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No Clomid/Nolva/HCG Post Cycle Therapy

jrs

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I know at least a couple guys who use time off as their PCT, along with some natural test booster supplements and foods high in fats.

A couple reasons for this.. clomid = severe mental issues. I personally know somebody that almost killed himself 3 times, each during PCT. He also didn't notice much affect from nolva and his cholesterol levels didn't even change much (though slightly for the better) because of it.

Also it has been suggested that clomid/nolva/ and especially hcg can actually be rather suppressive and delay hpta recovery.

Now, he just discontinues use and in a week or two his sex drive is higher, motivation goes back up, body feels not so beat down, etc.

Would anybody else admit to going against the norm?
 

nosejob

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mental issues while taking clomid?

lets look deeper into your 'friends' metal state on and off gear.
 

joeshow5

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you should suggest to your friend that he shouldn't be experimenting with illegal drugs unless prescribed by a doctor. Clomid doesn't make people attempt suicide.
 

Brute Force

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Resveratrol seems to be promising as a natural PCT alternative. It has been shown to stimulate LH and FSH, but not to the same degree as clomid/nolva.

Most likely, your friend's mental issues may be associated with coming off gear rather than the clomid.

However, clomid and nolva do still possess some detrimental properties which should be taken into consideration. I think the new generation SERMs might be a better alternative.
 

Liphted

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Clomid combined with vastly imbalanced hormones (PC) most definitely is a perfect combination for what you are talking about jrs. If it effects your friend that much he should definitely stay away from clomid and substitute with something along the lines of tamoxifen for PCT. Everything effects everyone differently. I've witnessed similar behavior in some training partners when using clomid PCT (yes, more than one), which I should add typically have their shit together.

On a side note, if your friend is highly unstable "normally" then probably the safest bet for him is to stay as far away from gear as possible.
 

dragonfire101

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hcg can actually be rather suppressive

If you use to much of it. If you use it properly it is ver benneficial. As for clomid, if your friend is having that severe of a time using any substance he may have a predispostion to somemental health issues not associated with the what PCT drugs he was using.
 

Dog-Slime

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Most people who experience bad sides from clomid are using too high of a dose. Just 50mgs of clomid a day will go a long way for restoring test levels while providing almost no side effects.
 

tap

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I dont like clomid either.It makes me break out and adds to my post cycle depression(coming off is a bitch). Anyway ,Ive been off 2 months now and been using hcg 500iu once a week and 20 mg of nolva ed along with hgh 3iu ed(i stay on ) and I have not lost any weight. Im just not as hard and I dont have the 24hour pump look.So far I feel like ive kept most of my strength and size.Im going to stay off for 4 more months so hopefully I wont loose much,well see.
Tap
 

dragonfire101

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**broken link removed**

You can check out Michael Scally, MD thoughts at the link above. His alleged protocol is something like below

HCG 2500iu's EOD x 8 shots
Clomid 50mg twice a day for 30 days.
Nolvadex 20mg for 45 days.


I kind of like the way it looks accept for the HCG dosages have been reported to be high by other HRT Docs such as John Crisler. AKA SWALE. Also the Clomid ran long time also. I have been reading a lot on HMG and it looks likeit would be very beneficial in PCT especially if one was not going back on for aong time.

Study below also show a low HCG dose benneficial

LOW DOSE HUMAN CHORIONIC GONADOTROPIN MAINTAINS INTRATESTICULAR TESTOSTERONE IN NORMAL MEN WITH TESTOSTERONE INDUCED GONADOTROPIN SUPPRESSION
Andrea D. Coviello*, Alvin M. Matsumoto, William J. Bremner, Karen L. Herbst, John K. Amory, Bradley D. Anawalt, Paul R. Sutton, William W. Wright, Terry R. Brown, Xiaohua Yan, Barry R. Zirkin, and Jonathan P. Jarow
Center for Research in Reproduction and Contraception, Geriatric Research Education and Clinical Center, Veteran Affairs Puget Sound Health Care System (AMM), and Department of Medicine, University of Washington School of Medicine (ADC, WJB, JKA, BDA, PLS), Seattle, WA; Department of Medicine, Charles R. Drew University (KLH), Los Angeles, CA; Department of Urology, Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine (XY, JPJ), Baltimore, MD; Division of Reproductive Biology, Department of Biochemistry and Molecular Biology Johns Hopkins University School of Public Health (WWW, TRB, XY, BRZ, JPJ), Baltimore, MD
* To whom correspondence should be addressed. E-mail: [email protected].
In previous studies of testicular biopsy tissue from healthy men, intratesticular testosterone (ITT) has been shown to be much higher than serum testosterone (T), suggesting that high ITT is needed relative to serum T for normal spermatogenesis in men. However, the quantitative relationship between ITT and spermatogenesis is not known. To begin to address this issue experimentally we sought to determine the dose response relationship between human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and ITT to determine the minimum dose needed to maintain ITT in the normal range. Twenty-nine men with normal reproductive physiology were randomized to receive 200 mg T enanthate (TE) weekly in combination with either saline placebo or hCG 125 IU, 250 IU, or 500 IU every other day for 3 weeks. ITT was assessed in testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration at baseline and the end of treatment. Baseline serum T (14.1 nmol/L) was 1.2% of ITT (1174 nmol/L). LH and FSH were profoundly suppressed to 5% and 3% of baseline respectively, and ITT was suppressed by 94% (1234 nmol/L to 72 nmol/L) in the TE/placebo group. ITT increased linearly with increasing hCG dose (P < 0.001). Post-treatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group. These results demonstrate that relatively low dose hCG maintains ITT within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression. Extensions of this study will allow determination of the ITT concentration threshold required to maintain spermatogenesis in man.


Anyways from doing alot of reading it appears hypothetically it may be benneficial to do HCG 500iu 2xEW through an entire cycle and then run it maybe for a 2-3 weeks past that with a little HMG and add in other things. One could come up with a hypothetical PCT


weeks 1-10 Cycle, HCG 500iu 2 x EW
11-13 HCG 500iu 2-3 x EW
11-13 HMG 75iu 1-2 x EW
11 Clomid 100mg ED
12 Clomid 50mg ED
10-14 nolva 20mg ed


or better yet us toremifene instead of clomid,toremifene which is suppose to work betetr than nolva and allegedly do alot more in regards for PCT and lipid profiles.

weeks 1-10(70) day Cycle, HCG 500iu 2 x EW

day 71 toremifene 90mg HCG 500IU
day 72 toremifene 90mg
day 73 toremifene 90mg HCG 500IU
day 74 toremifene 90mg
day 75 toremifene 90mg HMG 75IU
day 76 toremifene 90mg
day 77 toremifene 90mg HCG 500IU
day 78 toremifene 60mg
day 79 toremifene 60mg HCG 500IU
day 80 toremifene 60mg
day 81 toremifene 60mg HMG 75IU
day 82 toremifene 60mg
day 83 toremifene 60mg HCG 500IU
day 84 toremifene 60mg
day 85 toremifene 30mg HCG 500IU
day 86 toremifene 30mg
day 87 toremifene 30mg HMG 75IU
day 88 toremifene 30mg
day 89 toremifene 30mg
day 90 toremifene 30mg
day 91 toremifene 30mg
day 92 toremifene 30mg
day 93 toremifene 30mg
day 94 toremifene 30mg
day 95 toremifene 30mg
day 96 toremifene 30mg
day 97 toremifene 30mg
day 98 toremifene 30mg
day 99 toremifene 30mg
day100 toremifene 30mg
 
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