Lab Results

[bad rad]

They use neuroblastoma cells (upreg Ca2+ signalling) to make the conclusion that high testosterone levels cause neural cell death

You'd have to dig into this, but pretty sure neuroblastoma cells have a different makeup to that of a regular cell (usually any form of cancer cell has some p53 and oncogene malfunction) making them more resistant to apop/cell death

Lots of background info needed to understand this better; it can be either that it doesn't have that much correlation to actual neurons, or even more adverse effects on regular neurons making us far more retarded

Thanks for clarifying the other parts though. I'm not very educated on the brain make up and issues related to hormone effects on it.

 

[emeric delczeg]

That’s your response for them being in “very dangerous levels”?

That is just one of the side effects, it can cause early stage of Dementia, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's and other mental problems.

 

[emeric delczeg]

Is not me to suggest to anyone how many g`s of test to inject, is all up to each of you. Just sharing the protentional side effects on long term of use. However, I do take care my own health for my self safety.

 

[Type-IIx]

That is just one of the side effects, it can cause early stage of Dementia, Alzheimer's and Parkinson's and other mental problems.

The evidence on this is extremely weak. The thinker is correct, cancer cells act so differently (and universally these studies use absurdly high doses) to in vivo cells that this cannot be considered valid evidence of AAS-induced neurotoxicity. There is evidence, also quite weak, of AAS treatment in rats affecting both the dopaminergic as well as the serotonergic systems of the brain. More significantly, AAS affect the GABA as well as the glutamate system.

There is far from any conclusive evidence of irreversible neurotoxicity/dementia being induced by AAS. Also, rhGH seems to ameliorate many of these issues.

 

[emeric delczeg]

The evidence on this is extremely weak. The thinker is correct, cancer cells act so differently (and universally these studies use absurdly high doses) to in vivo cells that this cannot be considered valid evidence of AAS-induced neurotoxicity. There is evidence, also quite weak, of AAS treatment in rats affecting both the dopaminergic as well as the serotonergic systems of the brain. More significantly, AAS affect the GABA as well as the glutamate system.

There is far from any conclusive evidence of irreversible neurotoxicity/dementia being induced by AAS. Also, rhGH seems to ameliorate many of these issues.

Yes testosterone is very beneficial, that why I am using it daily, for the positive benefits me must keep our levels in the normal range, will not happen with 1g per week.

 

[Gorilla_Waters]

He's referring to this study and Emeric is extremely health conscious, hence the statement.

A Yale School of Medicine study shows for the first time that a high level of testosterone, such as that caused by the use of steroids to increase muscle mass or for replacement therapy, can lead to a catastrophic loss of brain cells.

Elevated Testosterone Kills Nerve Cells

A Yale School of Medicine study shows for the first time that a high level of testosterone, such as that caused by the use of steroids to increase muscle mass or for replacement therapy, can lead to a catastrophic loss of brain cells.

www.sciencedaily.com

Thank you! Given the droves of men doing a gram or more a week. I would say this study exist in a vacuum.

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

He's referring to this study and Emeric is extremely health conscious, hence the statement.

A Yale School of Medicine study shows for the first time that a high level of testosterone, such as that caused by the use of steroids to increase muscle mass or for replacement therapy, can lead to a catastrophic loss of brain cells.

Elevated Testosterone Kills Nerve Cells

A Yale School of Medicine study shows for the first time that a high level of testosterone, such as that caused by the use of steroids to increase muscle mass or for replacement therapy, can lead to a catastrophic loss of brain cells.

www.sciencedaily.com

Was this ever corroborated? The author seems just from this little article to have pre existing bias.

 

[Type-IIx]

Is not me to suggest to anyone how many g`s of test to inject, is all up to each of you. Just sharing the protentional side effects on long term of use. However, I do take care my own health for my self safety.

I very much enjoy your 10mg thread, emeric. No questioning of your practices, just focusing on the strength/weaknesses of the study referenced by someone else altogether!

 

[Gorilla_Waters]

Let’s say this study is true. Wouldn’t that mean in theory that other AAS would cause the same effect?

 

[Type-IIx]

Let’s say this study is true. Wouldn’t that mean in theory that other AAS would cause the same effect?

Sure. I mean, I feel slower (I am sure my IQ lowers) on tren, it's noticeable. Surely, there are some maladies in cognitive function caused by very high dosages and more potent androgens are worse. I notice difficulty with recollection while on cycle and especially with tren. But it doesn't seem to be permanent, and I doubt there are substantial permanent cognitive alterations by AAS. Nothing that rhGH can't improve significantly. There is research on rhGH treatment for AAS-induced cognitive deficits (there's research from Grönbladh which I call the Grönbladh series) focused on GH's benefits for cognitive function in our population. Considering that even the left ventricular hypertrophy and cardiac dysfunction induced by AAS is reversible when exposure to high dosages is transient (you know, until things go so far as to require surgery; or you continue to BnC well above TRT), I doubt there are again, keyword - substantial - cognitive alterations by AAS.

 

[heavyhitter]

Hey, thanks for that info. I will probably be adjusting how I do that cycle then. Didn't know that about the clots. Thanks again

Definitely at least consider a daily baby aspirin

 

[slesh]

I made this post to confirm my DHEA levels are typical for being on that much Test. Does exogenous Test have that lowering effect on DHEA? This was my first time testing it...

 

[Type-IIx]

I made this post to confirm my DHEA levels are typical for being on that much Test. Does exogenous Test have that lowering effect on DHEA? This was my first time testing it...

Generally, yeah, the Δ4 pathway of T biosynthesis ⇒ reduced DHEA, exogenous T will increase metabolism via this pathway, and there will be down-regulation of adrenal androgen biosynthesis. Some people metabolize T differently, and with the addition of Proviron especially, may see the opposite.

 

[slesh]

Generally, yeah, the Δ4 pathway of T biosynthesis ⇒ reduced DHEA, exogenous T will increase metabolism via this pathway, and there will be down-regulation of adrenal androgen biosynthesis. Some people metabolize T differently, and with the addition of Proviron especially, may see the opposite.

That’s what I thought. Appreciate the response. Would I benefit from Proviron for the “sense of well-being” effect?

 

[Type-IIx]

That’s what I thought. Appreciate the response. Would I benefit from Proviron for the “sense of well-being” effect?

In my view, Proviron is only useful if it's commercially available to you very affordably and you're using it while dropping precipitously from a high dosage to TRT (to maintain that "well being"/libido), and even then it's very questionable since it can increase DHEA synthesis so profoundly in some by blocking the Δ5 pathway of T synthesis, and causes real withdrawal for many after chronic usage. It has some benefits for hardening, but there are better androgens out there for this.

 

[maldorf]

Sure. I mean, I feel slower (I am sure my IQ lowers) on tren, it's noticeable. Surely, there are some maladies in cognitive function caused by very high dosages and more potent androgens are worse. I notice difficulty with recollection while on cycle and especially with tren. But it doesn't seem to be permanent, and I doubt there are substantial permanent cognitive alterations by AAS. Nothing that rhGH can't improve significantly. There is research on rhGH treatment for AAS-induced cognitive deficits (there's research from Grönbladh which I call the Grönbladh series) focused on GH's benefits for cognitive function in our population. Considering that even the left ventricular hypertrophy and cardiac dysfunction induced by AAS is reversible when exposure to high dosages is transient (you know, until things go so far as to require surgery; or you continue to BnC well above TRT), I doubt there are again, keyword - substantial - cognitive alterations by AAS.

I got to thinking about this and checked up on things. I was thinking that women have a higher incidence of Alzheimer's and senile dementia, and they do even at younger ages. The thing though is that those men arent on very high doses of testosterone, they are running on normal biologic levels.

 

[Type-IIx]

I got to thinking about this and checked up on things. I was thinking that women have a higher incidence of Alzheimer's and senile dementia, and they do even at younger ages. The thing though is that those men arent on very high doses of testosterone, they are running on normal biologic levels.

Which men are you referring to bro?

 

[emeric delczeg]

Let’s say this study is true. Wouldn’t that mean in theory that other AAS would cause the same effect?

Yes, especially Trenbolone.

 

[maldorf]

Which men are you referring to bro?

Normal men that arent taking any exogenous test. Those would be the men that are referenced when coming to the conclusion that women have a higer incidence. Just the normal population. It could be different in men that are juiced up.

 

[maldorf]

Yes, especially Trenbolone.

Did a study show that steroids that have a higher androgenic rating have the effect more?