Metformin: Risk/Reward Profile (Tradeoff Considerations; Balancing of Factors; Cost-Benefit Analysis) [Author: Type-IIx]

[Eguz22]

I feel that at some point many people on this board wanted to use met regardless of whether they needed it or not, they were just looking for some excuse to introduce it into their program.

 

[Brazzilian]

@Type-IIx what are your thoughts on Acarbose for bodybuilders?

Acarbose makes you fart every 3 minutes.

 

[nothuman]

Acarbose makes you fart every 3 minutes.

Maybe at first because it’s doing great things to your microbiome. Accept the farts for as long as you need to because it’ll be worth it.

 

[RepZZ]

Very well written. Add to it the cardio protective benefits and it’s a solid edition for bodybuilders running high gear, using insulin and HGH.

Ironically enough my cardiologist was ahead of me on this one and actually suggested it to me knowing I body build a while back which prompted me to do a deep dive. Thats when you know you have a good cardiologist. This was with clean cardiac test and numbers.

What dose have you felt is effective?

 

[bbxtreme]

What dose have you felt is effective?

10mg first thing AM is ample for bodybuilders IMO.

 

[Type-IIx]

just to clarify because not everyone knows the importance and differences off the bat:

1. High Insulin Sensitivity (Desirable):
   • Efficient glucose uptake by cells.
   • Lower risk of type 2 diabetes.
   • Better control of blood sugar levels.
   • Associated with good metabolic health.
2. Insulin Resistance (Undesirable):
   • Reduced effectiveness of insulin.
   • Higher levels of insulin are needed to manage blood sugar.
   • Increased risk of type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular disease, and other metabolic disorders.

Good. I should just note that this, & most descriptions given about insulin resistance that you'll find, are oriented towards disease rather than drug effects (what we care more about).

I have written an article that delves into insulin sensitivity/resistance apropos bodybuilding & PEDs here: https://thinksteroids.com/articles/...t-loss-glp1-gip-agonists-partitioning-agents/

With special reference to the concepts of: Partitioning (the p-ratio); Leptin and Insulin Sensitivity; and Why Hyperglycemia ≠ Insulin Resistance.

 

[Type-IIx]

@Type-IIx what are your thoughts on Acarbose for bodybuilders?

Honestly I am not familiar with it. I understand from a brief summary that it primarily controls blood glucose by slowing carbohydrate digestion. I don't like that for us, honestly. But I don't have enough knowledge about it to really opine.

 

[Type-IIx]

Honestly I am not familiar with it. I understand from a brief summary that it primarily controls blood glucose by slowing carbohydrate digestion. I don't like that for us, honestly. But I don't have enough knowledge about it to really opine.

@nothuman a scanning of the literature gives me a strong initial impression that it is particularly intolerable due to its GI distress & not particularly efficacious since it doesn't reliably reduce blood glucose when used solo, but is OK at this when used as an adjuvant drug.

Basically, this is one drug that doesn't really stoke excitement enough for me to delve too deeply – there are a lot of these – more often than not certainly I run into a drug or drug class that is underwhelming, and I don't really investigate it more deeply as a result.

 

[nothuman]

@nothuman a scanning of the literature gives me a strong initial impression that it is particularly intolerable due to its GI distress & not particularly efficacious since it doesn't reliably reduce blood glucose when used solo, but is OK at this when used as an adjuvant drug.

Basically, this is one drug that doesn't really stoke excitement enough for me to delve too deeply – there are a lot of these – more often than not certainly I run into a drug or drug class that is underwhelming, and I don't really investigate it more deeply as a result.

It is the second most powerful lifespan extension compound in mice (after Rapamycin but even more powerful in combination of the two), but I could see it not being anything particularly amazing if we are only discussing it for bodybuilding purposes. I personally have been taking it for the longevity benefits for two years. If I get anything else out of it, then cool. I find it to be very tolerable though (anecdotally). Same side effects as metformin at the beginning (more shitting, etc).

Here is a good thead with a lot of research if it interests you in any way

Acarbose - Details On Another Top Anti-Aging Drug

Acarbose; 17% Lifespan Improvement Alone, and Up to 29% When Combined with Rapamycin. Acarbose is another leading anti-aging drug that is FDA approved, and available today. There have been three major acarbose lifespan studies that all showed significant life extension results, with up to 17%...

www.rapamycin.news

I believe the longevity benefits are mostly due to the microbiome and not the insulin benefits

Extension of the Life Span by Acarbose: Is It Mediated by the Gut Microbiota?

<p>Acarbose can extend the life span of mice through a process involving the gut microbiota. Several factors affect the life span, including mitochondrial function, cellular senescence, telomere length, immune function, and expression of longevity-related genes. In this review, the effects of...

www.aginganddisease.org

 

[Type-IIx]

It is the second most powerful lifespan extension compound in mice (after Rapamycin but even more powerful in combination of the two), but I could see it not being anything particularly amazing if we are only discussing it for bodybuilding purposes. I personally have been taking it for the longevity benefits for two years. If I get anything else out of it, then cool. I find it to be very tolerable though (anecdotally). Same side effects as metformin at the beginning (more shitting, etc).

Here is a good thead with a lot of research if it interests you in any way

Acarbose - Details On Another Top Anti-Aging Drug

Acarbose; 17% Lifespan Improvement Alone, and Up to 29% When Combined with Rapamycin. Acarbose is another leading anti-aging drug that is FDA approved, and available today. There have been three major acarbose lifespan studies that all showed significant life extension results, with up to 17%...

www.rapamycin.news

I believe the longevity benefits are mostly due to the microbiome and not the insulin benefits

Extension of the Life Span by Acarbose: Is It Mediated by the Gut Microbiota?

<p>Acarbose can extend the life span of mice through a process involving the gut microbiota. Several factors affect the life span, including mitochondrial function, cellular senescence, telomere length, immune function, and expression of longevity-related genes. In this review, the effects of...

www.aginganddisease.org

Great stuff bro. Thank you for this info! I hope that it delivers for ya.

 

[bbxtreme]

@nothuman a scanning of the literature gives me a strong initial impression that it is particularly intolerable due to its GI distress & not particularly efficacious since it doesn't reliably reduce blood glucose when used solo, but is OK at this when used as an adjuvant drug.

Basically, this is one drug that doesn't really stoke excitement enough for me to delve too deeply – there are a lot of these – more often than not certainly I run into a drug or drug class that is underwhelming, and I don't really investigate it more deeply as a result.

I personally don’t like it for the same reasons so I don’t recommend it. BUT that doesn’t mean that there aren’t long term benefits that “could” come from it.

I would love to see some long term human trials on it. I don’t think it’s as black and white as Jardiance for example. But can understand why one would be drawn to it.

Same as low dose naltrexone for example. Some swear by it and others gain nothing from it.

Def have been following your progress on it and hope to see more research on it.

 

[whacked]

SGLT-2 inhibitors like Jardiance (empagliflozin) are indeed great GDAs.

Jardiance's mechanism to ameliorate hyperglycemia is more direct than Metformin's or others in its class like Berberine. The mechanism by which Jardiance works is that, where glucose from the blood is filtered for excretion and reabsorbed in the glomerulus such that (< 1% of) glucose is excreted in the urine, this reabsorption is mediated by the sodium-dependent glucose cotransporter (SGLT), mainly the type 2 which is responsible for 90% of the reabsorbed glucose. Jardiance is a small inhibitor of the SGLT2 and its activity increases glucose excretion, reducing hyperglycemia without the requirement of elevated insulin secretion.

Nice. I’ve been trying to get my head around Jardiance’s MOA after reading NotHuman’s contributions on this med which first piqued my interest.

This was extremely helpful. Thank you for this!