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offseason peptides and insulin

digbick

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hello there,I am thinking of using cjc dac,ipa and insulin for my incoming offseason,problem is I don't know how to incorporate the insulin but prefer low dose on training days only...my peptide protocol will be like this..

cjc dac 2mg x 2 per week
ipa 200mcg 3x per day

how should I dose my insulin?pre or post wo?

another question will be if I am to use ghrp2 as well does it okay?

thanks.
 

Mike Arnold

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hello there,I am thinking of using cjc dac,ipa and insulin for my incoming offseason,problem is I don't know how to incorporate the insulin but prefer low dose on training days only...my peptide protocol will be like this..

cjc dac 2mg x 2 per week
ipa 200mcg 3x per day

how should I dose my insulin?pre or post wo?

another question will be if I am to use ghrp2 as well does it okay?

thanks.
Pre-workout is my recommendation. Use regular human insulin, such as Novolog ($23 a vial at Walmart). As far as dosing goes, I would use at least 10 iu. Of course, you should take a few training sessions to work up to that dose; to acclimate yourself to the effects of insulin, but after that there is no sense is using something like 3-4 iu. It's nothing. 10-15 iu pre-training (of Novolog) is a good dose for guys over 200 pounds (assuming insulin sensitivity is decent), while 8-12 iu is a good dose for guys under 200 pounds. Obviously, someone should have at least a moderate degree of development before they start including insulin in their program, but if done responsibly (which means don't take it too often and make sure to implement insulin sensitizing measures), these doses can be used pre-training indefinitely with a high degree of safety and minimal health risk.

GHRP-2 is stronger, per mg, than Ipam. If I had to choose between 200 mg of Ipam and 200 mg of GHRP-2 per dose, I would select the GHRP-2 all day long.
 

ShZ

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Pre-workout is my recommendation. Use regular human insulin, such as Novolog ($23 a vial at Walmart). As far as dosing goes, I would use at least 10 iu. Of course, you should take a few training sessions to work up to that dose; to acclimate yourself to the effects of insulin, but after that there is no sense is using something like 3-4 iu. It's nothing. 10-15 iu pre-training (of Novolog) is a good dose for guys over 200 pounds (assuming insulin sensitivity is decent), while 8-12 iu is a good dose for guys under 200 pounds. Obviously, someone should have at least a moderate degree of development before they start including insulin in their program, but if done responsibly (which means don't take it too often and make sure to implement insulin sensitizing measures), these doses can be used pre-training indefinitely with a high degree of safety and minimal health risk.
How exactly do you calculate your carb intake during and after a workout?
Is it also necessary to have a pre workout meal with some carbs when you have an intra workout shake?

I experimented with Insulin pre workout for some time. However, I could never go beyond 5 ius and even at that dose I went hypo several times during my workouts. I shot Humulin-R immediately pre workout. My intra workout shake consisted of 75-100g Vitargo (depending on what bodypart I was training), 25g Whey Hydrolysate, 5g Creatin, 5g Leucin and some addititonal supps like Trimethylglycine, Taurine, Beta-Alanin, etc. followed by an immediate post workout meal consisting of 500g sweet potatoes, 250g chicken and some veggies. Bodyweight is around 200 pounds, working out 5-6 times a week for no longer than an hour.
 

RamboStallone

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Pre-workout is my recommendation. Use regular human insulin, such as Novolog ($23 a vial at Walmart). As far as dosing goes, I would use at least 10 iu. Of course, you should take a few training sessions to work up to that dose; to acclimate yourself to the effects of insulin, but after that there is no sense is using something like 3-4 iu. It's nothing. 10-15 iu pre-training (of Novolog) is a good dose for guys over 200 pounds (assuming insulin sensitivity is decent), while 8-12 iu is a good dose for guys under 200 pounds. Obviously, someone should have at least a moderate degree of development before they start including insulin in their program, but if done responsibly (which means don't take it too often and make sure to implement insulin sensitizing measures), these doses can be used pre-training indefinitely with a high degree of safety and minimal health risk.

GHRP-2 is stronger, per mg, than Ipam. If I had to choose between 200 mg of Ipam and 200 mg of GHRP-2 per dose, I would select the GHRP-2 all day long.
Mike I believe you meant novilin-r which is at walmart for cheap? I'm interested in using -r. Felt it was better for me in the past and captured the entire pre, intra, and post window. I was taking it around half hour before training. I train after work so can't really control that.
 

Mike Arnold

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Mike I believe you meant novilin-r which is at walmart for cheap? I'm interested in using -r. Felt it was better for me in the past and captured the entire pre, intra, and post window. I was taking it around half hour before training. I train after work so can't really control that.
Yes, I really fucked that one up. Thanks.

I think Novolin R is ideal for pre-training use for the same reason you just mentioned--it captures the entire training window.
 
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Mike Arnold

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Pre-workout is my recommendation. Use regular human insulin, such as Novolog ($23 a vial at Walmart). As far as dosing goes, I would use at least 10 iu. Of course, you should take a few training sessions to work up to that dose; to acclimate yourself to the effects of insulin, but after that there is no sense is using something like 3-4 iu. It's nothing. 10-15 iu pre-training (of Novolog) is a good dose for guys over 200 pounds (assuming insulin sensitivity is decent), while 8-12 iu is a good dose for guys under 200 pounds. Obviously, someone should have at least a moderate degree of development before they start including insulin in their program, but if done responsibly (which means don't take it too often and make sure to implement insulin sensitizing measures), these doses can be used pre-training indefinitely with a high degree of safety and minimal health risk.

GHRP-2 is stronger, per mg, than Ipam. If I had to choose between 200 mg of Ipam and 200 mg of GHRP-2 per dose, I would select the GHRP-2 all day long.

Guys, as Rambo pointed out earlier, I meant to say Novolin-R, NOT Novolog.
 

Mike Arnold

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How exactly do you calculate your carb intake during and after a workout?
Is it also necessary to have a pre workout meal with some carbs when you have an intra workout shake?

I experimented with Insulin pre workout for some time. However, I could never go beyond 5 ius and even at that dose I went hypo several times during my workouts. I shot Humulin-R immediately pre workout. My intra workout shake consisted of 75-100g Vitargo (depending on what bodypart I was training), 25g Whey Hydrolysate, 5g Creatin, 5g Leucin and some addititonal supps like Trimethylglycine, Taurine, Beta-Alanin, etc. followed by an immediate post workout meal consisting of 500g sweet potatoes, 250g chicken and some veggies. Bodyweight is around 200 pounds, working out 5-6 times a week for no longer than an hour.
You went "hyper"...not "hypo". How do I know that. Well, 5 iu of regular human insulin taken immediately pre-training is NOT enough to make anyone go hypo under those circumstances. Why? For starters. you were eating 75-100 grams of Karbolyn and 25 grams whey hydrolysate intra-workout, which is the equivalent of 100-125 grams of carbs from a blood glucose control standpoint (note: the body can easily convert hydrolyzed proteins into glucose when needed). Furthermore, you wouldn't have been exposed to more than 2-3 iu of exo. insulin during training...maximum...as Novolin-R releases fairly evenly over roughly a 5 hour period. This means that your body would have required "at least" 40-60 grams of carbs per iu in order to just maintain its BG levels.

But we also have to consider the additional glucose that was still in your bloodstream from your pre-training meal. So, in order to go hypo during training from 2-3 iu of insulin, your body would have required not only the 100-125 gram of carbs referenced above, but also all of your previously existing blood glucose.

There's more. You see also would have had to overwhelm your body's natural defense system against hypoglycemia. You see, the liver is easily capable of defending against a 5 iu dose of Novolin-R, even without any carbs at all. As soon as BG levels would have started to drop below normal, your body's natural defense system would have kicked in and your liver would have started dumping glucose into the bloodstream in order to normalize BG levels.

So, in order to go hypo from 5 iu you would have had to exhaust your entire supply of glucose from your 125 grams of carbs, your previously existing blood glucose, and depleted your liver's back-up supply of glucose. All that from just 2-3 iu?

You also said you consumed an additional 500 grams of sweet potatoes and 250 grams of chicken "immediately" after training, which would have provided you with another large burst of glucose within 2 hours of your insulin injection.

That is a whole lot of blood glucose available to the body within a short period of time---way more than enough to deal with a 5 iu dose of Novolin-R.

Remember, the symptoms of elevated BG levels can often mimic those of low BG levels...and it can be difficult for beginners to distinguish between the two. I have encountered numerous first-time insulin users and relative beginners who told me they went hypo on 3-5 iu of regular human insulin and many of these guys ate even more carbs than you did. I knew one guy who consumed 800 grams of carbs over a 4 hour period and swore to me he went hypo from 3 iu. In every case the problem wasn't hypoglycemia, but hyperglycemia. They ate so many carbs in an attempt to stave off hypoglycemia that they actually overwhelmed the body's ability to shuttle glucose into the cells and were stricken with a bad case of hyperglycemia.

I have no doubt that this is what happened in your case. Even if you were doing one non-stop super-set for your entire workout, there is still no way you body could have rifled through that much glucose.
 

ShZ

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You went "hyper"...not "hypo". How do I know that. Well, 5 iu of regular human insulin taken immediately pre-training is NOT enough to make anyone go hypo under those circumstances. Why? For starters. you were eating 75-100 grams of Karbolyn and 25 grams whey hydrolysate intra-workout, which is the equivalent of 100-125 grams of carbs from a blood glucose control standpoint (note: the body can easily convert hydrolyzed proteins into glucose when needed). Furthermore, you wouldn't have been exposed to more than 2-3 iu of exo. insulin during training...maximum...as Novolin-R releases fairly evenly over roughly a 5 hour period. This means that your body would have required "at least" 40-60 grams of carbs per iu in order to just maintain its BG levels.

But we also have to consider the additional glucose that was still in your bloodstream from your pre-training meal. So, in order to go hypo during training from 2-3 iu of insulin, your body would have required not only the 100-125 gram of carbs referenced above, but also all of your previously existing blood glucose.

There's more. You see also would have had to overwhelm your body's natural defense system against hypoglycemia. You see, the liver is easily capable of defending against a 5 iu dose of Novolin-R, even without any carbs at all. As soon as BG levels would have started to drop below normal, your body's natural defense system would have kicked in and your liver would have started dumping glucose into the bloodstream in order to normalize BG levels.

So, in order to go hypo from 5 iu you would have had to exhaust your entire supply of glucose from your 125 grams of carbs, your previously existing blood glucose, and depleted your liver's back-up supply of glucose. All that from just 2-3 iu?

You also said you consumed an additional 500 grams of sweet potatoes and 250 grams of chicken "immediately" after training, which would have provided you with another large burst of glucose within 2 hours of your insulin injection.

That is a whole lot of blood glucose available to the body within a short period of time---way more than enough to deal with a 5 iu dose of Novolin-R.

Remember, the symptoms of elevated BG levels can often mimic those of low BG levels...and it can be difficult for beginners to distinguish between the two. I have encountered numerous first-time insulin users and relative beginners who told me they went hypo on 3-5 iu of regular human insulin and many of these guys ate even more carbs than you did. I knew one guy who consumed 800 grams of carbs over a 4 hour period and swore to me he went hypo from 3 iu. In every case the problem wasn't hypoglycemia, but hyperglycemia. They ate so many carbs in an attempt to stave off hypoglycemia that they actually overwhelmed the body's ability to shuttle glucose into the cells and were stricken with a bad case of hyperglycemia.

I have no doubt that this is what happened in your case. Even if you were doing one non-stop super-set for your entire workout, there is still no way you body could have rifled through that much glucose.
Thanks for your detailed answer. That explains a lot.

So, you'd simply up the slin dose and drink the intra workout shake more slowly? And how do you calculate the maximum amount of carbs/glycogen one can effectively use for glycogen retention/pump/recovery around the workout before spilling over?
 

youngbeast2231

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Take your slin working up to 10-15 iu. Make sure your dealing with the right type of insulin. Like he said Novolin R not novolog. There's a huge difference. Take 10 iu eat meal consisting of protein source and 50-60 grams of carbs along with a healthy fats if u wish. Drink 50-75 grams vitargo during with BCAA/ whey as I mentioned and whatever else u take intra. Post shake with typically be another 50 grams carbs with 50-75 grams whey. 1 hour later eat a real meal. With long acting insulin you don't need 10 grams per iu. Usually 5-7 is plenty. But it peaks at 2 hours so definitely be sipping on them intra. Hope this was helpful.
 

Gunsmith

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I prefer to dose my insulin to meat my diet not the other way around.

Novalin-R has an active life of about 5 hrs for me when shot IM and takes around 30-40 to onset.

So look at it like this

You should start with 10g carbs per iu insulin minimum

Shoot your 10iu insulin and start sipping your intra workout drink than has 50g carbs at say 4pm
10 min drive to the gym
Train for 60 min , tell everyone by , flirt with cute trainer ( don't judge me)
5:15pm , Start drinking post workout shake , 50g whey , 50g carbs
6:30pm , 50g protein 50g carbs from yams
9pm , couple rice cakes 20carbs , 3 whole eggs

Now your active insulin winds has been covered by nearly double you needed carbs and you haven't "over eaten" anything so the chance of gaining fat is greatly reduced/eliminated.

After 3 days increase the insulin dose to 12 iu , three more days add 2 more iu now you are at 14 iu and STILL have not over eaten , if your brave bump it to 16 iu. Personally I think this is plenty for most everyone and I'd stay there for a couple weeks before cycling off the slain for a week. When you start back start at 14 iu , add 10 g carbs to each serving and there you go

keep glucose tabs/gel and a Gatorade on you at all times
 

Big-Dawg

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I prefer to dose my insulin to meat my diet not the other way around.

Novalin-R has an active life of about 5 hrs for me when shot IM and takes around 30-40 to onset.

So look at it like this

You should start with 10g carbs per iu insulin minimum

Shoot your 10iu insulin and start sipping your intra workout drink than has 50g carbs at say 4pm
10 min drive to the gym
Train for 60 min , tell everyone by , flirt with cute trainer ( don't judge me)
5:15pm , Start drinking post workout shake , 50g whey , 50g carbs
6:30pm , 50g protein 50g carbs from yams
9pm , couple rice cakes 20carbs , 3 whole eggs

Now your active insulin winds has been covered by nearly double you needed carbs and you haven't "over eaten" anything so the chance of gaining fat is greatly reduced/eliminated.

After 3 days increase the insulin dose to 12 iu , three more days add 2 more iu now you are at 14 iu and STILL have not over eaten , if your brave bump it to 16 iu. Personally I think this is plenty for most everyone and I'd stay there for a couple weeks before cycling off the slain for a week. When you start back start at 14 iu , add 10 g carbs to each serving and there you go

keep glucose tabs/gel and a Gatorade on you at all times
Yes sir well put...I don't use slin but know many experienced users and all follow this plan pretty much...#1 Rule is to dose insulin to diet,do not up diet to meet insulin...

The Growth Clinic©Sponsored Athlete & REP®THE REAPER
 

Landmonster

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Is there any benefit to running a GHRP-2 or 2 without the CJC (DAC or non-DAC?)

How about GHRP-2 along with MK677?
 

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