pct question

[builder]

hey Gang,

here is what i am looking to try this year:

16 weeks
400mg/week primo depot
100mg/day var

the reason i am not including test is that i am very acne prone especially when it comes to test. the last cycle i had of test gave me cystic acne on my back and chest. so therefore i am trying a cycle without it.

what would you recommend for PCT for this cycle?

thanks

 

[builder]

ok so i have found the following info

Clomid
day 1 - 300mg
10 days - 100mg
10 days - 50mg

or

Nolvadex
day 1 - 100mg
10 days - 60mg
10 days - 40mg

or

Day 1 - Clomid 200mg + Nolvadex 40mg
10 days - Clomid 50mg + Nolvadex 20mg
10 days - Clomid 50mg or Nolvadex 20mg

so my question has changed to "which would be the best for the cycle i have posted?"

Thanks

 

[minister]

I would like to know how big you are bro, Primo is not very effective in doses less then 600 mgs unless you are a small guy, and be careful with the anavar bro, remember var is a A-17 drug, liver toxic,not as safe as people think, I would go to 600 mgs of primo and drop the var to 50 a day. As for your PCT, keep in mind Primo is the mildest of all AAs, and even though it does shut down natural production is way easier to bounce back, so I would add a little HCG to your PCT, probably 1200 Iu every 5 days for 20 days and go with the 3rd pct you posted, however I would cut down the clomid on day one to 100 mg, and keep the rest the way it is, reason being high doses of clomid can cause vision problems,(cataracts,etc). Hope this helps bro, God bless you. The Minister.

 

[builder]

I would like to know how big you are bro, Primo is not very effective in doses less then 600 mgs unless you are a small guy, and be careful with the anavar bro, remember var is a A-17 drug, liver toxic,not as safe as people think, I would go to 600 mgs of primo and drop the var to 50 a day. As for your PCT, keep in mind Primo is the mildest of all AAs, and even though it does shut down natural production is way easier to bounce back, so I would add a little HCG to your PCT, probably 1200 Iu every 5 days for 20 days and go with the 3rd pct you posted, however I would cut down the clomid on day one to 100 mg, and keep the rest the way it is, reason being high doses of clomid can cause vision problems,(cataracts,etc). Hope this helps bro, God bless you. The Minister.

awesome info thanks bro.

i am 5'8 about 195lbs. the var is liquid var and i am curious if taking it under the tongue would make it easier on your liver?

so pct should look like this:

Day 1 - Clomid 100mg + Nolvadex 40mg
10 days - Clomid 50mg + Nolvadex 20mg
10 days - Clomid 50mg or Nolvadex 20mg
1200iu HCG every 5 days for 20 days

 

[Shark22]

Check out HCG as part of your PCT and Cycle

 

[randyh4]

Var is soo expensive and hepatotoxic... I would stay low or try liq. Var...primo is pretty mild in terms of hpta shutdown... hcg and nolva should suffice for pct... clomid gets me emotional imo...

 

[builder]

i mentioned above that it is liquid var...i am a rather emotional guy to begin with so should i stay away from the clomid?

 

[randyh4]

Just try it and see what happens .... I just think with nolva you use less in terms of mg's compared to clomid... everyone is different I tried mixing nolva and clomid and it was a lot better than just the clomid by itself... that's me though trial and error at your body's expense lol

 

[builder]

so when do i start hcg? right after cycle is done or start it with the rest of the pct?

 

[minister]

Well, there is a few different points of view as when to start your pct, it all depends if you are using long or short esters, I asume your primo is an enanthate wich is a long ester, in that case you want to start your pct 2 weeks from your last shot, you can start everything on that day, hcg, clomid and nolvadex, however make sure you run your nolvadex for at least a week from your last shot of HCG, just for estrogen management, and another benefit of this is that nolvadex helps restore your lipid count( your bad to good cholesterol ratio). God bless you my friend.

 

[SYG]

so when do i start hcg? right after cycle is done or start it with the rest of the pct?

There seems to be varying point of view on when to start hcg. Some say use it during PCT, some say use it only on cycle and not during PCT because the hcg will inhibit your natural test production and could actually raise estrogen levels (something I don't want during PCT). I run it up to about 1 1/2 weeks after last shot and end it a few days before starting PCT. I believe Macro on here made a very good post about hcg, but I couldn't find it right away.

 

[SYG]

This might help some too. I copied and pasted this from another post in this forum. It was written by Doctor Swale:

"I advise my AAS patients to use small amounts of HCG (250IU to 500IU) two days each week, right from the beginning of the cycle. This serves to maintain testicular form and function. It makes more sense to me to keep the horse in the barn, so to speak, then to have to chase it across three counties later on. I am also a big fan of maintaining estrogen within physiological ranges. Both therapies have been shown to hasten recovery.

Any more than 500IU of HCG per day causes too much aromatase activity. Some feel aromatase is actually toxic to the Leydig cells of the testes. You are then inducing primary hypogonadism (which is permanent) while treating steroid-induced secondary (hypogonadotrophic) hypogonadism (which is temporary--hopefully).

If 250IU or 500IU on two days each week isn’t enough to stave off testicular atrophy, then I recommend using it more days each week (as opposed to taking larger doses). In fact, I wouldn’t mind having a guy use 250IU per day ALL THROUGH the cycle. Those that have tell me they thus avoid that edgy, burned-out feeling they usually get. They also say they simply feel better each day. Subjective reports, to be sure, but they are hard not to appreciate. Especially when HCG is so inexpensive.

The testes are then ready, willing and able to again produce testosterone at the end of the cycle. LH levels rise fairly rapidly, but endogenous testosterone production is limited by lack of use. I also want to make sure a SERM, such as Clomid or Nolvadex, is at effective serum dosage (around 100mg QD for Clomid, 20-40mg QD for Nolvadex) when serum androgen levels drop to a concentration roughly equal to 200mg of testosterone per week. That is when androgenic inhibition at the HP no longer dominates over estrogenic antagonism with respect to inducing LH production. Of course, if the fellow has been doing Clomid or Nolvadex all along the way (and I now prefer Nolvadex over Clomid, due to the possibility of negative sides from the Clomid), he is all set to simply continue it at the end (no need to switch from one to the other). BTW, I see no evidence of any benefit in using BOTH SERM’s at the same time. I used to think a couple of weeks of the SERM was enough; now I like to see an entire month after the last shot of AAS (and migration of long to short esters as the cycle matures). Tapering the SERM is probably a good idea during the last week, as well.

I want my patients to stop taking HCG within a week after the end of the cycle. The testosterone production it induces will further inhibit recovery, as will using Androgel, or any other testosterone preparation, while in recovery. There is no escaping this, as there is no such thing as a “bridge”. Just because you are not inhibiting the HPTA for the entire 24 hours does not mean you are not suppressing it at all. IOW, you can’t “fool” the body—it is smarter than you are.

I like Arimidex during the cycle (in fact, consider use of an AI while taking aromatisables a necessity) but it ABSOLUTELY should not be used post cycle (even though it has been shown to increase LH production) because the risk of driving estrogen too low, and therefore further damaging an already compromised Lipid Profile, is too great (this also drives libido back into the ground—and we don’t want that, do we?).

All this is meant to get my guys through recovery as fast as possible (the real goal, yes?). So far, all of them who have tried it have reported they are recovering faster than when they have tried other protocols."

 

[randyh4]

Great read I too have been curious on what the preffered method is. Def gona try this though thanks for the info

 

[minister]

I agree with some of this info, like the fact of switching from long esters to short esters towards the end of cycle is a great idea, because then you can jump right into PCT, therefore you get to keep lots of your gains, do this on every cycle, however the idea of being on HCG and SERMS during cycle just raises the risk of your body becoming dependant on these drugs to function correctly. I think everything has a time and place, and HCG and SERMS have their place after cycles to help you restore your own production of hormones.

 

[builder]

well just finished this cycle 2 weeks ago and just started my pct. i am very very pleased with the results; i upped the primo to 600mgs/week and since it was liquid var i left it at 100mgs/day. i have done test and deca cycles before and had very bad acne on my back and shoulders and im still working on clearing up the scarring. this cycle i just finished i would do again in a heartbeat! zero acne issues, very nice strength gains and really tightened me up. nice dense hard muscles. very happy!

 

[richiec]

glad to hear your cycle turned out good, results better than you expected? How's the PCT going? What did you decide to run?

 

[builder]

results were what i was expecting. i went with the following PCT:

Day 1 - Clomid 100mg + Nolvadex 40mg
10 days - Clomid 50mg + Nolvadex 20mg
10 days - Clomid 50mg + Nolvadex 20mg

i am in my final week of PCT and it appears to be going quite well. i havent really lost any strength and tbh i think im losing BF? i have gone down about 6lbs since the end of my cycle. in the mirror it appears to be BF im losing....is it possible the PCT is helping me lose BF? i have been a lot hungrier since coming off my cycle and my diet is still clean....i have noticed my heart rate is easier to keep lower when im doing cardio than when i was on my cycle...

 

[Sparkplug]

Great post! Very informative and simplistic!

 

[greaser]

Great post! Very informative and simplistic!

x2

 

[builder]

well about a week after my PCT my chest shoulders and back exploded with acne...very disappointing. not sure what went wrong...should i have ran the pct longer, shorter?