Metformin and GH

[ill gotten gains]

I read somewhere on the forum that metformin impacts igf levels. does this mean that metformin is counter productive to GH use? Any input from experienced users would be greatly appreciated. Would berberine be a better choice if this is true?

 

[Thebigone]

It says the same with test levels but I believe this only occurs slightly in average sedentary people who don't weight train. Blood tests have been done on hgh with metformin and showed to effect. I think of it almost in the same way as this. Look at these foods that lower test levels

https://www.anabolicmen.com/foods-that-decrease-testosterone/

This will not happen if you are on test.

 

[little slice]

there is no way to answer your question because no tests with metformin have been conducted on people injecting GH or AAS.


IMO, I wouldn't worry about it. the benefits of metformin are too great to forgo using it.

 

[ill gotten gains]

Thank you for the responses. I had a feeling there was no actual data to answer my question.

Anyone with experience using metformin while being on GH?

 

[asteelz]

When you talk about supression of igf etc in regards to metformin in the human body it's all relative. You have to assume in an enhanced individual igf is higher , and a small degree of supression if any is neglegable.

Food for thought , by which method does metformin supress igf and is that even a pathway that applies to somebody using exogenous androgens and gh? I'm now curious and will check the dynamics and return with feedback tomorrow after trip to library

 

[b_cornelius]

When you talk about supression of igf etc in regards to metformin in the human body it's all relative. You have to assume in an enhanced individual igf is higher , and a small degree of supression if any is neglegable.

Food for thought , by which method does metformin supress igf and is that even a pathway that applies to somebody using exogenous androgens and gh? I'm now curious and will check the dynamics and return with feedback tomorrow after trip to library

mTOR, REDD1

 

[Stewie]

When you talk about supression of igf etc in regards to metformin in the human body it's all relative. You have to assume in an enhanced individual igf is higher , and a small degree of supression if any is neglegable.

Food for thought , by which method does metformin supress igf and is that even a pathway that applies to somebody using exogenous androgens and gh? I'm now curious and will check the dynamics and return with feedback tomorrow after trip to library

mTOR, REDD1

As well AMPK-->Sirt1-->PPARa--> an increase in IGFBP-2, therefore an increase of IGFBP-2 inhibits IGF-1 binding to its receptors.

 

[little slice]

so basically... whats the best way to use metformin and insulin/gh/aas for gainz?

 

[Kevinhy]

Effects of a combination of recombinant human growth hormone with metformin on glucose metabolism and body composition in patients with metabolic syn... - PubMed - NCBI

 

[TeknoViking]

Stewie, I wish i was smart enough to know what that means ha

 

[b_cornelius]

so basically... whats the best way to use metformin and insulin/gh/aas for gainz?

Not sure you'd wanna be on it 24/7. I've been coming around to the idea of taking it only at night.

If you wanna do it all day, then you may wanna consider HMB free acid for mTOR during workouts. I know HMB became known as a crap supplement, but here, it may actually be useful.

Just an idea...tryin to figure out how to effectively manipulate mTOR.

 

[b_cornelius]

Then again, I remember some cancer research.

They said that once your body gets used to the metformin, IGF just goes back to doing it's business. The conclusion was that metformin wasn't enough to prevent IGF's role in cancer.


what we're really missing here is kind of work does IGF get back to

 

[LEX]

Ive been on over a year straight 2 grams and day and look better than I ever have at the lowest doses of test I have ever taken from the day I started 18 years ago.

 

[Stewie]

Stewie, I wish i was smart enough to know what that means ha

Metformin alters gene expression to the aforementioned by b_cornelius and myself. In which, therefore causing a cascade effect to other gene(s) expression or cross-talk to associated genes, wherein two or more signaling pathways reinforce each other.

Hopefully that makes a little more sense?

 

[Stewie]

Not sure you'd wanna be on it 24/7. I've been coming around to the idea of taking it only at night.

If you wanna do it all day, then you may wanna consider HMB free acid for mTOR during workouts. I know HMB became known as a crap supplement, but here, it may actually be useful.

Just an idea...tryin to figure out how to effectively manipulate mTOR.

Interesting. Would leucine be equally effective as HMB?

 

[warlock]

Not sure you'd wanna be on it 24/7. I've been coming around to the idea of taking it only at night.

If you wanna do it all day, then you may wanna consider HMB free acid for mTOR during workouts. I know HMB became known as a crap supplement, but here, it may actually be useful.

Just an idea...tryin to figure out how to effectively manipulate mTOR.

In this case, how would you use HMB?

 

[Thebigone]

Metformin alters gene expression to the aforementioned by b_cornelius and myself. In which, therefore causing a cascade effect to other gene(s) expression or cross-talk to associated genes, wherein two or more signaling pathways reinforce each other.

Hopefully that makes a little more sense?

What does this mean?

 

[Stewie]

What does this mean?

Metformin interacts directly and indirectly on several genes that influence IGF-1.

 

[Swifto]

Interesting. Would leucine be equally effective as HMB?

Yes sir (in rodents).

But no additional effects with Leu + Resveratrol though.

**broken link removed**

"These data demonstrate that adding Leu to Met enables a dose reduction of 66% with improved efficacy and of 83% with comparable efficacy to standard metformin in diet-induced obese mice, and addition of resveratrol does not provide further benefit."

Full paper available here.

 

[Stewie]

Yes sir (in rodents).

But no additional effects with Leu + Resveratrol though.

**broken link removed**

"These data demonstrate that adding Leu to Met enables a dose reduction of 66% with improved efficacy and of 83% with comparable efficacy to standard metformin in diet-induced obese mice, and addition of resveratrol does not provide further benefit."

Full paper available here.

Thanks