Metformin net positive for muscle gains or negative?

[Wayacrucis]

Hi all. For those of you that have used metformin at conservative doses 500-1000mg per day in the off season do you think it has had more of a positive impact on your muscle gains and strength or negative?

The main issue with Metformin is that there is data that suggests Metformin inhibits Mtor. How significant is this for a guy on gear? Who knows.

The main benefit is that Metformin will help with insulin resistance which most bodybuilders will develop with the high carb intake in the off season stacked with GH.

 

[luki7788]

worrying that metformin will slow your gains while taking gh, insulin and a few grams of hormones at the same time is like driving a ferrari at 300km/h and worrying that a fly that will land on your headlight will slow you down

 

[Swifto]

worrying that metformin will slow your gains while taking gh, insulin and a few grams of hormones at the same time is like driving a ferrari at 300km/h and worrying that a fly that will land on your headlight will slow you down

Maybe its a BIG FLY on 5g per week.

 

[TheRoid]

worrying that metformin will slow your gains while taking gh, insulin and a few grams of hormones at the same time is like driving a ferrari at 300km/h and worrying that a fly that will land on your headlight will slow you down

I'll give you that was a good one.

 

[Mufasa123]

I've used 500 or 1000mg on blasts and cruises. I've noticed zero impact and honestly as far as nutrient partitioning, body composition, and overall health state I thought it a significant positive vs any kind of negative.

Only thing I watch is lowering dose when running tren in the mix as tren lowers my fasting glucose significantly as well (ie I'll go hypo A LOT more if I don't adjust this relative to dosages on both).

 

[randyh4]

From what I read, it's like a lifestyle drug it seems, like guys use it for longevity daily for a long time. Here's an interesting article on long-term benefits. I'm curious as well, I know a lot of guys use it for stable glucose levels with concurrent gh use. For some causes gastritis and cachexia, but for some really helps during a prep. There are many guys that proclaim its positive effect of lipids as well, just beware in underlying kidney or liver disease.

Metformin: Anti-Aging Drug Dosage for Longevity - Life Extension

New studies reveal how metformin inhibits aging by boosting AMPK activity. Learn how this enzyme lowers blood sugar by promoting energy utilization.

www.lifeextension.com

 

[jaxino]

Hi all. For those of you that have used metformin at conservative doses 500-1000mg per day in the off season do you think it has had more of a positive impact on your muscle gains and strength or negative?

The main issue with Metformin is that there is data that suggests Metformin inhibits Mtor. How significant is this for a guy on gear? Who knows.

The main benefit is that Metformin will help with insulin resistance which most bodybuilders will develop with the high carb intake in the off season stacked with GH.

2g Metformin or GTFO. Joking mate....

You are on a bunch of AAS HGH and insulin, Metformina won't do anything against those.

Tbh in off-season I would stick to 1500mg Berberine or max 500 Metformin.

at 1g+ it curbs my hunger too much.

 

[LATS]

All the studies done never put anabolucs in the mix.. anabomics override alot of issues.. so if metformin caused muscle loss etc in these studies it woukd diffinitely not be a factor when a gram of gear is in the mix..

 

[Cerberus777]

These studies are on sedentary people. Hard training and gear increase MTOR. Not just bodybuilders but most athletes would see a benefit from using it.

 

[TheRoid]

Anabolics override alot of issues.

A true statement. In life just as a whole

 

[LATS]

These studies are on sedentary people. Hard training and gear increase MTOR. Not just bodybuilders but most athletes would see a benefit from using it.

Yes.. that is why, for us, the studies must be taken with a grain of salt.. same with studies claiming nolvadex lowered igf.. yeah maybe in sedentary women.. but take a guy who is using gh.. anabolics and training hard what could the drop be ??? Very little to nothing most likely

 

[Elvia1023]

I use 1000mg daily so that's my view on matters. The benefits out weigh any risks imo.

 

[BLang]

Yes.. that is why, for us, the studies must be taken with a grain of salt.. same with studies claiming nolvadex lowered igf.. yeah maybe in sedentary women.. but take a guy who is using gh.. anabolics and training hard what could the drop be ??? Very little to nothing most likely

At the same time, the assumptions that you guys are making should be taken with a grain of salt, too.

You guys are asserting that the IGF-1 lowering effects seen in the study don't effect anyone on gear, but do we have enough actual empirical evidence to close the book on it?

Personally, I've seen Metformin appear to take a gear-users IGF-1 from ~280 to 67, and another one's from ~220 to 115. And I've heard numerous anecdotal reports of people claiming their strength took a shit the moment they switched from Berberine to Metformin and vice versa.

I've also seen it seem to make zero difference. And, there's a recent study showing that not only did it not lower IGF-1, it moderately increased IGF-1 in healthy adult males.

I honestly think the jury is still out on this one, and not one of those things we should just write off as solved because someone came up with a slick metaphor.

 

[LATS]

At the same time, the assumptions that you guys are making should be taken with a grain of salt, too.

You guys are asserting that the IGF-1 lowering effects seen in the study don't effect anyone on gear, but do we have enough actual empirical evidence to close the book on it?

Personally, I've seen Metformin appear to take a gear-users IGF-1 from ~280 to 67, and another one's from ~220 to 115. And I've heard numerous anecdotal reports of people claiming their strength took a shit the moment they switched from Berberine to Metformin and vice versa.

I've also seen it seem to make zero difference. And, there's a recent study showing that not only did it not lower IGF-1, it moderately increased IGF-1 in healthy adult males.

I honestly think the jury is still out on this one, and not one of those things we should just write off as solved because someone came up with a slick metaphor.

If the positive reviews far outweigh the negative there is more than a good chance that the effects for the vast majority will be limited.. but the positive effects in regards to better insulin sensitivity etc may well be worth a slight drop.
If.. if one gets a negative effect such as weakness etc then by all means stop taking it. I personally don't like rhe way metformin makes me feel.. I got off it.. I use berberine. But the majority of my friends take metformin with no ill effects.. no weakness. And no loss of gains. So its worth it to them..
You seem also to be getting a bit of a attitude.. you want to positively debate the topic great.. you want to have a attitude questions many on this thread that I'm sure are just as knowledgeable as you or more than stay off the thread.. or the board if it bothers you..

 

[BLang]

If the positive reviews far outweigh the negative there is more than a good chance that the effects for the vast majority will be limited.. but the positive effects in regards to better insulin sensitivity etc may well be worth a slight drop.
If.. if one gets a negative effect such as weakness etc then by all means stop taking it. I personally don't like rhe way metformin makes me feel.. I got off it.. I use berberine. But the majority of my friends take metformin with no ill effects.. no weakness. And no loss of gains. So its worth it to them..
You seem also to be getting a bit of a attitude.. you want to positively debate the topic great.. you want to have a attitude questions many on this thread that I'm sure are just as knowledgeable as you or more than stay off the thread.. or the board if it bothers you..

I'm not going too much time on the last part of your post, as all I did was point out that the assumptions and metaphors being portrayed as the final answer in this thread should be taken with a grain of salt the same way that a single study on elderly women should be taken with a grain of salt.

The fact that you personally don't like metformin is useful. The fact that you've known people who use it with no issues is also very useful. Just like the small handful of anecdotes I provided are useful. And the small number of studies we have on the issue is useful as well.

That's the kind of stuff that this thread should be about.

Dogmatic statements like "It's not going to make a difference to people on gear", or a slick metaphor involving a Ferrari, without any background context is basically useless.

I've been around this scene long enough to have seen dozens of examples over the years of bro myths and conventional wisdoms (that turned out to be horseshit) that the "old guard" would repeat ad nauseum, and anyone who dared challenge them was mocked and accused of having an "attitude".

Of course, that's not always the case, and there was a ton of wisdom contained in the same posts.

But yeah, you learn to take those kinds of statements with no background info with a grain of salt.

My view is that the book isn't closed on this subject, so thanks for providing your experience. I'm personally not sure what to make of it all.

 

[LATS]

I'm not going too much time on the last part of your post, as all I did was point out that the assumptions and metaphors being portrayed as the final answer in this thread should be taken with a grain of salt the same way that a single study on elderly women should be taken with a grain of salt.

The fact that you personally don't like metformin is useful. The fact that you've known people who use it with no issues is also very useful. Just like the small handful of anecdotes I provided are useful. And the small number of studies we have on the issue is useful as well.

That's the kind of stuff that this thread should be about.

Dogmatic statements like "It's not going to make a difference to people on gear", or a slick metaphor involving a Ferrari, without any background context is basically useless.

I've been around this scene long enough to have seen dozens of examples over the years of bro myths and conventional wisdoms (that turned out to be horseshit) that the "old guard" would repeat ad nauseum, and anyone who dared challenge them was mocked and accused of having an "attitude".

Of course, that's not always the case, and there was a ton of wisdom contained in the same posts.

But yeah, you learn to take those kinds of statements with no background info with a grain of salt.

My view is that the book isn't closed on this subject, so thanks for providing your experience. I'm personally not sure what to make of it all.

I apologize if I misread what your intent was in the post..

 

[hawkmoon]

I've been using metformin daily at 500-1000mg for well over ten years now. Zero regrets, and it definitely keeps me leaner

I don't know what my IGF-1 levels are and frankly don't care. As @luki7788 and @LATS pointed out, these studies, while interesting, are all but useless in application to enhanced bodybuilders.

If you want to know how you respond try it for six months or so. It's cheap and harmless.

 

[BLang]

I apologize if I misread what your intent was in the post..

No need! I'm sure the "slick metaphor" part sealed the deal, hahaha.

 

[Muay Thai]

I use 1000mg daily so that's my view on matters. The benefits out weigh any risks imo.

I am using it rn again , 500mg before bed unless i pin insulin late before night workout, in that case, should i take the metformin in the AM to clear out any glucose instead? do you recommend that?

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

just use berberine and dose away from training window?