Lumbar Fusion Surgery

[Bio]

My MRI Image

I thought I would post up an MRI image of a healthy lumbar spine and mine. One thing to keep in mind...Healthy discs should be white in color and the vertebrae should be fairly smooth and straight. You'll know which image is mine! LOL!!

One thing I'd like to point out. On my L4-5 vertebrae, you'll notice lighter coloring on those above and below the disc. That is from severe inflammation that caused the vertebrae to "swell" and become disfigured. That alone is causing me a good amount of pain!

 

[GettingBackIn]

I've had back problems for a long time. Meeting with a dr about back surgery in a couple hours. I've tried everything conservative and can't get the pain in my back and leg to stop.

 

[Thunder46]

I have a question for those of you that had or know someone that had an unsuccessful lumbar fusion, did any of you have a discogram first? Discogram's aren't always definitive but it's a tool that can be used to try and narrow down which areas are really giving off pain. I'm having one. I'm just waiting to hear when.

Another reason for a lot of failed back surgeries, sadly, is because there are a lot of people with back issues that aren't good candidates for surgery. What I mean is, the issue is real but statistically current surgical procedures aren't successful on those issues. The problem is, there are doctors that will perform surgery regardless, because that's what they do for a living. In turn, it really skews the numbers.

I read a good book a couple of years ago. It's called, "Do You Really Need Back Surgery" by Dr Aaron G. Filler.

Bio i have degenerative disc and need a fusion in the same place as you, i have put it off for years now because everyone i spoke to that had a lumbar fusion told me they were still in pain, the last surgeon i talked to said i they have a procedure called disc replacement i am considering having it done

 

[Bio]

Bio i have degenerative disc and need a fusion in the same place as you, i have put it off for years now because everyone i spoke to that had a lumbar fusion told me they were still in pain, the last surgeon i talked to said i they have a procedure called disc replacement i am considering having it done

Hey Thunder! Funny you should mention disc replacement. I saw my doctor yesterday and I asked about that. You have to remember, they are still gathering a lot of evidence / feedback and this procedure. Anyway, my doctor informed me that what they're seeing, is that regardless of the disc replacement, the vertebrae are showing a tendency to fuse naturally over the artificial disc. Just to be clear, my doctor is a dedicated spine surgeon. By dedicated, I mean he doesn't deal with any other areas of the body. He's very accomplished. So that was very interesting. The fusion wasn't causing any negative side effects in the patients. In fact, they weren't aware it was happening, it was picked up on scans during periodic follow up appointments.

 

[Gravyv]

What are you currently doing for your back pain? I have a bad disc as well. My neurosurgeon told me that a fusion can limit your mobility and he recommended a disc replacement instead since I was a good candidate. With that said, he said I should surgery only if my pain becomes unbearable because there's no guarantee surgery will completely fix it.

 

[kubes]

I thought I would post up an MRI image of a healthy lumbar spine and mine. One thing to keep in mind...Healthy discs should be white in color and the vertebrae should be fairly smooth and straight. You'll know which image is mine! LOL!!

One thing I'd like to point out. On my L4-5 vertebrae, you'll notice lighter coloring on those above and below the disc. That is from severe inflammation that caused the vertebrae to "swell" and become disfigured. That alone is causing me a good amount of pain!

Bro those discs look pretty bad but you do still have space left between the vertebra. My l5s1 was worse to be honest but my l4l5 is almost normal. Hopefully you get some relief soon i know back pain can put a real strain on life. How many spine dr's have you gotten opinions from?

 

[todkbear]

I've always had lumbar problems, which finally hit an all time worse about three years ago. I had complete herniations in both the L4-L5 and L5-S1 discs. It was without a doubt the most painful thing I have ever experienced. I could not move my left leg, and was popping Vicodin and muscle relaxers like Tic-Tacs. Spinal fusion was suggested as a possible solution by a physician at the spine clinic I went to, but he also told me that while it would solve the problem in that area my L3-L4 disc would now take the brunt of any compression...After a ton of research, I ended up having an epidural done. I iced my back, used microcurrent stem daily, went to a very conservative chiropractor twice a week, and walked daily as much as possible. As soon as I was able I started doing the exercises Dr. Stuart McGill recommends (Bird Dogs, Planks, Stirring the Pot...). Everything was feeling a lot better in about four months, and I would say that after a year I was as good as new. I still have a weird tingling sensation in my left foot, but I've learned to live with it. I avoid a lot of exercises that tend to compress the my lumbar or force it out of a neutral position (squats, deadlifts, any bent over exercise without support...).

 

[kubes]

I've always had lumbar problems, which finally hit an all time worse about three years ago. I had complete herniations in both the L4-L5 and L5-S1 discs. It was without a doubt the most painful thing I have ever experienced. I could not move my left leg, and was popping Vicodin and muscle relaxers like Tic-Tacs. Spinal fusion was suggested as a possible solution by a physician at the spine clinic I went to, but he also told me that while it would solve the problem in that area my L3-L4 disc would now take the brunt of any compression...After a ton of research, I ended up having an epidural done. I iced my back, used microcurrent stem daily, went to a very conservative chiropractor twice a week, and walked daily as much as possible. As soon as I was able I started doing the exercises Dr. Stuart McGill recommends (Bird Dogs, Planks, Stirring the Pot...). Everything was feeling a lot better in about four months, and I would say that after a year I was as good as new. I still have a weird tingling sensation in my left foot, but I've learned to live with it. I avoid a lot of exercises that tend to compress the my lumbar or force it out of a neutral position (squats, deadlifts, any bent over exercise without support...).

I have done the same thing with my training. Every lift is Tailored to avoid compressing my spine. My back still gets a little sore but that's as far as it goes.

 

[Bio]

Bro those discs look pretty bad but you do still have space left between the vertebra. My l5s1 was worse to be honest but my l4l5 is almost normal. Hopefully you get some relief soon i know back pain can put a real strain on life. How many spine dr's have you gotten opinions from?

Well,even though there is a some space left between the vertebrae, doesn't mean it hurts any less. My L5-s1 is at 50 to 60 percent. The L4-5 is the one that needs to go. With deformation of the bone due to inflammation, they said they rarely see vertebrae get that bad and that it generates a lot of pain in that area...This is where my case is different from most others...It's not just my discs. To answer your other question, I've seen three spine surgeons. All of which only deal with spines. All of which came to the same conclusion regarding my neck and low back.

Another issue for me are the facet joints in my lumbar region (neck too). They are very arthritic. By limiting the movement in that area of my back, it will also stop the arthritis flare ups in the facet joints. One of the big issues I have is the amount of arthritis in my back. Ankylosing Spondylitis runs in my family. My grandfather had the most severe form and in his 20's, his spine fused naturally...That's what the severe form does. I was seeing a Rheumatologist who tested me. I have the gene but I don't have the full disease. He said I have a variation of it. I don't have vertebrae fusing but he said my spine was covered with arthritis.

This is a tip to those that are seeing a neurosurgeon...Stop and switch over to someone who only deals soley with spines. My doctor was explaining that a lot of neurosurgeons aren't up to date with ways to be less invasive with the back which leads to longer recovery times. 16 years ago a neurosurgeon did my lumbar lamenectomy. He said, you obviously know how to work out, so I'm not going to send you to rehab. I didn't know any better. I wish he had...That surgery was a failure. I'll never know if a proper rehab would have helped.

 

[buck]

My fusion will be a two level. I was told I'll be in the hospital for three days. My doctor has talked to me about the recovery process and I can tell you that I won't be in the gym ten days later! LOL!! I'm glad to hear that it worked well for you.

I was scheduled to be in the hospital for 2-3 days but as I was not in any real pain worth speaking of they discharged me. My dr said I could excersice as long asmy back was supported.so it was machines with some weeny weights but at least it was something. Having a partail shoulder replacemet 3 months earlier was a bigger pain.

 

[chinaboy]

Sounds like your mind is made on the spine surgery. Good luck. I would absolutely have the discogram prior to surgery. Your MRI doesn't look horrible though. However, you are laying with MRIs and it's possible that disk material slides out a bit when standing. Do your physical therapy forever and you will be less likely to have future problems. You can still get facet pain after a fusion even though they say you won't. But the stronger the muscles around the area the less forces reach the spine to cause this.

And you most likely will not be in the gym in ten days. But getting active with therapy will get you there quicker.

 

[sgtedrobinson]

Thank you for taking the time to share that! I feel a lot better hearing that. Another reason I'm leary is because in 1998 I had a Lamenectomy in the L4-5, L5s1 area and it was a failure. Thanks again for sharing!

I'm assuming you did the prescribed rehab?

No, for my back and shoulders and knees the Dr let me do my own rehab.:headbang:

 

[Bio]

Sounds like your mind is made on the spine surgery. Good luck. I would absolutely have the discogram prior to surgery. Your MRI doesn't look horrible though. However, you are laying with MRIs and it's possible that disk material slides out a bit when standing. Do your physical therapy forever and you will be less likely to have future problems. You can still get facet pain after a fusion even though they say you won't. But the stronger the muscles around the area the less forces reach the spine to cause this.

And you most likely will not be in the gym in ten days. But getting active with therapy will get you there quicker.

Trust me, this decision wasn't made lightly. I've been pondering this for the last year and a half...Did physical therapy, acupuncture, and I've had my share of cortisone shots. In fact, this afternoon I had two bilateral shots in my L5 area. Plus, walking with a cane or a bad limp is a not something I want to continue doing. I've had back problems for almost 30 years so none of this is taken lightly. Another issue I have is a genetically narrow spinal canal. So, things can become irritated much easier.

I'll be looking forward to getting back in the gym but I'm going to play it safe! I'm also looking forward to physical therapy!

 

[chinaboy]

You sound ready and planned for success. You will do well.

 

[dragonfire101]

I'm curious who here has had any type of fusion surgery in their lumbar region and how are you now?

I'm definitely having L4-5 fused and likely L5-s1. I'm having a discogram to determine if the L5-s1 disc is causing me pain as well. Discogram's aren't necessarily definitive but my doctor wants to try it.

To go online and look up this type of surgery, there are a lot of dissatisfied people. Sadly, there are a lot of doctors that due unnecessary surgeries which skew the results. Plus, as my doctor pointed out, the people that have successful surgeries, for some reason, don't tend to go online and talk about...Hopefully they're busy enjoying their new found pain free life!

Eventually I'll need C5-6 and C6-7 fused as well. I know Brick had a similar surgery and it was successful. Let me know if any of you have had this surgery and what your results were. Thanks!

i had disectomey l4-l5 and c5-c6 in dec and got in car accident 2 days later so not sure if they even worked now doc saying they can fuse and another said he can put a disc replacement in each those areas since im fairly young and candidate. i dont really want get anything fused so considering dis repalcemnt

 

[dragonfire101]

Hey Thunder! Funny you should mention disc replacement. I saw my doctor yesterday and I asked about that. You have to remember, they are still gathering a lot of evidence / feedback and this procedure. Anyway, my doctor informed me that what they're seeing, is that regardless of the disc replacement, the vertebrae are showing a tendency to fuse naturally over the artificial disc. Just to be clear, my doctor is a dedicated spine surgeon. By dedicated, I mean he doesn't deal with any other areas of the body. He's very accomplished. So that was very interesting. The fusion wasn't causing any negative side effects in the patients. In fact, they weren't aware it was happening, it was picked up on scans during periodic follow up appointments.

I would ask Lex about this he would know how accurate that is, but I haven't seen alot of info confirming this.

 

[dragonfire101]

fusion scars me. when i was in pt for my disectomey i seen couple fusion patients and they said now they have pain and cant walk as good. They said they rather have the pain and walk like before. One guy had cervical disc replacement doing good around 40. My buddy got his neck minimally invasive fusion with a bone graft doing well. seems like people i ran into do better with cervical procedures not lumbar.

Once i cant take lumba pain anymore ill get the disc repalcemnet.

for my neck im prob getting tcmd

http://www.transcorpspine.com/surgeons/tcmd-procedure

and that maybe buy me some time and several years later if i need a cervical disc Replacement

 

[Bio]

I would ask Lex about this he would know how accurate that is, but I haven't seen alot of info confirming this.

Lex and I did talk. He agreed that does happen. What the percentage is, I don't know. My doctor told me about one of his patients, male, in his 20's, he was in bicycle accident and wound up getting a cervical disc replacement. A year later scans showed it fused naturally. The patient didn't even realize it and things were fine.

fusion scars me. when i was in pt for my disectomey i seen couple fusion patients and they said now they have pain and cant walk as good. They said they rather have the pain and walk like before. One guy had cervical disc replacement doing good around 40. My buddy got his neck minimally invasive fusion with a bone graft doing well. seems like people i ran into do better with cervical procedures not lumbar.

Once i cant take lumba pain anymore ill get the disc repalcemnet.

for my neck im prob getting tcmd

http://www.transcorpspine.com/surgeons/tcmd-procedure

and that maybe buy me some time and several years later if i need a cervical disc Replacement

To be honest Dragon, it scares me too, because it's permanent. Like I said before, this hasn't been an easy decision and I've researched and researched. One point I want to make clear concerning my doctor, and one of the reasons I really like him, he didn't say you need a fusion...He pointed out the areas that looked problematic and said it was up to me to decide when to do something about it! Since I had 5 cortisone shots over the last month...SI joint left side, two level facet joints in the neck, and bilateral L5 lumbar region, I've been able to not use a cane, but I still walk with a limp. So for me, it's time to take the next step.

The cervical procedures seem to to a lot better. My eventual cervical fusion will be C5-6 and C6-7. That is so low in the neck that I'm not really worried about it. There are a lot of people that have done well with surgery.

As for TCMD, there a lot of procedures out there. It's hard to say what works best. There will always be supporters and detractors for any type of procedure. Finding real world statistics can be hard.

 

[infinity1]

Bio...good luck with your surgeries. I have no info wrt the lumbar fusion but I am 12 weeks post op from having my c4-5-6 fused. Surgery went very well...wore a hard collar for 10 days...didnt do shit for the first 5-6 weeks- was cleared for light light workouts 8 weeks post op and was just cleared today for whatever activities-including lifting-that I like. I had the disks removed and donor bone graft with the cages...the fusion of the bones happened remarkably quick and I have zero pain in my shoulder bicep and fingers. The strength is returning to my bicep and shoulder as well as regaining all of the size I lost. I could go on forever about the surgery so hit me up if you have questions!

 

[Bio]

Bio...good luck with your surgeries. I have no info wrt the lumbar fusion but I am 12 weeks post op from having my c4-5-6 fused. Surgery went very well...wore a hard collar for 10 days...didnt do shit for the first 5-6 weeks- was cleared for light light workouts 8 weeks post op and was just cleared today for whatever activities-including lifting-that I like. I had the disks removed and donor bone graft with the cages...the fusion of the bones happened remarkably quick and I have zero pain in my shoulder bicep and fingers. The strength is returning to my bicep and shoulder as well as regaining all of the size I lost. I could go on forever about the surgery so hit me up if you have questions!

Thanks Infinity! I appreciate you sharing your experience. I'm glad everything went great and you're on your road back in the gym and life in general. I really wish the neck was my primary issue. Cervical fusions seem to go so well!!