had abit of rest.

This has kind of freaked me out as im planning on competeing in October.
Its worth noting that a marathon runners CK readings after a marathon would be in 10's of thousands aftera marathon. I was aware of this and he also told me this. So surely the ammount of miles they run in training would still cause it to be elevated greatly?

I asked if the fact that my kidney function test was normal does this not contradict the CK reading? Apparantly not as he states it hasn't damaged them yet. Even though ive cycled on and off for years.

What on earth should i do, open to suggestions from anyone with knowledge here?
__________________

 

[james001]

what type of dosages are you using??

 

[diesel158]

Scary stuff. did the doctor say that not training before the tests would give a more accurate or lower reading? and good luck with this.

 

[Neanderthal]

How much water you getting a day?

I know people that have gotten gout from having a high urea content. Dude drank nothing but beer and coffee. Seen him years later after he quit drinking beer and the gout went away. Flush them kidneys with water. It cant hurt.

 

[T TOTAL]

what type of dosages are you using??

For the last test i had been on 1g sust and 600mg Equipoise so nothing really outrageous.

 

[T TOTAL]

Scary stuff. did the doctor say that not training before the tests would give a more accurate or lower reading? and good luck with this.

Yeh thats why on previous tests when it had dropped to 1000 ish i had been told to have a couple of days off. Perhaps with longer off i may of got a lower reading.
Apparantly the 1000 reading is still way to high and toxic

 

[fr8lnr01]

How much do you weigh? Are you taking creatine? He needs to do a 24hr urine . Check your GFR. Are you training hard and also including other strenuous activity during the day including cardio? Albeit high you may have a larger muscle mass to substantiate the levels. Are you dieting right now, if so, what type of diet? Ketogenic?

 

[JAG]

Do not train for a few days to a week off and get blood work done again. This is why doc asked about accidents. He may not fully realize the intensity at which some people train. This could account for high reading since you said you trained a few hours before test.

 

[wakejump4me]

did you go on empty stomach for blood test ? had creatine before blood test ? trained the day before (this will throw off your liver stats for sure ) ?

i had a similar thing happen to me . i ad a good breakfast and then had my blood test 30 min. later . i also had approx. 6 g of CEE with breakfast . on the same day my doctor had already a Bed reserved for me at the center for Neuphrology (spelling ? )

i had to collect 48 hour urine . LOL i returned a few gallons of piss

anyways , after going back and explaining that i took creatine and such and trained , everything made sense to the doc . make sure to go back and not train a few days prior blood test and on empty stomach and i would stop supps too a few days prior .

wake

 

[maldorf]

Just found this post which supports what your doctor is telling you.
**broken link removed**

 

[dan525]

Try googling an article by John Berardi and ck bun , creatinine levels. Both bun and creatinine are often elevated in muscular athletes. The ratio is a bigger concern. Have your doc due a simple urine test to check for protein. If your kidneys are failing and you are eating 300+ grams of protein/day there would probably be an indication of this by urine. MY guess is it will be negative. The high cpk levels are usually a red flag that something serious is going on such as heart attack, major trauma etc. The more muscle an athlete has damaged the higher the level. IF a marathon runner can get into the 10 thousands, it would make sense that someone carrying and damaging an extra 50-100 pounds of muscle , could have a very high cpk. I also have a theory that underground juice can raise cpk. Due to the amount of BA or other irritant that is causing a reaction in the muscle. IM injections of legit gear will raise cpk. IF you have a painful shot of UG stuff it will be high. Good luck!!

 

[T TOTAL]

How much do you weigh? Are you taking creatine? He needs to do a 24hr urine . Check your GFR. Are you training hard and also including other strenuous activity during the day including cardio? Albeit high you may have a larger muscle mass to substantiate the levels. Are you dieting right now, if so, what type of diet? Ketogenic?

i was 17 stone for the tests. Can't recall if i was on creatine as i had been randomly cycling it.
Whats GFR??? Am i missing something there with that?

Yeh training hard and heavy as always along with cardio just about twice daily for 30 mins each on a stationary bike. And i am dieting too, high protein low carb diet.

Ive tried telling the Dr that i train heavy etcetc but he still feels the levels are still to high.

 

[T TOTAL]

Try googling an article by John Berardi and ck bun , creatinine levels. Both bun and creatinine are often elevated in muscular athletes. The ratio is a bigger concern. Have your doc due a simple urine test to check for protein. If your kidneys are failing and you are eating 300+ grams of protein/day there would probably be an indication of this by urine. MY guess is it will be negative. The high cpk levels are usually a red flag that something serious is going on such as heart attack, major trauma etc. The more muscle an athlete has damaged the higher the level. IF a marathon runner can get into the 10 thousands, it would make sense that someone carrying and damaging an extra 50-100 pounds of muscle , could have a very high cpk. I also have a theory that underground juice can raise cpk. Due to the amount of BA or other irritant that is causing a reaction in the muscle. IM injections of legit gear will raise cpk. IF you have a painful shot of UG stuff it will be high. Good luck!!

Ive had urine checked mate and that was negative for protein. Also the kidney funtion tests have been perfect too

 

[Massive G]

Just found this post which supports what your doctor is telling you.
**broken link removed**

I found that article intriguing to say the least I don't have a lot of time to discuss it but would like to start a thread later basically on training and the kidneys and stress it creates above and beyond normal limits and if that really effects the kidneys enough for renal damage and failure-and it will also include some discussion on protein in the urine after heavy training.
Thanks for the link.

 

[gettnlarge]

GFR is a result used by the Nationional Kidney Foudation to use your age, and creatinine and race to determine your possible kidney failure.
GL

 

[maldorf]

I found that article intriguing to say the least I don't have a lot of time to discuss it but would like to start a thread later basically on training and the kidneys and stress it creates above and beyond normal limits and if that really effects the kidneys enough for renal damage and failure-and it will also include some discussion on protein in the urine after heavy training.
Thanks for the link.

I was shocked to see this article, and saw other research in my search that supported this. It just doesnt make sense though, emprically. We dont see bodybuilders and other athletes routinely developing kidney failure. Something just doesnt sound right.

 

[BigNJ]

First and foremost he should test you for Blood and Protein in the urine.

If they find, blood and/or protein (normal protien should be 0) in urine then the next step is a kidney biopsy to determine what's going on in the kidneys.

Creatinine levels in bodybuilders are way higher than an average person.
So if you don't have any blood and/or protien in the urine, you are fine.

 

[T TOTAL]

I was shocked to see this article, and saw other research in my search that supported this. It just doesnt make sense though, emprically. We dont see bodybuilders and other athletes routinely developing kidney failure. Something just doesnt sound right.

This is what confuses me as my kidney function readings were perfect and i also showed no symptons/signs of any kidney problems yet this CK was high. Like ive said though im aware that this is caused by hard and heavy training.

I have just spoke to a Dr from a Drug use in sports clinic who specialises in its use and he confirms i need not worry as it is an expected and acceptable reading if i train to exhaustion. He did say however research as of yet is inconclusive to long term problems, but upto now im not showing any at all.

He said because i had just had 2 weeks from training and the last test was done after my 1st week back he would be moreconcerned if CK lewvels were not raised as i was aching from getting back into training and the last test was 2hrs after a good hard session.

Settled my mind abit.

Oh and he said he didnt beleive steroids would be what raises the ck too.

 

[T TOTAL]

First and foremost he should test you for Blood and Protein in the urine.

If they find, blood and/or protein (normal protien should be 0) in urine then the next step is a kidney biopsy to determine what's going on in the kidneys.

Creatinine levels in bodybuilders are way higher than an average person.
So if you don't have any blood and/or protien in the urine, you are fine.

I had it done and it was fine