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PCT+PEPS+S.A.R.M.S.= RETENTION OF GAINS?

forklift28

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I am going to keep running my research peps until i hear they will kill you or I run out of money,and I also plan on using a s.a.r.m. at the conclusion of my dvd viewing..along with a reg. p.c.t. protocol. My question is there a specific ghrp/ghrh combination that is more capable of helping me keep my gains post cycle. I have ghrp-6,2, and hexarelin..and combine them with cjc-1295.I would like to hear that someone has already found a successful combo.,..but some scientific literature to back up this question would be awesome.And I have googled this topic a few times with no luck, for those few dudes who tell me to do my own research.Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
:lightbulb:
 

chemicalwarrior

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It's just a thought, but since you want to retain gains most of all, ghrp-6 with its hunger inducing sides may be of benefit.
 

forklift28

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What you think of stacking the two available sarms together..you think it would be useless..like they might just compete for the same receptors?sounds good in theory..especially after a nice cycle.
 

chemicalwarrior

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I'm not sure whether it would work better with both or not, but I imagine it would- the same way test and tren go together. With these sarms, s4 is more androgenic and osta-sarm is more anabolic, so in theory they should compliment each-other. But, I'm still not sure exactly how they work: i.e. are they stimulating the androgen receptor making it maximally active? I really don't know what all factors come into play here to be honest.

I plan on using both though. :D
 

forklift28

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That's good..if they compliment each other then that would be awesome..I know somebody else has to have stacked these two together, i would like to hear their results..but either way I'm going to try it out and we both know of a good source for them for a decent price :D just let me know if you experiment before I do, and I will do the same..good luck bro.
 

chemicalwarrior

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Sounds good. I plan on using the new one (ostarine) at the end of this cycle (about 5 weeks?... we'll see how long it lasts) and what I have left of s4.

I will say this, I don't believe the sarms are gonna do much for guys that are on HRT/never come completely off. If you are on 200 mg of test/week, then I don't think you'll even really notice a sarm because the effects just aren't that radical. 200 mg test will keep you afloat more than likely and minimize gains loss. But, if you like to come off, like I do, then they are a godsend! I always recover while using s4 and I've used it during 4 pcts now. How high my test levels exactly are when I start up again, I couldn't say. All I know is I keep a lot more gains and my sex drive, energy levels and so on all come back just as if I was doing my normal pct. (You get to know your body after a number of cycles/pcts and can see the trends in sex drive etc. if you take note of it. Imo, it doesn't take blood tests to say, "Yeah, I'm shut down right now.." You just know because you don't feel like fucking for a couple few weeks. Then, it comes back. The balls return to "normal" size etc.)
 

Thebigone

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Is there %100 proof that sarms doesnt cause any harm to hpta. I havent seen any bloodwork done with anyone using it. I'd stick to peps/gh/pct to play it safe.
 

forklift28

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Andarine (s-4) can cause shutdown at higher dosages..ostarine causes none at a minimal dose of 3 mg. , so I'M thinking if you stick to minimal dosages of this stuff for pct then it should not interfere with the htpa..only high dosages suppresses you.I'm going to do more research on a dose of andarine that will not cause suppression,..i think about 15 to 20mg. is pretty close.Btw..that site I told you about is about to offer s-4 at a very good price..I e-mailed them to ask for a release date last night..also I notices that sarms#$rch carries ostarine now..mk-8866..but its is very expensive..i found a very informative site on sarms you should check out..:lightbulb:http://www.sarms.com/index.php..its got some good info on sarms and it seems the guy is not biased.Keep me updated on your plans or research.Later bro.
 

chemicalwarrior

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Thanks Forklift! Good stuff.

About the hpta shutdown thing. I agree with Forklift on this one. No, I haven't had bloodwork, but plenty of first hand experience. As I understand it, s4 is about 1/3 as androgenic as testosterone mg for mg. I could be wrong on that, but that's what I've read. If that's the case then taking 50 mg/day 5 days per week would be roughly equal to taking 82.5 mg per week of a very short acting testosterone broken up into several doses. That would mean that recovery is possible and likely if you are otherwise healthy in that dept. But, if not, then it's not going to be the best route. i.e. if you have trouble recovering as is, then s4 isn't the best addition to a pct. I've never had trouble really and like my results.

My plan is to take the new sarm combined with 25 mg or less of s4 during my next pct.
 

Wonton

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interesting let us know how it goes.
 

forklift28

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Thanks Forklift! Good stuff.

About the hpta shutdown thing. I agree with Forklift on this one. No, I haven't had bloodwork, but plenty of first hand experience. As I understand it, s4 is about 1/3 as androgenic as testosterone mg for mg. I could be wrong on that, but that's what I've read. If that's the case then taking 50 mg/day 5 days per week would be roughly equal to taking 82.5 mg per week of a very short acting testosterone broken up into several doses. That would mean that recovery is possible and likely if you are otherwise healthy in that dept. But, if not, then it's not going to be the best route. i.e. if you have trouble recovering as is, then s4 isn't the best addition to a pct. I've never had trouble really and like my results.

My plan is to take the new sarm combined with 25 mg or less of s4 during my next pct.


So have you started your experiment chemwarrior?I am very interested in following your same protocol..sounds promising..I'm like you..I like to come off but I also want to keep my gains..at least as much as possible.
 

chemicalwarrior

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Not quite yet. I'm working on strength gains and still on cycle at the moment. But, I've run s4 during pct several times. This last time with the gh peptides was the most successful I've experienced. My guess is that the new sarm won't really blow my old results out of the water- sarms just don't seem to work like that, they're more subtle. But, I want to experience it, see what it has to offer. If it truly is less androgenic and is better at keeping size then it's a win win.

For the record, I really notice a big difference in gains retention using sarms (s4) pct vs without. I know I've stated that before, but just wanted to be clear. I feel it's their biggest benefit.
 

forklift28

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Not quite yet. I'm working on strength gains and still on cycle at the moment. But, I've run s4 during pct several times. This last time with the gh peptides was the most successful I've experienced. My guess is that the new sarm won't really blow my old results out of the water- sarms just don't seem to work like that, they're more subtle. But, I want to experience it, see what it has to offer. If it truly is less androgenic and is better at keeping size then it's a win win.

For the record, I really notice a big difference in gains retention using sarms (s4) pct vs without. I know I've stated that before, but just wanted to be clear. I feel it's their biggest benefit.


Thats what I think too..and for the potential of them helping retain gains I think the price is worth it.
 

chemicalwarrior

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It's kind of like peptides, igfs, and sarms are pieces of a puzzle. If used correctly they really help complete the picture.
 

theunion

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It's kind of like peptides, igfs, and sarms are pieces of a puzzle. If used correctly they really help complete the picture.

Pressed by the notion that SARMS appear to be more expensive than their counterparts such as IGF-1 LR3 and MGF, what would you say helped you retain gains more, or what would you chose if you only had the option of one?

Provided, of course, that a GHRP of sorts and GHRH is being run at the same time.

Would you say SARMs gave you more benefits of gains/keeping gains than igf-1/mgf would comparably give?

I am interested in SARMs, but they seem so expensive. When you account that you can purchase IGF1 and MGF combo for less than what you buy 1 SARM for, I am very motivated to hear what would be a wiser purchase in terms of cost:benefit ratio.
 

chemicalwarrior

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Here's my honest to goodness take on what is best for actual muscle growth with 1 being best and working down from there.

1) Steroids- test, tren etc. Definitely the can't lose muscle gainer/retainer

2) Sarms- at least s4 as it's what I've tried. It's the only other thing besides steroids that had a noticeable, measurable effect on muscle growth that I could see within a matter of weeks. I used it independently of aas and not part of pct (I was already recovered, so a bit of a difference) and gained about 3-4 lbs of muscle in 5-6 weeks while on a ketogenic diet. When used during pct I don't necessarily gain, but I lose much much less.

3) Slin- I only notice gains with slin when I use it on cycle. Off cycle it doesn't seem to do much of anything. I can't explain that really. When used with steroids it's great. Using humalog pre-workout 3 x a week boosts my gains 25-30% overall. But, again, I don't get anything much from it on its own for some reason.

4) GH- Some gains, but mostly fat loss. But, when compared side by side with gh peptides, GH itself is better for gains when used at 5 iu/day and above. Again, works better with test (what doesn't?).

5) Igf-1 lr3/mgf etc- Insulin like effects. Vague, hard-to-define gains in my experience. Am I getting just the same effects as insulin? Is there hyperplasia? Site growth? If I can't answer that for sure, then I'm not going to rank it up there as very high on my priority list. But, for the insulin like effects alone it's worth it. And, I believe there is some site-enhancement with mgf. But, it's hard to prove. Unlike insulin, I can see some gains when not on aas. So there's that benefit. Who knows what all is going on here.

6) GH peptides- GHRPs, GRFs etc. Great for fat loss, muscle and joint repair and so on. But, without using in conjunction with GH I don't see actual "gains" from these combos. Throw in a bit of GH in the mix and the effects double, joints feel better, weight is gained, muscles fuller. Greatly synergistic together. Also, since they help keep you leaner, there's the benefit of being able to take in more calories and not having them go to fat. Theoretically more will be used for muscle. But, on their own, I think most of these peptides even have kind of an anorectic effect and even cause more bowel movements. Valuable, but you gotta work to make them work for you with proper diet etc. Not a magic growth bullet like testosterone is.
 

chemicalwarrior

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Pressed by the notion that SARMS appear to be more expensive than their counterparts such as IGF-1 LR3 and MGF, what would you say helped you retain gains more, or what would you chose if you only had the option of one?

Provided, of course, that a GHRP of sorts and GHRH is being run at the same time.

Would you say SARMs gave you more benefits of gains/keeping gains than igf-1/mgf would comparably give?

I am interested in SARMs, but they seem so expensive. When you account that you can purchase IGF1 and MGF combo for less than what you buy 1 SARM for, I am very motivated to hear what would be a wiser purchase in terms of cost:benefit ratio.

I don't see sarms as that expensive. Even the more expensive places it works out to about $164 for an 8+ week run of s4 to be used for pct. How much would 8 weeks of igf-1 lr3/mgf combo run? Depends on how you run it, but not much different. It's gonna run you about $160 (after shipping) for 1 mg of igf-1 lr3 and 4 mg of mgf if you are getting quality stuff. Same thing with ghrp-2/mod grf 1-29 combo. If you shoot 3 x day at 100 mcg each shot then you are looking at a very similar price there as well. As I wrote about above, s4 outshines them all (though each have their place and value!) when it comes to pct gains retention. I think it's that important.
 

theunion

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I don't see sarms as that expensive. Even the more expensive places it works out to about $164 for an 8+ week run of s4 to be used for pct. How much would 8 weeks of igf-1 lr3/mgf combo run? Depends on how you run it, but not much different. It's gonna run you about $160 (after shipping) for 1 mg of igf-1 lr3 and 4 mg of mgf if you are getting quality stuff. Same thing with ghrp-2/mod grf 1-29 combo. If you shoot 3 x day at 100 mcg each shot then you are looking at a very similar price there as well. As I wrote about above, s4 outshines them all (though each have their place and value!) when it comes to pct gains retention. I think it's that important.

I see.

Is there any good place to read up on SARMs? Or any place that gives a good protocol for use?
 

chemicalwarrior

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Not really. Lol. Seriously, all the info is feedback from bros like me. As far as s4 goes, 50 mg per day broken into 2 doses taking 2 days off per week is the way to go for pct. It's pretty simple. The two days off is to prevent vision side effects (I never got them very bad and they clear up quick). PM me if you need anything in depth. I hope I'm not coming off cocky on this stuff, I'm just passionate about sarms because they are a solid addition (understatement!) to any pct imo. I'll never go back to not using them if I can possibly help it.

I can gain as much as 30 lbs total on a short cycle (6-8 weeks). Out of that 30 lbs 10 to 12 is water, 7 will be fat and 8-10 lbs will be muscle. Without s4 I generally keep only 4-5 lbs of that muscle, with it I'll keep more like 7-8 lbs. That's how much of a difference it makes. In the past year and a half since beginning to use s4 during pct I've gained 21.8 lbs of lean muscle. And, that includes about 6 months of hard-core contest dieting where I certainly wasn't gaining anything. In a similar period in the past I would likely have gained only half that amount because I was always taking 2 steps forward and 1 step back going on and coming off aas. It's all about accumulation and a lot more of that happens when I am retaining more post cycle.
 

theunion

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Not really. Lol. Seriously, all the info is feedback from bros like me. As far as s4 goes, 50 mg per day broken into 2 doses taking 2 days off per week is the way to go for pct. It's pretty simple. The two days off is to prevent vision side effects (I never got them very bad and they clear up quick). PM me if you need anything in depth. I hope I'm not coming off cocky on this stuff, I'm just passionate about sarms because they are a solid addition (understatement!) to any pct imo. I'll never go back to not using them if I can possibly help it.

I can gain as much as 30 lbs total on a short cycle (6-8 weeks). Out of that 30 lbs 10 to 12 is water, 7 will be fat and 8-10 lbs will be muscle. Without s4 I generally keep only 4-5 lbs of that muscle, with it I'll keep more like 7-8 lbs. That's how much of a difference it makes. In the past year and a half since beginning to use s4 during pct I've gained 21.8 lbs of lean muscle. And, that includes about 6 months of hard-core contest dieting where I certainly wasn't gaining anything. In a similar period in the past I would likely have gained only half that amount because I was always taking 2 steps forward and 1 step back going on and coming off aas. It's all about accumulation and a lot more of that happens when I am retaining more post cycle.

50mg or 50mcg? Do you inject it, or is it oral? So 50mg 5 days a week-do you want these on your training days, if possible?

I'm still in my 3rd week of PCT and igf-1 +mgf has been very good to me, but I would like to try something new is it presented itself as worth my money.

Where is a good place that has a decent price? I only know of ID that carries them.
 

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