Not Gaining no matter what I try!

[big4nuthin]

Although i have been in and out of the gym for over 20 years, I will forever be a beginner as I still have sooo much to learn. That being said here is my situation. I have been training hard and very consistent on all fronts for the last 4.5 years. In that time I have gained a considerable amount of muscle (about 35lbs) and presently my bodyfat must be around 4-6% with very little water as I am constantly being told I look about 4 weeks out. I dont put much into statements like that, just trying to create a mental image for you all. I am 37, 5' 8", 204 with a relatively small bone structure (i think thats why I have been told many time I look about 220lbs, not complaining, just think it may have its disadvantages as well) The problem is for the last 10 months I cant seem to put on any size above the 203 mark. I am stuck in this 200-208 range. I have been cycling numerous compounds with test always as a base between 150 mgs a week (HRT/time down) to as high 1500mgs right now. I have been consistently using jintropin GH between 2 iu's to 9 iu's. Orals are usually 3-4 weeks on/off when I do them (6 cycle of orals in the last 4.5 years). Anti-e's are 1.25 mgs of femera ed. I eat so much that i cant stand the sight of food, especially carbs. In the last few months I never have any cravings for anything, I am like a machine, I just eat every 2.5 hours and its usually just protien with EFA, a little bit of carbs here and there thru out the day. I train 2 on 1 off, and lately i have been trying more of a dante/hernon style approach (only 2 weeks in to this style). I just seem to have gotten leaner at the 200 lb area and much more vascular (has to be from the GH) in the last 10 months, but no extra size. I am almost done with the first 3 weeks of this cycle which include dbol at 80-100 mgs a day and I have actually lost weight! I cant even get water bloated off of dbol! Test is at 1500 mgs, eq at 600 mgs. Protien about 350-400 grams (300 of it coming from solids). I dont feel overtrained, when I do i take a day off here and there. Have not missed more than a week in the last 4 .5 years. Some say I just eat way to clean (dont eat very much red meat, mostly chicken breast and fish). Dont have cheat days, because I have not felt a craving for anything in quite some time. I get about 8 hrs of sleep every night and have a very easy job. I am somewhat a nervous type personality alway feeling a bit hyper tense, but my BP is always avg and i do regular blood work, with the only problem being elevated liver enzyme, but we all know that story. So thats the deal my freinds. If anyone has any ideas or suggestion please do tell. I am to that point where i am frustrated, only because this shit is so costly on all fronts, that when i put so much out and get jack back i feel almost like i am losing here. If its a matter of genetics, fine i accept my limitations, but thats what I am trying to identify.

 

[Big A]

It sounds like perfect timing for insulin.

 

[big4nuthin]

Insulin

Big A,

Thank you for your suggestion. Maybe your right, I have some humalog on hand, I did try it in the past @10 iu's PWO, but did not really notice anything. Someone else told me I should be using 4 weeks on/off/on up to 20-30 iu's a day. How do you use it? Is it possible that my androgen recptors are just burnt out from cycling so long (pretty consistent except for a 30 day break every 6 months)? Thanks again bro!

 

[xcelbeyond]

just some food for thought

Have you been "mixing up" your workouts or just doing basically the "same" type of workouts. I'm a believer that your body will acclimate to ANY type of workout (eventually) and mixing it up "shocks" it.

 

[xcelbeyond]

same thing on diet

You might try cycling your carbs or throwing in a cheat day occaisionally.

 

[maxsupplements]

sounds like perfect timing for some cheeseburgers!!

i would throw some good ole cheeseburgers in the mix, add some dirty calories every few days and even if you dont have cravings, you need to have a cheat day to "trick" your body. if you dont have one, your body can get into a rut or a pattern when you eat the same and train the same, and take the same drugs. you know, maybe you might even think of some IGF-LR3. if you do, make sure and go the IGtropin route. it will pay off in the long run, but i would generally say that i also am genetically predisposed with a small bone structure and the ability to stay lean year round. and the only thing that will get my BF up to around 11-13% is cheeseburgers from a greasy spoon type of a place. i know i will get flamed for this, but thats what makes me gain!!!

 

[DOGMA]

The human body is THE MOST ADAPTIVE organism on this earth. If nothing is working then you should change everything. You just may be the poster boy for adaptive physiology. I feel diet, supplements and training should all be cycled, changed as time goes on because you must change in order to restimulate and trigger change's in the body.

 

[big4nuthin]

Yes Xcel

Have you been "mixing up" your workouts or just doing basically the "same" type of workouts. I'm a believer that your body will acclimate to ANY type of workout (eventually) and mixing it up "shocks" it.

I try and mix things up every 3-4 months or so. Currently I am trying a Dante/hernon low voulme, hi intensity, train to failure style routine. In the past I was training 1 on 1 off and it was good, but not enough frequency.

 

[big4nuthin]

Cycling carbs and cheat days

You might try cycling your carbs or throwing in a cheat day occaisionally.

I remember when i first started doing that about 1.5 yrs ago. I would look so forward to my high carb days and oohhh those cheat days were all out cheat days! I dont know what it is lately, but I never have a craving for anything! I look at pizza and it looks yummy, then one bite later I am full. I just seem to have enough room in my stomach and tolerance for my protien. I do get my fats in the forms of nuts and Flax oil w/omegas. I just dont enjoy eating all that much anymore. I use to think how am I ever going to get hard and lean, but now i am here, and all the time. I have got veins criss crossing all over my legs, outer arms its kind of freaky sometimes. I think I am too lean and it may be interferring with my ability to add muscle. I think the GH may be keeping me super lean, but is it keeping me from adding muscle?

 

[big4nuthin]

I have been told the same thing by others

i would throw some good ole cheeseburgers in the mix, add some dirty calories every few days and even if you dont have cravings, you need to have a cheat day to "trick" your body. if you dont have one, your body can get into a rut or a pattern when you eat the same and train the same, and take the same drugs. you know, maybe you might even think of some IGF-LR3. if you do, make sure and go the IGtropin route. it will pay off in the long run, but i would generally say that i also am genetically predisposed with a small bone structure and the ability to stay lean year round. and the only thing that will get my BF up to around 11-13% is cheeseburgers from a greasy spoon type of a place. i know i will get flamed for this, but thats what makes me gain!!!

Max,

A good freind of mine who just turned pro a year ago said the exact same thing. he told me for the next two weeks just change everything about your current nutrition regimen. Eat burgers, Meatloaf and gravy, meat balls and pasta and ice cream shakes. Train the same, just change your whole diet and then after that twoo week period go back to your high protien regimen for at least 2-3 weeks before doing it all over. At first I thought he was f****** w/me, but the more i hear others say the similiar things the more I think i may try it. Keep in mind I want to add muscle, not just weight. Only one way to find out. Now just have to get mentally psyched to do it.

 

[big4nuthin]

Dogma, its worth a shot thats for sure.

The human body is THE MOST ADAPTIVE organism on this earth. If nothing is working then you should change everything. You just may be the poster boy for adaptive physiology. I feel diet, supplements and training should all be cycled, changed as time goes on because you must change in order to restimulate and trigger change's in the body.

I guess thats what I am trying to figure out. What and how much change. I use to think if I just had better gear or more of it I could be a pro! LOL! I am grateful for what I have achieved and thank God everyday for this. I just need to figure out how to make some more progress.

 

[DOGMA]

Well you got a good outlook. Good luck I am sure you will get past this. Just dont forget to tell us how and what you did.

 

[big4nuthin]

Always willing to share what little I do know

Well you got a good outlook. Good luck I am sure you will get past this. Just dont forget to tell us how and what you did.

and when i figure this one out, I will come back to this thread and share what I learned. Thanks to all who have taken the time to help, I really do appreciate it.

 

[BCC]

Gaining should be a pretty simple concept. So what if you eat all the time, obviously it isn't enough.

If you're eating 5000 calories a day and not gaining, eat 5200, then 5500, then 6000.

Nobody says this is going to be easy, I hate food because I eat so much of it, but if I want to continue getting bigger I don't have a choice.

I know how you feel about wasting what you're doing, but you've GOTTA eat more. Changing your routine or drugs (with the exception of water retention) isn't going to make you gain more weight. Tissue has to be made from something, and that's food.

 

[Crowler]

Gaining should be a pretty simple concept. So what if you eat all the time, obviously it isn't enough.

If you're eating 5000 calories a day and not gaining, eat 5200, then 5500, then 6000.

Nobody says this is going to be easy, I hate food because I eat so much of it, but if I want to continue getting bigger I don't have a choice.

I know how you feel about wasting what you're doing, but you've GOTTA eat more. Changing your routine or drugs (with the exception of water retention) isn't going to make you gain more weight. Tissue has to be made from something, and that's food.

It is a simple concept but not neccessarily easy to follow. I am suprised this wasn't pointed out before. Gotta eat more. To me that is the toughest part. The workouts and AS are a breeze compared to eating enough for me.


CROWLER

 

[big4nuthin]

Eating more

Gaining should be a pretty simple concept. So what if you eat all the time, obviously it isn't enough.

If you're eating 5000 calories a day and not gaining, eat 5200, then 5500, then 6000.

Nobody says this is going to be easy, I hate food because I eat so much of it, but if I want to continue getting bigger I don't have a choice.

I know how you feel about wasting what you're doing, but you've GOTTA eat more. Changing your routine or drugs (with the exception of water retention) isn't going to make you gain more weight. Tissue has to be made from something, and that's food.

Bcc,

I wish you could have spent the last 3 months with me and seen how much I ate or perhaps how little depending on what you think a lot is. Sometimes when I think about how much I did eat, I feel there was room for another 2 cans of pure chicken breast(Costco cans about 65 grams of protien per can) on top of the 4 cans already, but then again i think of all those time I sat there blending everything because I just couldnt handle chewing food anymore. I am not trying to cop out, and maybe your right. i just dont know how much more I have to eat in order to progress from here. How long can i eat that much food anyways, beffore i just die from over eating? LOL, j/k! Any suggestions on how you do it, and what you do? Thanks.

 

[xcelbeyond]

From your previous posts (and pic), I assumed you understood/know nutrition.

You NEED to eat properly to get big, but I don't necessarily agree that "just eat more" is always the solution. I can eat "more" and put on size (muscle AND fat) and it gets to the point that I disgust myself with the way I look - too fat (which is where I currently am). In the process of removing the fat to look good, it's way too easy to lose that precious muscle that was gained in the process.

So, why not gain muscle smarter (not put on much fat) when the viscous cycle just puts you at a minimum gain if not loss? IMHO, these are the gains that will stick.

Now I realize everyone is somewhat different in this respect. Bodytype plays a big factor: endo, ecto, meso, as well as age and "daily" activity level.

I've seriously attacked the high protein route and in all honesty, all it really did was make me fat. Sure I gained muscle, just as much, if not more of the gain was fat. I think nutrition is a fine balance that each of us must learn what's best for our goals.

 

[Crowler]

I agree with most of what you said Excel. ( I know you are relieved about that )


I think Phil said one time that you can ask everyone else how they reacted to a certain AS or supplement or workout but you really wont know til you tried it yourself.

big4nuthin I feel your pain. For some the solution is more protein. For me I just now after MANY years of trying different things am getting really nice gains by upping my carbs and not worrying so much about getting in 400g of protein a day they way I used to.

So for me it was upping my carbs even if it meant I didn't have enough room to eat as much protein. Funny thing is I actually am gaining LESS fat then when I was eating the same # of protein calories.

You might laugh but I found eating animal crackers has made it easy to eat 3000 cals of carbs a day and not feeling completely bloated like I did when I tried eating a ton of oats or other 'clean' carbs.


CROWLER

 

[maxsupplements]

You might laugh but I found eating animal crackers has made it easy to eat 3000 cals of carbs a day and not feeling completely bloated like I did when I tried eating a ton of oats or other 'clean' carbs

ha ha ha ha!!! i wasnt gonna admit this, but i do this also, like a few cup fulls each day at work. they are great snack, and i can eat a ton and not feel bloated like i do when i eat oatmeal.
ha ha ha... too funny

 

[BCC]

LOL this is funny, I work at a YMCA on the weekends and I just stumbled on some animal crackers (screw the kids, I'm hungry) and forgot how great they are.