Longest cycle

[heavyiron]

Age-40 weight-235 body fat-13% Bench-425 Cycles-20+ Longest off-8 years
Average cycle-9 weeks long, Average dose T 750 mg week

11 weeks into cycle, stopping for 1 week to get blood test. If all is normal I am cosidering another 8 weeks @ 500 mg per week while dieting. Goal is less bodyfat while holding muscle. What are your experiences with such a long cycle? Any advice is appreciated.
Thanks

 

[Emmortal]

I've run 24 week cycles with no problems, blood work done before, on and after with minor increases in cholesterol levels, but nothing significant.

 

[Dad]

Long cycles suppress HPT axis severely - the longer on and/or the higher the doses, the worse this is.

What this means is:
*LOTS of potential for side effects
*LONG recovery time in restoring HPT axis function
*HUGE chance to lose back all gains during this lag time between the cycle and restoration of normal HPT axis function
*Increased potential for injury as muscle cells grow and respond to AAS much more quickly that connective tissue
*The need for ancillary drugs and complicated, long-term PCT to try and avoid some of the problems associated with HPT axis suppression

That's just off the top of my head - notice how none of this is a good thing...

 

[youngmuscle]

Long cycles suppress HPT axis severely - the longer on and/or the higher the doses, the worse this is.

What this means is:
*LOTS of potential for side effects
*LONG recovery time in restoring HPT axis function
*HUGE chance to lose back all gains during this lag time between the cycle and restoration of normal HPT axis function
*Increased potential for injury as muscle cells grow and respond to AAS much more quickly that connective tissue
*The need for ancillary drugs and complicated, long-term PCT to try and avoid some of the problems associated with HPT axis suppression

That's just off the top of my head - notice how none of this is a good thing...

yes, all true.

but you forgot to add that the longer you stay on, the more gains you get...

to some people the pro's out weigh the con's..

 

[Emmortal]

Personally, I prefer running longer, lower dose cycles with slow and steady gains. This allows for the body to adjust the added mass your putting on instead of putting into shock for 8-12 weeks which I've found, for at least myself personally, to loose much more of my gains this way. Staying on longer at a lower dose and tapering off toward the end I've never had any problems with this. I also run HCG on every cycle as well and never have problems with recovery.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[Dad]

yes, all true.

but you forgot to add that the longer you stay on, the more gains you get...

to some people the pro's out weigh the con's..

Actually, no - staying on longer does not increase gains after a point, but the problems DO increase.

 

[Dad]

Personally, I prefer running longer, lower dose cycles with slow and steady gains. This allows for the body to adjust the added mass your putting on instead of putting into shock for 8-12 weeks which I've found, for at least myself personally, to loose much more of my gains this way. Staying on longer at a lower dose and tapering off toward the end I've never had any problems with this. I also run HCG on every cycle as well and never have problems with recovery.

Your mileage may vary.

Depending upon what yuo classify as "low," I would agree that this can work. Yuo still have the HPT axis suppression to deal with, but I think there's some merit in this idea of not shocking the body. Now, of course, authors like Borresson, ALR, etc might disagree, but I still think the lowest dose yuo can use and make pregress is the way to go.

It seems perhaps the problem comes in when people think they should be putting on 20+ lbs per cycle or more. Possible in the first cycle under ideal training and diet conditions? Sure. Possible over years? Probably not weithout exceptional genetics - the genetics to grow AND tolerate the drug use without serious side effects.

 

[phreak]

yes, all true.

but you forgot to add that the longer you stay on, the more gains you get...

to some people the pro's out weigh the con's..

...and these are the people who are usually a flash in the pan, the people who think bbing is a sprint to the most mass possible, instead of a marathon where the long term goal is a good physique and longevity.

they are usually young kids like yourself, whose impatience and willful ignorance far outweighs any potential they have. i have watched these kids come and go many, many times over the past 14 years.

these are the guys who get the side effects that put them in the doctor's office, where they add fuel to the fire of the increasingly ignorant medical community's view of anabolics.

a wise old bber once told me- "the star that burns brightest burns out first."

 

[heavyiron]

Personally, I prefer running longer, lower dose cycles with slow and steady gains. This allows for the body to adjust the added mass your putting on instead of putting into shock for 8-12 weeks which I've found, for at least myself personally, to loose much more of my gains this way. Staying on longer at a lower dose and tapering off toward the end I've never had any problems with this. I also run HCG on every cycle as well and never have problems with recovery.

Your mileage may vary.

Thanks for the reply
I also run hcg during @ 250 iu 4x a week. This seems to really help with recovery. I have tried various methods for ending and tapering also works best for me.
What do you think about the 500mg per week? What do you consider low dose?

 

[james001]

In my experience the longer I stayed on the more improvements I made.. gains just kept coming… and coming and coming. Low dose also.

If I did a short cycle nothing would happen… I would be off before the magic begins.

 

[youngmuscle]

What's your cycle look like and what do you have planned for PCT?

right now its just

300mg sust eod/50mg clomid eod.
for pct i have nolva, clomid, arimidex.

 

[abadseal]

...and these are the people who are usually a flash in the pan, the people who think bbing is a sprint to the most mass possible, instead of a marathon where the long term goal is a good physique and longevity.

they are usually young kids like yourself, whose impatience and willful ignorance far outweighs any potential they have. i have watched these kids come and go many, many times over the past 14 years.

these are the guys who get the side effects that put them in the doctor's office, where they add fuel to the fire of the increasingly ignorant medical community's view of anabolics.

a wise old bber once told me- "the star that burns brightest burns out first."

Great post.

I remember DAD and a few other mods preaching about short cycles a year or 2 ago so I did research on them and I'm glad I did because I will never again go beyond 6-8 weeks.

BTW thanks DAD and the others for the enlightenment.

 

[rotty]

right now its just

300mg sust eod/50mg clomid eod.
for pct i have nolva, clomid, arimidex.

This is your first cycle and you're runing 300mg of sustanon eod? I think you should do some searching on this site and you will see that no one is going to recommend you do that much test. especially it being your first cycle. Most would probablt say 300mgs/wk would be enough for your first cycle. Why would you start with so much? You will probably get the same gains off of 300mgs/eod that you would have 300mgs/wk. Where do you go from here. 1500mgs/wk of test and 1000mgs of deca and 100mgs/day of d-bol? More is not better. I also think that your comments about the pros outweighing the cons shows that you shouldn't be doing anything yet. Thats not the mindset you should have and its not responsible to post it

 

[youngmuscle]

This is your first cycle and you're runing 300mg of sustanon eod? I think you should do some searching on this site and you will see that no one is going to recommend you do that much test. especially it being your first cycle. Most would probablt say 300mgs/wk would be enough for your first cycle. Why would you start with so much? You will probably get the same gains off of 300mgs/eod that you would have 300mgs/wk. Where do you go from here. 1500mgs/wk of test and 1000mgs of deca and 100mgs/day of d-bol? More is not better. I also think that your comments about the pros outweighing the cons shows that you shouldn't be doing anything yet. Thats not the mindset you should have and its not responsible to post it

how would i get the same gains out of 300 mg per week that i would at 300 eod..? that doesnt make mjuch sense to me... the reason i am gaining muscle fatser than i was naturally is because i have more test running through my system than i did naturally. so more test=faster muscl growth.. then why does 300mg eod not produce better results than 300 mg per week?

doesnt make any sense to me.


(honest question....not trying to argue your point. just want to know why that would be so.)

 

[SVFootball]

how would i get the same gains out of 300 mg per week that i would at 300 eod..? that doesnt make mjuch sense to me... the reason i am gaining muscle fatser than i was naturally is because i have more test running through my system than i did naturally. so more test=faster muscl growth.. then why does 300mg eod not produce better results than 300 mg per week?

doesnt make any sense to me.


(honest question....not trying to argue your point. just want to know why that would be so.)

thats not the point. the point is you're using too much for your first cycle. thats a minimum of 900mg per week. thats insane. the highest ive ever seen recommended for a first cycle is 500mg/week, and most think thats high.

shoulda done your research man...thats way too much way too soon

 

[Dad]

right now its just

300mg sust eod/50mg clomid eod.
for pct i have nolva, clomid, arimidex.

Yuo're proposing over 900 mg a week for a first cycle - this is nutty and unwarranted.

Yuo have NO idea what sort of side effect profile yuo're prone to, and with this much drug yuo can be sure of one thing - yuo'll get them all!

I gotta' say, yuor comments and proposals in general are reckless and poorly thought out (if at all). From the T3 idea, to this, to using Clomid every other day - where'd yuo get the Clomid idea? What makes yo think this is something to do?

These are rhetorical questions - something to hopefully get yuo to think about what yuo're doing.

 

[rotty]

how would i get the same gains out of 300 mg per week that i would at 300 eod..? that doesnt make mjuch sense to me... the reason i am gaining muscle fatser than i was naturally is because i have more test running through my system than i did naturally. so more test=faster muscl growth.. then why does 300mg eod not produce better results than 300 mg per week?

doesnt make any sense to me.


(honest question....not trying to argue your point. just want to know why that would be so.)

By that reasoning...why not take 5000mgs/wk? If you are gaining on 900-1200mgs/wk, wouldn't 5000mgs/wk be 5 times better? You need to do some research bro. How do you know what you would have gained off of 300mgs/wk? You don't!!!! You will probably gain 20-25 pounds off of your first cycle, that is what most people seem to get from their first cycle and most of it will be water. What if you gained 15-20 pounds from 300mgs/wk? is 5-10 not solid pounds of muscle worth increasing your chances of sides and having to use more later on.? You set yourself up for failure later. How old are you? Are you still a teenager? If you are you need to think about long term too. Taking large doses at a young age you take a chance of fucking up HPTA permanently. Do you ever want to have kids? Like I said....where do you go from here? How much is in your next cycle, and the cycle after that, and the cycle after that. If you started at 300mgs/wk and weren't getting any gains, you could have always added to it. You can't take it away. Once you inject it, you own it. You are getting bad advice from somewhere and if you are doing this on your own you need to grow the fuck up. It's people like you that just start taking shit without knowing what the fuck you are doing or what the ramifications are that is giving our community a bad reputation. Do some research on AST and ALT. Playing with steroids can fuck you up and you need to realize that before you post some ignorant shit like that again.

 

[Chim Chim]

how would i get the same gains out of 300 mg per week that i would at 300 eod..? that doesnt make mjuch sense to me... the reason i am gaining muscle fatser than i was naturally is because i have more test running through my system than i did naturally. so more test=faster muscl growth.. then why does 300mg eod not produce better results than 300 mg per week?

doesnt make any sense to me.


(honest question....not trying to argue your point. just want to know why that would be so.)

Wow, you really pissed people off. There are 2 major reason for using the littlest dose possible to get good effects while minimizing side affects for the use of any drug. One: Your receptors/body become tolerant of a dose of a drug, and then you have to increase the dose to get the same response. Two: Kinda goes a long with One. Your receptors down-regulate, this pertains more to the HPT axis. Because your androgen receptors will respond to increasing doses of test, hence the reference to 5000mg/wk. With massive doses of test, your body with increase estrogen production to maintain homeostasis, or balance. Putting it simply, increased estrogen equals increased sides, and more drugs to prevent those side affects. this is not good for your liver. By the way liver transplant patients don't live long, or happy lives. Try doing some research on the human body before jabbing that needle in your ass again. Specifically the endocrine system, and some cell. bio. Then you will understand why people are pissed at your posts. hope this helps.

 

[heavyiron]

I must say that I cringed when I read how much youngmuscle is taking a week. My first cycle was at age 22 and I took similar doseges for 2 weeks at the peak of a 8 week cycle. I look back now and realize it was too much. I had not reached my genetic potential and could have achieved the same gains if I would have studied nutrition and recovery more. Granted it would have taken longer. I can't judge you youngmuscle or I would be a hypocrite. But we care about your health. At the very least go get some blood work done. You may be suprised at your cholesterol levels to say the least.

 

[Dad]

I must say that I cringed when I read how much youngmuscle is taking a week. My first cycle was at age 22 and I took similar doseges for 2 weeks at the peak of a 8 week cycle. I look back now and realize it was too much. I had not reached my genetic potential and could have achieved the same gains if I would have studied nutrition and recovery more. Granted it would have taken longer. I can't judge you youngmuscle or I would be a hypocrite. But we care about your health. At the very least go get some blood work done. You may be suprised at your cholesterol levels to say the least.

Didn't mean for yuor initial post ot get hijacked, Heavy - hope yuo at least got some useful input on yuor original questions.

And, yeah, yuo can judge 'cause yuo've been through it and learned - he hasn't.