Phil Heath exact dosages - Let another thread commence

[Marvin Martian]

I also couldn’t really give a shit if a guy lies about his dosage. I don’t give ANY credence to anything they say. Their opinion on training,diet,drugs mean NOTHING TO ME. We’ve all known guys that can eat like total shit and stay ripped. Would we ever take their diet advice as gospel? Of course they “could” be giving you excellent advice, but the ONLY way to know what works for you specifically is trial and error. That not what most want to hear.
Getting upset about guys selling supplements is akin to a woman getting upset because the model or movie star that’s doing a commercial for Mabelline actually wears some other designer shit. Remember “Maybe she’s born with it - maybe it’s Mabelline”
Well - 100% of the time she was born with it because Mabelline ain’t making a wench look like a princess. The reality that most advertising is done by people who never use the products or at least didn’t get where they are (in relation to what said product supposedly does) by using this product.

 

[b-boy]

Let's say there was a drug that could make you taller. People would accuse every guy over 6'2" of taking it. And if you saw a guy that's 6'8"? Oh he's DEFINITELY taking it.
And yet; here we are in the real world where there is no such drug, and there are (very few) people over 7 feet tall...

Genetic anomalies do exist.

Wow that is a very good point and you are 100% correct. I wish I would have thought of that comparison.

 

[nothuman]

The “who cares what they used!!!” crowd really gets angry when these threads are made.

Most of us watch these videos because we are curious. We know it won’t change the way we do anything ourselves.

Is being interested in what the greatest bodybuilders of all time took really something to be ashamed about?

It’s a fun topic. That’s why it gets a lot of clicks.

 

[pickapeck]

Phil identifies as a Ferrari. That's what I got outta this.

 

[Pheedno]

Phil identifies as a Ferrari. That's what I got outta this.

lol

 

[KillerStack]

The “who cares what they used!!!” crowd really gets angry when these threads are made.

Most of us watch these videos because we are curious. We know it won’t change the way we do anything ourselves.

Is being interested in what the greatest bodybuilders of all time took really something to be ashamed about?

It’s a fun topic. That’s why it gets a lot of clicks.

100% It is an interesting and fun topic, we are curious, I don't think there is any shame in admitting it. I don't know why the topic pisses people off either.

I can’t believe threads like this make it so far. Phil Heath or Ronnie could come on here and TRULY tell us what they took and nobody would believe them.

Are there pros who take 5-6g of gear- YES

Are there pros who take 1.5-3g of gear- YES

But everyone watches these videos wanting to know what Phil Heath, Jay or Ronnie took. Why?

Because some people are naive enough to think if they take Phil Heath’s cycle they’ll look like him. Got some unfortunate news- you won’t.

I have been talking about "ranges," this is what I mean. You mentioned 2 ranges. It's when guys claim thing like doing 500mg while being a heavyweight or even someone claiming nothing at all, you can be pretty certain it's baloney. Like LATS said it's "GRAMS" in Phil's case, we can say that with high certainty. Anyone here disagree? Probably not, right? Someone going from 3 to 5 grams means the guy has been close to maxed out and is trying to milk everything possible out of the drugs. Sometimes it works and sometimes it actually doesn't. But that first range is still "alot" of steroids, just like LATS said. I've given Nick Walker as an example, what do those that have been around think, is it likely he is doing the first or the second range? How come most everyone who has been around thinks it's most likely over 3 grams? Is it likely he is under or over 10iu of growth? You know what I mean?

I actually doubt anyone thinks they will look like Phil on his dosages. You would have to be at the moron level of intelligence to believe that. Do many think they might be bigger on more drugs? Of course, what's illogical about that?

AND, if drugs aren't why Phil is Phil, and it really isn't for the most part (though they ALLOWED Phil to max out HIS potential), why listen to ANYTHING a champ says made them champions, from training to food? We won't look like Phil if we eat as much protein as he does, we won't look like him copying his training split. So what is there to talk about? Lol.
I actually think there isn't much to talk about that changes much for us, perhaps psychology (in my opinion).

 

[KillerStack]

With Ronnie, I think he is one of the only ones that legitimately probably didn’t know exactly what he took.

His coaching emails might read….2cc test, 2cc masteron, 2cc tren mondays and Thursdays. 2 blue tablets every morning, 1 BP tablet at night, last 3 weeks, add 2 yellow tablets per day.

That guy was a genetic gift and loved to train like a madman and eat like a starving Ethiopian. If a bucket of KFC chicken is in your passenger seat with a bottle of BBQ sauce…..your gonna grow lol

I agree with you, though not with Ronnie being, "one of the only ones." I've pretty much said exactly what you do, many, or MOST, don't care about the difference between an aromatase inhibitor and a SERM. Drug minutia just isn't interesting to many guys. They don't care how a drug works, they want to know "what and how much?" I was just talking to a dealer last night, I told him most bodybuilders don't care about specifics and mechanisms and he agreed, "it's just my personality, I want to be an expert on anything I do, we are probably alike in that respect." We were talking about donating blood, he doesn't just deal drugs but services too lol. Lots of guys immediately signed up for bloodletting by a nurse who did it privately for a fee. They don't care to read up on it, reading about arguments against it or whatever. I wasn't so sure it's a no brainer to do, thanks to posts by a few members here.

I bet my experience is typical, lots of people "don't care" much about the "why's," they just do what others do and what apparently works.

 

[bbxtreme]

100% It is an interesting and fun topic, we are curious, I don't think there is any shame in admitting it. I don't know why the topic pisses people off either.



I have been talking about "ranges," this is what I mean. You mentioned 2 ranges. It's when guys claim thing like doing 500mg while being a heavyweight or even someone claiming nothing at all, you can be pretty certain it's baloney. Like LATS said it's "GRAMS" in Phil's case, we can say that with high certainty. Anyone here disagree? Probably not, right? Someone going from 3 to 5 grams means the guy has been close to maxed out and is trying to milk everything possible out of the drugs. Sometimes it works and sometimes it actually doesn't. But that first range is still "alot" of steroids, just like LATS said. I've given Nick Walker as an example, what do those that have been around think, is it likely he is doing the first or the second range? How come most everyone who has been around thinks it's most likely over 3 grams? Is it likely he is under or over 10iu of growth? You know what I mean?

I actually doubt anyone thinks they will look like Phil on his dosages. You would have to be at the moron level of intelligence to believe that. Do many think they might be bigger on more drugs? Of course, what's illogical about that?

AND, if drugs aren't why Phil is Phil, and it really isn't for the most part (though they ALLOWED Phil to max out HIS potential), why listen to ANYTHING a champ says made them champions, from training to food? We won't look like Phil if we eat as much protein as he does, we won't look like him copying his training split. So what is there to talk about? Lol.
I actually think there isn't much to talk about that changes much for us, perhaps psychology (in my opinion).

It doesn’t piss me off. I just find it funny.

There are guys on here, including myself who have posted cycles of top pro’s and that have worked with top coaches.

But anything beyond that is just speculation. Even when Milos posted pics of his journals everyone questioned if they were real.

My opinion, Nick is maxed out and likely around 3-4g of gear. HGH is likely what guys are taking a lot more of than they lead on. 15 to 20 units of pharma HGH is a boat load.

The next is insulin. If anyone thinks Samsun has just “hit a growth spurt” or dialed in his diet with Milos… LOL no. I’ve worked with Milos and have a good idea what they’re doing. And no I’m not sharing dosages publicly if anyone ask.

And SEO.. that’s just out of control IMO. Hadi’s recent video… he just doesn’t look good.

I agree- it’s GRAMS. We are all smart enough here to put the math and pieces together. Gear dosages are just the base of it all.

 

[Zarati]

He has so much ego

 

[buck]

Let's say there was a drug that could make you taller. People would accuse every guy over 6'2" of taking it. And if you saw a guy that's 6'8"? Oh he's DEFINITELY taking it.
And yet; here we are in the real world where there is no such drug, and there are (very few) people over 7 feet tall...

Genetic anomalies do exist.

I have been saying that to people for many years. At a height of 5'7 i competed naturally at local shows and got up into the light heavy group after 3 years in a gym. People would ask what drugs i was on and couldn't fathom that i was natural. I always asked them if they thought all tall guys over average height took GH as a kid. My first cycle of transdermal test and tren made it really obvious that i was no longer natural. Everyone can get bigger as i see it. But some can get much bigger with less. I think digestion and assimilation play a big part as well.

 

[nidnoy]

For the generic elite, to be a freak and better than everyone else it doesn’t take a ton of gear I would think. I don’t know because I’m not one of them. But don’t forget everyone on the Olympia stage is a genetic elite, not just Phil and whoever else. So then the competition is a little more even and so of course they are going to have to push the envelope then. There’s a huge difference between someone’s first local show, of course the elite wins on 500mgs of test, and then standing next to other elites, of course they are going to be on the kitchen sink, just like every other guy up there.

 

[juggy38]

I mean even if it’s still 2.5g…..that’s not any less impressive.

How many chunky retarded buddies have you known over the years run 50mg Test/tren/mast ED and look like utter dogshit? I have like 11. That right there is 1050mg.

 

[stackdizzy]

Am in the "who cares" crowd and I don't get upset if you want to speculate on it at all. its your life. with the information of "i took less then everybody else" you really don't have anything to speculate about, that literally tells you nothing besides the fact that Phil is feeding his fragile ego. Plus like someone else posted above even if he did post his cycle few would believe it anyway.

 

[Marvin Martian]

Hopefully nobody is actually getting “pissed off” on EITHER side. It doesn’t bother me in the least when guys say “x” is lying about his usage. I do think it’s pathetic to get upset or hate someone for that. But then again I’ve always felt it pretty silly to really believe in any advertising. So when I saw Greg Kovacs using MuscleTech or EAS (can’t remember which he promoted) - I never once even had it remotely cross my mind that he built his physique using otc supps.
I guess I figured this advertising scam out as a kid in the 70’s when I got my GI Joe set home and opened it to find that the Joes didn’t do ANY of that cool shit the kids playing on the commercial had. They had a fckng full Vietnam style jungle and cool ass caves and shit for the Joes to fight those Hydra - Jesus hating, terroristic Communist wanting world domination sons of bitches!!! Fckn scam I tell ya!

 

[pickapeck]

Some people don't need a lot to grow a lot.
Some people can take a lot without sides.
Some people don't need a lot to grow a lot and can take a lot without sides.

It seems so simple but seems like it escapes people somehow.

 

[VaginaBoob89]

Did he take less than Ronnie Coleman? Didn't think so! Ronnie didn't know about gear until Levrone told him the secret, Phil was never clean in a comp, therefore Ronnie > Phil.

yeah bro. In fact Ronnie was natural his entire career; he just said he wasn't so people would feel less bad. I heard he even injected estrogen to give the other competitors a fighting chance. That's just how good his genetics are, man. There's some guys out there with 0.05cm penises and some guys out there with 18 foot penises, genetic variation bro.

 

[Swifto]

For the generic elite, to be a freak and better than everyone else it doesn’t take a ton of gear I would think. I don’t know because I’m not one of them. But don’t forget everyone on the Olympia stage is a genetic elite, not just Phil and whoever else. So then the competition is a little more even and so of course they are going to have to push the envelope then. There’s a huge difference between someone’s first local show, of course the elite wins on 500mgs of test, and then standing next to other elites, of course they are going to be on the kitchen sink, just like every other guy up there.

You have to remember Phil started winning shows quite early on and then stayed there. If he's winning the Olympia using 1200mg Test in the offseason (among other PEDs), why does he go to 2.5g Test? He doesnt.

The guys who's placing 12th, 8th, 6th, 9th is probably pushing more.

He also 'grew into the show' and likely didnt use a ton in the offseason and pressed the button during prep.

Phil look didnt change dramatically once he was #1. He likely had his formula/stack and then didnt change it for health/longevity.

• 2003 Northern Colorado State, Novice, Light-Heavyweight 1st and overall
• 2003 NPC Colorado State, Light-Heavyweight, 1st
• 2004 NPC Colorado State, Heavyweight, 1st and Overall
• 2005 NPC Junior Nationals, HeavyWeight, 1st and Overall
• 2005 NPC USA Championships, HeavyWeight, 1st and Overall
• 2006 Colorado Pro Championships, 1st
• 2006 New York Pro Championship, 1st
• 2007 Arnold Classic, 5th
• 2008 IFBB Iron Man, 1st
• 2008 Arnold Classic, 2nd
• 2008 Mr. Olympia, 3rd
• 2009 Mr. Olympia, 5th
• 2010 Arnold Classic, 2nd
• 2010 Mr. Olympia, 2nd
• 2011 Mr. Olympia, 1st
• 2011 Sheru Classic, 1st
• 2012 Mr. Olympia, 1st
• 2012 Sheru Classic, 1st
• 2013 Mr. Olympia, 1st
• 2013 Arnold Classic Europe, 1st
• 2014 Mr. Olympia, 1st
• 2015 Mr. Olympia, 1st
• 2016 Mr. Olympia, 1st
• 2017 Mr. Olympia, 1st
• 2018 Mr. Olympia, 2nd
• 2020 Mr. Olympia, 3rd

 

[KillerStack]

It doesn’t piss me off. I just find it funny.

There are guys on here, including myself who have posted cycles of top pro’s and that have worked with top coaches.

But anything beyond that is just speculation. Even when Milos posted pics of his journals everyone questioned if they were real.

My opinion, Nick is maxed out and likely around 3-4g of gear. HGH is likely what guys are taking a lot more of than they lead on. 15 to 20 units of pharma HGH is a boat load.

The next is insulin. If anyone thinks Samsun has just “hit a growth spurt” or dialed in his diet with Milos… LOL no. I’ve worked with Milos and have a good idea what they’re doing. And no I’m not sharing dosages publicly if anyone ask.

And SEO.. that’s just out of control IMO. Hadi’s recent video… he just doesn’t look good.

I agree- it’s GRAMS. We are all smart enough here to put the math and pieces together. Gear dosages are just the base of it all.

Milos actually said the "secret weapon" with Samson for the Arnold was trenbolone lol. Said he started with 100mg a week and peaked at 300mg a week. I don't know if Samson had a bad experience with it earlier but he had supposedly sworn off it until Milos convinced him. Those dosages are so silly they might be true, probably did have some hang-up with the drug. But of course I think the insulin is the main player here, a given.

Regarding GH dosages, I would be curious to know how high some of them had pushed it experimenting. In another thread someone said Cutler did an 18iu Serostim a day and then someone else said it was a vial twice a day. I don't know but I wouldn't bet against him doing two vials at some point. Ronnie too - i'll just say "2003." I think Nick is very familiar with "20iu" but the question is how much north of that he's gone.

But yeah, as you say, we can piece together an approximation, and it's GRAMS in all these cases. Genetics blah blah blah - yes sure but it's still GRAMS.

 

[VaginaBoob89]

I'm still baffled people seem to think that people in high school or university sports are automatically natural. Kids can find molly/coke/meth/fent when they're 14. What makes you think they can't find test, superdrol, tren, dbol etc? He very well may have been on PEDs when playing bball.

 

[Biggerp73]

Hate to bump an old thread like this but I was aware of Phil's claim a few weeks ago to have taken less than everybody but I didn't hear what he actually said until a few minutes ago

He says he did the USAs on 500 test and "a shot of deca" per week. So 700-800mg per week.

That's an example of what he considers to be basically nothing, and a laughably small amount for a competitor.

That says a lot. Most guys who aren't in the know probably think the genetic elites like Phil, Ronnie, Kai, etc, were only using 750mg/week to compete in the Olympia.

Reality is that is what they used before they ever became pro.

I remember a couple months ago reading what Milos described as low dosage for a pro. For any given compound the dosage seemed moderate but he had 3-5 compounds running at a time, and the total mg per week was right about 3 grams.

And thats what Mr. "the pros don't use as much as you think they do" was willing to say publicly about a "low dose" cycle for a pro