need experiences

[FuckOprah]

hi, so ive been reading alot lately and i have a few question, just wanna hear from your guys' experiences.

what do you guys think is the minimum doses to see size gains from, igf, mgf, insulin, hgh

what is the minimum length (in your opinion and experience) to see size gains as well as fatloss from hgh, insulin(insulin just for size gains)

what do u guys think is the dose/length where distended guts become noticeable from igf, mgf, hgh, insulin (if you were to use them on their own, however if uve used some of these together feel free to post about your results from it)

and ill think of some more later, just curious cuz ive seen a ton of different stuff as far as results go.

 

[FuckOprah]

some more q's

has anyone used cjc + ghrp for fat loss and/or pre-contest, if so how did that go? And how would u rate it against hgh for fat loss?

what are minimum lengths of cycles for cjc + ghrp in terms of size gain and fat loss. sorry if any of these were covered in dat's guide i read almost all of it but id still like others opinions.

 

[papapumpsd]

You need to take your time and read some threads in this section. And there's good convo in Dat's sticky so if you just glossed over it, it's worth reading and understanding.

Good luck.

 

[FuckOprah]

You need to take your time and read some threads in this section. And there's good convo in Dat's sticky so if you just glossed over it, it's worth reading and understanding.

Good luck.

i have, but i figure more people would share their experiences if i directly asked for it rather than a small number of people putting inputs.

 

[123cctv]

i have, but i figure more people would share their experiences if i directly asked for it rather than a small number of people putting inputs.

Typing may be a 'pass time' for some, but for others,....

 

[jm425]

i have, but i figure more people would share their experiences if i directly asked for it rather than a small number of people putting inputs.

There are plenty of posts where guys talk about their experiences on peps. As papapump has said, do a search.

 

[Nssca]

i have, but i figure more people would share their experiences if i directly asked for it rather than a small number of people putting inputs.

Read Dats thread and its all the info you need.
If you had read it all.. you wouldn't have asked these questions.

 

[DatBtrue]

what do you guys think is the minimum doses to see size gains from, igf, mgf, insulin, hgh

IGF-1 LR3 probably needs to be reconstituted with the proper amount of Acetic Acid or HCL with a base such as acetate salt in the lypholized powder. Most people just reconstitute w/ aa and have no idea if (and how much) base was put in by the manufacturer. Probably also needs Human Serum Albumin in the vial as well to reduce adsorption and make sure you don't lose half your peptide.

So a dosing protocol where people use up the vial quickly seem to work better because their IGF-1 LR3 probably fades quickly because all of the above was not as it should be.

Then you have the problem of IGF-1 LR3 being systemic and not local. So you are better off if you have regular IGF-1 pre-bound to IGFBinding Protein-3 which will remain local when injected.

So those things need to be taken into consideration...

MGF will not behave as MGF. There is no mGF receptor. It will bind to the IGF-1 receptor and Peg-MGF likely acts as a better IGF-1. People report large doses working well.

Insulin should not be used without GH.

GH dosing depends on age and goals. GH is not anabolic terribly by itself. As part of a protocol it can bring hypertrophy but generally not strength. GH converts some muscle fiber to higher threshold endurance fibers (which nature actually prefers) which contrary to belief can increase substantially in size. Do some extended rep sets if you use GH.

what is the minimum length (in your opinion and experience) to see size gains as well as fatloss from hgh, insulin(insulin just for size gains)

GH should be used at times where insulin isn't active for maximum fatloss. If used when insulin is present it will help keep fat down some but you will not lose fat.

GH & insulin should be used together during an anabolic/androgen cycle.

what do u guys think is the dose/length where distended guts become noticeable from igf, mgf, hgh, insulin (if you were to use them on their own, however if uve used some of these together feel free to post about your results from it)

I think very high GH dosing which results in IGF-1 levels chronically high could result in gut growth.

and ill think of some more later, just curious cuz ive seen a ton of different stuff as far as results go.

Okay we'll be here.

 

[DatBtrue]

some more q's

has anyone used cjc + ghrp for fat loss and/or pre-contest, if so how did that go? And how would u rate it against hgh for fat loss?[/QUOTE]

I think Lucian used cjc + ghrp and also GH in prep and reported it here last year. He said it worked well. It allowed him to use a lot less GH then he had previously.

He said he agreed with me that his dosing should have been higher to be a true bodybuilding dose,

what are minimum lengths of cycles for cjc + ghrp in terms of size gain and fat loss.

CJC + GHRP works fairly quickly. Unlike GH there is no need to wait for a while for some results.

sorry if any of these were covered in dat's guide i read almost all of it but id still like others opinions.

Oh shit! It turns out I'm Dat! You wanted others opinions.

I really wish you would have posted this first in your initial post. Oh I feel so embarrassed now... oh so very embarrassed.

 

[disgraziato]

LMFAO.....Here, ummm, I agree with what Dat said....:cheek:-sm

 

[MiteyMite]

priceless

 

[FuckOprah]

Read Dats thread and its all the info you need.
If you had read it all.. you wouldn't have asked these questions.

it did not go into much detail about some of these questions trust me. Although it was extremely helpful the main topic of it was cjc and ghrp thats why i dont have to many questions on it.



dat: its fine lol, i always like to read your posts theyre very helpful and you're a great member of this board. And quick question to you, if u had to can you put a number on a cjc/ghrp cycle? i know it can be shorter or longer but its kinda like how everyone suggest 12weeks for a test e cycle what would it be in the case of cjc and ghrp? ive seen some people reporting 8weeks but i read on some other boards people were saying running under 14weeks is useless.

 

[totalrecomp]

GHRP-6 has always had a mild leaning out effect on me when not in a calorie deficit. This was the first year that GHRP6/CJC has been used while actually dieting. So for I would say that the most pronounced effect has been the retention of muscle mass. I always loose far too much in order to get lean. Just the way my metabolism works. So for fat loss I would say mild, but for muscle retention while in a calorie deficit I give it high marks.

 

[DatBtrue]

GHRP-6 has always had a mild leaning out effect on me when not in a calorie deficit. This was the first year that GHRP6/CJC has been used while actually dieting. So for I would say that the most pronounced effect has been the retention of muscle mass. I always loose far too much in order to get lean. Just the way my metabolism works. So for fat loss I would say mild, but for muscle retention while in a calorie deficit I give it high marks.

Yes! I put someone on an alternate day fast for several months w/ plenty of cardio on fast day and an energy deficit on eat days. They have lost about 40 pounds while strength has gone up.

I attribute that to GHRH/GHRP.

This was an extreme approach and I can not tell if he lost muscle size because he looks so much better and more muscular despite losing an inch (probably of fat) on his arms.

Muscle sparing comes not just from the increase in GH but the GHRPs bind specifically to receptors in tissue and prevent atrophy in negative energy balance situations.

 

[papapumpsd]

Yes! I put someone on an alternate day fast for several months w/ plenty of cardio on fast day and an energy deficit on eat days. They have lost about 40 pounds while strength has gone up.

I attribute that to GHRH/GHRP.

This was an extreme approach and I can not tell if he lost muscle size because he looks so much better and more muscular despite losing an inch (probably of fat) on his arms.

Muscle sparing comes not just from the increase in GH but the GHRPs bind specifically to receptors in tissue and prevent atrophy in negative energy balance situations.

I would go hypo if I fasted and did cardio. How did this individual not have issues w/low blood sugar (or did he/she)?

 

[DatBtrue]

dat: its fine lol, i always like to read your posts theyre very helpful and you're a great member of this board. And quick question to you, if u had to can you put a number on a cjc/ghrp cycle?

Answer.

Age 25 to 30 you have half the GH levels you had when you were 18. Age 30 to 40 your levels decrease AND the release pulse is less strong. Age 40+ your release pulsation starts to look pretty bad. Age 60+ GH levels have been low for a long time.

The answer is if you are age 25 or older a small to moderate increase is needed to restore GH levels to that of youth.

So you dose GHRH/GHRP every night for the rest of your life.

Hunger problems? Just use a tiny bit of GHRP-6 w/ more GHRH. As low as 20mcg of GHRP-6 w/ 200mcg or 300mcg of GHRH.

Don't want to spend that much money on GHRH, then keep the GHRH dose at 100mcg.

If you are young man and tell me low doses don't do anything. Fuck you! I have 60 year olds who tell me they use just a low dose such as 20mcg of GHRP & GHRH per night and it takes away debilitating pain and does make a difference.

You'll still benefit for LIFE.

But I have answered your question plenty on bodybuilding!!!

Prime w/ GH or GHRH/GHRP or both and when you hit your anabolic cycle increase GH levels substantially during your entire cycle. Carry the higher GH levels into PCT and then as PCT progresses reduce GH levels to prime levels.

There is no magic to it.

Don't want to use both GH & GHRH/GHRP on a cycle then use as much as you can of either.

All of this assumes you are attempting to gain as much mass as you can during a period when your body is primed & ready to grow. You use other compounds in that cycle as well (basic stuff).

This is not the only approach. In fact I prefer a steady everyday approach that still toggles back and forth but does so like an inch-worm not a 20 foot snake.

I'm not a trainer and I recommend Phil Hernon. I also recommend Razor Ripped.

I will never be at their level because they have to babysit details, details details and they get paid jack-shit for doing so.

BUT if you wanted me to tell you EXACTLY what to do to gain as much mass as possible and I was so inclined I would say first you are going to be my bitch for six months.

I'll hook your ass up to IV GH, various insulin protocols, ways to increase both GH receptors & androgen receptors & activity. When you tell me your prostate hurts I'd tell you to shut up.

I'd do blood work, I'd take notes.

I'd fast your ass and put you in mini-rebound states.

Then I'd get medieval on your ass. I'd test out everything I'd want such as the use of methods to get better penetration of a transdermal formula which includes such growth factors as EGF just so I can rejuvenate skin tissue. Think electricity....

I'd do things that may or may not cause cancer just to see what would happen.

Then after six months when you say half my face looks like a 14 year old & the other like a very wrinkled old man...where is the muscle you promised me... I'd inject a viral vector into you that increases the expression of MGF in muscle cells and I would double your muscle mass in 3 months. Double it again in 3 more months.

...or maybe... I'd just say hire Phil, grow steady, stay healthy and enjoy life...

...naw I think I'd build the perfect beast. ...unless the cancer got you first.

 

[DatBtrue]

I would go hypo if I fasted and did cardio. How did this individual not have issues w/low blood sugar (or did he/she)?

No low blood sugar. The body adjusts. It is amazing to see the body adjust in many ways.

Plus he had an incentive to go through all of that. He is getting married soon and wants to look good.

 

[GoneForever]

Answer.

Age 25 to 30 you have half the GH levels you had when you were 18. Age 30 to 40 your levels decrease AND the release pulse is less strong. Age 40+ your release pulsation starts to look pretty bad. Age 60+ GH levels have been low for a long time.

The answer is if you are age 25 or older a small to moderate increase is needed to restore GH levels to that of youth.

So you dose GHRH/GHRP every night for the rest of your life.

Hunger problems? Just use a tiny bit of GHRP-6 w/ more GHRH. As low as 20mcg of GHRP-6 w/ 200mcg or 300mcg of GHRH.

Don't want to spend that much money on GHRH, then keep the GHRH dose at 100mcg.

If you are young man and tell me low doses don't do anything. Fuck you! I have 60 year olds who tell me they use just a low dose such as 20mcg of GHRP & GHRH per night and it takes away debilitating pain and does make a difference.

You'll still benefit for LIFE.

But I have answered your question plenty on bodybuilding!!!

Prime w/ GH or GHRH/GHRP or both and when you hit your anabolic cycle increase GH levels substantially during your entire cycle. Carry the higher GH levels into PCT and then as PCT progresses reduce GH levels to prime levels.

There is no magic to it.

Don't want to use both GH & GHRH/GHRP on a cycle then use as much as you can of either.

All of this assumes you are attempting to gain as much mass as you can during a period when your body is primed & ready to grow. You use other compounds in that cycle as well (basic stuff).

This is not the only approach. In fact I prefer a steady everyday approach that still toggles back and forth but does so like an inch-worm not a 20 foot snake.

I'm not a trainer and I recommend Phil Hernon. I also recommend Razor Ripped.

I will never be at their level because they have to babysit details, details details and they get paid jack-shit for doing so.

BUT if you wanted me to tell you EXACTLY what to do to gain as much mass as possible and I was so inclined I would say first you are going to be my bitch for six months.

I'll hook your ass up to IV GH, various insulin protocols, ways to increase both GH receptors & androgen receptors & activity. When you tell me your prostate hurts I'd tell you to shut up.

I'd do blood work, I'd take notes.

I'd fast your ass and put you in mini-rebound states.

Then I'd get medieval on your ass. I'd test out everything I'd want such as the use of methods to get better penetration of a transdermal formula which includes such growth factors as EGF just so I can rejuvenate skin tissue. Think electricity....

I'd do things that may or may not cause cancer just to see what would happen.

Then after six months when you say half my face looks like a 14 year old & the other like a very wrinkled old man...where is the muscle you promised me... I'd inject a viral vector into you that increases the expression of MGF in muscle cells and I would double your muscle mass in 3 months. Double it again in 3 more months.

...or maybe... I'd just say hire Phil, grow steady, stay healthy and enjoy life...

...naw I think I'd build the perfect beast. ...unless the cancer got you first.

LOL that was fucking awesome!!!

 

[VTliftVT]

BUT if you wanted me to tell you EXACTLY what to do to gain as much mass as possible and I was so inclined I would say first you are going to be my bitch for six months.

I'll hook your ass up to IV GH, various insulin protocols, ways to increase both GH receptors & androgen receptors & activity. When you tell me your prostate hurts I'd tell you to shut up.

I'd do blood work, I'd take notes.

I'd fast your ass and put you in mini-rebound states.

Then I'd get medieval on your ass. I'd test out everything I'd want such as the use of methods to get better penetration of a transdermal formula which includes such growth factors as EGF just so I can rejuvenate skin tissue. Think electricity....

I'd do things that may or may not cause cancer just to see what would happen.

Then after six months when you say half my face looks like a 14 year old & the other like a very wrinkled old man...where is the muscle you promised me... I'd inject a viral vector into you that increases the expression of MGF in muscle cells and I would double your muscle mass in 3 months. Double it again in 3 more months.

...naw I think I'd build the perfect beast. ...unless the cancer got you first.

*raises hand*

Ummm....ME FIRST!!!!!!!!

well aside from the multi-split-face thing

 

[whiteknucks]

Answer.

Age 25 to 30 you have half the GH levels you had when you were 18. Age 30 to 40 your levels decrease AND the release pulse is less strong. Age 40+ your release pulsation starts to look pretty bad. Age 60+ GH levels have been low for a long time.

The answer is if you are age 25 or older a small to moderate increase is needed to restore GH levels to that of youth.

So you dose GHRH/GHRP every night for the rest of your life.

Hunger problems? Just use a tiny bit of GHRP-6 w/ more GHRH. As low as 20mcg of GHRP-6 w/ 200mcg or 300mcg of GHRH.

Don't want to spend that much money on GHRH, then keep the GHRH dose at 100mcg.

If you are young man and tell me low doses don't do anything. Fuck you! I have 60 year olds who tell me they use just a low dose such as 20mcg of GHRP & GHRH per night and it takes away debilitating pain and does make a difference.

You'll still benefit for LIFE.

But I have answered your question plenty on bodybuilding!!!

Prime w/ GH or GHRH/GHRP or both and when you hit your anabolic cycle increase GH levels substantially during your entire cycle. Carry the higher GH levels into PCT and then as PCT progresses reduce GH levels to prime levels.

There is no magic to it.

Don't want to use both GH & GHRH/GHRP on a cycle then use as much as you can of either.

All of this assumes you are attempting to gain as much mass as you can during a period when your body is primed & ready to grow. You use other compounds in that cycle as well (basic stuff).

This is not the only approach. In fact I prefer a steady everyday approach that still toggles back and forth but does so like an inch-worm not a 20 foot snake.

I'm not a trainer and I recommend Phil Hernon. I also recommend Razor Ripped.

I will never be at their level because they have to babysit details, details details and they get paid jack-shit for doing so.

BUT if you wanted me to tell you EXACTLY what to do to gain as much mass as possible and I was so inclined I would say first you are going to be my bitch for six months.

I'll hook your ass up to IV GH, various insulin protocols, ways to increase both GH receptors & androgen receptors & activity. When you tell me your prostate hurts I'd tell you to shut up.

I'd do blood work, I'd take notes.

I'd fast your ass and put you in mini-rebound states.

Then I'd get medieval on your ass. I'd test out everything I'd want such as the use of methods to get better penetration of a transdermal formula which includes such growth factors as EGF just so I can rejuvenate skin tissue. Think electricity....

I'd do things that may or may not cause cancer just to see what would happen.

Then after six months when you say half my face looks like a 14 year old & the other like a very wrinkled old man...where is the muscle you promised me... I'd inject a viral vector into you that increases the expression of MGF in muscle cells and I would double your muscle mass in 3 months. Double it again in 3 more months.

...or maybe... I'd just say hire Phil, grow steady, stay healthy and enjoy life...

...naw I think I'd build the perfect beast. ...unless the cancer got you first.

::ction-sm

that deserves a standing ovation!

Dat do you say not to use slin without gh because of fat gains or something else?