Muscle Potentiation

[DIEZEL666]

Michael Gundill talks alot about this. Supposedly if you "pre-activate" muscle fibers beyond a warm up you will be stronger on your work sets. I've been trying something like this lately. WHat I will do is either a heavy single or static contraction, wait a few minutes then go to the weight I would use for my 6-8 reps to failure. If I do the heavy set first I can usually handle either more weight or reps on the work set. Does anyone else have any experience with this? Thanks.

 

[Got Juice]

funny you mention this. usually i workout with my partner so i go at his pace. last night i was alone working triceps so i decided to do some good stretching and take my time. i started off with pushdowns, light set of like 70lbs, did 20 reps, and stretched the shit out of my tri's for like 3-4 mins. then i moved up to 80lbs for 20 reps. then i did 90 for like 10 reps, and did 120 for 10.

it seemed the strectching and gradual increases in weight actually made the next set feel lighter in terms of stress on my joints and muscles. usually ill do one warmup and go straight to 120lbs and i notice it hurts and aches really bad.

todd

 

[DIEZEL666]

Todd

That's not exactly what I'm talking about. What you described was just a thorough warm up. I'm talking about tricks to "super charge" your nervous system into thinking it is stronger, so it fires more fibres in less sets. Similiar to Poliquins 1-6 routine. Thanks for the input though.

 

[weight77]

I used to have a friend who would do something similar. Before benching he would go over and put like 405 on a separate bench and just take it off the rack a few times and sit there at full extension..he would then go and bench..it does trick your body and your mind..is this like what you are talking about. if so then it does work.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Hey

That Gundhill is a genius!! Isnt this called warming up? hhahhhahaahh Well, thats what I have always done and it is effective. Bottom line. If you are stronger each workout, you are making progress. This idea is great for 1 workout, but we have to look at the big picture.

 

[Gundill]

Sorry Phil but the term potentiation refers to a very specific term in the scientific litterature. It is much beyond a simple warm up.
It is much more effective to reach that state with EMS as it is much easier (and safer) to control the intensity
When we weight train, our nervous system sends the muscle 60-70 hertz (70 impulses per second-the more hertz, the stronger the muscle will get). During a heavy single, we may reach around 100 hertz. This is where potentiation starts (the sensitivity of the muscle to the nervous command is increased).
With EMS, one can send 150 hertz to the muscle which places it in an almost fully potentiated state. There is no way a normal human being can volontarily and naturally reach that state.

 

[DIEZEL666]

Michael

How about giving us a preview of your new method to "supercharge" your nervous system before a workout. Thanks.

 

[DIEZEL666]

Weight77

That is exactly what I was talking about. It is similiar to the "back off" sets power lifters do after their heavy work.

 

[DIEZEL666]

Phil

I agree with the getting stronger means making progress, but since the nervous system is such an integral part of lifting I'm looking for a way to make it stronger also. The more fibres you can recruit on a set, the more fibres that will grow. It's like frogs being able to jump so far relative to their bodyweight. They don't have superhuman leg muscles, but they can fire all the fibres at once to make a jump. I think a better mind/muscle connection would lead to better gains, both short and long term. Thanks.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

With all DUE respect

Sorry Phil but the term potentiation refers to a very specific term in the scientific litterature. It is much beyond a simple warm up.
It is much more effective to reach that state with EMS as it is much easier (and safer) to control the intensity
When we weight train, our nervous system sends the muscle 60-70 hertz (70 impulses per second-the more hertz, the stronger the muscle will get). During a heavy single, we may reach around 100 hertz. This is where potentiation starts (the sensitivity of the muscle to the nervous command is increased).
With EMS, one can send 150 hertz to the muscle which places it in an almost fully potentiated state. There is no way a normal human being can volontarily and naturally reach that state.

I am aware of the term potentiation in scientific LITERATURE, however only in relation to a cellular mechanism of memory. I am having difficulty understanding your post, but my instinct tells me that my confusion is related more to your lack of knowledge on the subject, rather than my inability to comprehend. Please quote your source, as it will help me, and interested others, understand your opinion (as well as make my research on the topic easier, as I have not been able to find any information regarding this SPECIFIC definition of potentiation).

 

[PHIL HERNON]

It would feel lighter

I used to have a friend who would do something similar. Before benching he would go over and put like 405 on a separate bench and just take it off the rack a few times and sit there at full extension..he would then go and bench..it does trick your body and your mind..is this like what you are talking about. if so then it does work.

I don't think it is a matter of "tricking" one's body. The body knows perfectly well that 300 lbs, for example, is less than 405 lbs. I agree that 300 will feel exceptionally lighter after lifting 405, for any number of reps, than lifting 300 at the beginning of the workout.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Fiance

I must tell you all. When I got home, my fiance had this thread opened. She was being protective of me, as a good fiance should, and took it upon herself to defend me and inject her own opinions. Now, her area of study is molecular biosciences and wanted to get to the bottom of this "muscle potentiation" issue. I tend to agree until I see studies proving otherwise.

 

[Ivan]

Classic

I must tell you all. When I got home, my fiance had this thread opened. She was being protective of me, as a good fiance should, and took it upon herself to defend me and inject her own opinions. Now, her area of study is molecular biosciences and wanted to get to the bottom of this "muscle potentiation" issue. I tend to agree until I see studies proving otherwise.

LOL, the Ol' Lady stepped in eh? THis cracks me up, because my gf knows MUCH more about AAS than the average Joe. When she hears idiotic (not even thinking along this thread's terms) statements about AAS use etc she goes off and explains etc...ALL from this site, or listening to me....

ANYWAY ---- I am quite interested to know more about this potentiaion also.....

 

[MAINEVENT]

Re: With all DUE respect

I am aware of the term potentiation in scientific LITERATURE, however only in relation to a cellular mechanism of memory. I am having difficulty understanding your post, but my instinct tells me that my confusion is related more to your lack of knowledge on the subject, rather than my inability to comprehend. Please quote your source, as it will help me, and interested others, understand your opinion (as well as make my research on the topic easier, as I have not been able to find any information regarding this SPECIFIC definition of potentiation).

No offense Phil, but I thought you got all SCIENTIFIC on us with that post. Good thing it was only your fiance....LOL.

 

[Gundill]

Re: With all DUE respect

I am aware of the term potentiation in scientific LITERATURE, however only in relation to a cellular mechanism of memory.

Skeletal muscle potentiation is completely unrelated to this. A simple Medline search will provide all the answers you are looking for. Training the muscles in a potentiated state is most important for the advanced bodybuilders.
Here is a good review:

Exerc Sport Sci Rev. 2002 Jul;30(3):138-43.

Postactivation potentiation: role in human performance.

Sale DG.

Postactivation potentiation (PAP) is the transient increase in muscle contractile performance after previous contractile activity. This review describes the features and mechanism of PAP, assesses its potential role in endurance and strength/speed performance, considers strategies for exploiting PAP, and outlines how PAP might be affected by training.

I also suggest reading Dietmar Schmidtbleicher's studies on the subject (translated in English in New Studies Athletics 1996 11(4): 67)

 

[Grape Ape]

Interesting thread

I'd like to learn more about it myself....I've always stretched the particular muscle group I'm working (almost to the point of pain) between each set, and I always lift better than when I dont....so based on what I've read here....what if I say, after I'm thouroughly warmed up, I bench say 300 pounds, then move back to like 250 for the working sets....is this along the lines of what you are talking about? May give that a try a couple of times....or is my dumb ass missing the point altogether?

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Try it

On paper it looks good, but in the gym there are so many factors that contribute to our "success" that it ranks probably somewhere in the top 1000 things that need to be manipulated.

 

[weight77]

I think that Phil is the smartest guy on here as far as training goes. He has experience no book or study can provide and that is priceless. So I would listen to him on the things he says instead of trying this stuff..

 

[raybravo]

hey cmon , u'd follow someone without even listening to what gundill has to say ? although someone is phil henron who is simply awesome with his practicality , i think we should keep an open mind here and try to pick up something and if its something we can apply , then we've come out of this a lil smarter and better at achieving our physical goal ... so a lil open mindedness ! please !

 

[weight77]

hey cmon , u'd follow someone without even listening to what gundill has to say ? although someone is phil henron who is simply awesome with his practicality , i think we should keep an open mind here and try to pick up something and if its something we can apply , then we've come out of this a lil smarter and better at achieving our physical goal ... so a lil open mindedness ! please !

I have had a open mind about lots of things (as we all do) but it seems I keep coming back to heavy training. I know alot of people like to jump on whatever phil says just becuse he is phil Hernon. I said what I did becuase of what he knows. He has given us all some of the most the best advice just by saying get stronger and keep it simple and you will grow.Very simple and this is no theory this is fact, something like that will work for everyone.