Prolactin inhibits dht

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

I found something very interesting upon watching a Solving sexual performance issues from RXmuscle..

start at 5 :20

went onto research it and this appears to have some merit behind it and be true.

Hyperprolactinemia and 5-alpha-reductase activity - PubMed

A number of experimental data indicate that hyperprolactinemia inhibits the activity of 5-alpha-reductase; however, no information is available about the time required for this enzyme to re-activate after prolactinemia has returned to normal values. In the present study, five normal caucasian...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[need4tren]

I’ll say it again dave really knows his shit

 

[NovaPharma]

Agreed Dave has some good knowledge!

 

[chopsuey]

I've seen this myself on bloodwork. When I was trialing testosterone cream on scrotum for TRT(although a bit higher dose than traditional trt) (which increases DHT dramatically) my prolactin came back around 1.1 and I wasn't using an AI or anti prolactin drug at the time.

 

[IronLion2]

Inb4 everyone tanks their prolactin for even worse sexual function, no IGF, and no energy.

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

I've seen this myself on bloodwork. When I was trialing testosterone cream on scrotum for TRT(although a bit higher dose than traditional trt) (which increases DHT dramatically) my prolactin came back around 1.1 and I wasn't using an AI or anti prolactin drug at the time.

??? The study argues the reverse, i.e. that prolactin lowers DHT, not the other way around.

 

[chopsuey]

??? The study argues the reverse, i.e. that prolactin lowers DHT, not the other way around.

Yes, high prolactin lowers DHT, but from my understanding the opposite is true.

Taking in exo DHT or forcing your DHT levels high lowers prolactin. Again from my understanding, I could be wrong, but when my doc explained it there's alot more forced conversion in scrotum to DHT due to the receptors there? So hence the forced DHT levels lowers prolactin.

Pretty sure I read a few studies on DHT lowering prolactin too, I'll see if I can dig them up.

Maybe I should of been more specific with my original post but I was just trying to say instead of taking caber/prami if prolactin isn't very high, elevating DHT by whichever mean could be another otpion.

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

Yes, high prolactin lowers DHT, but from my understanding the opposite is true.

Taking in exo DHT or forcing your DHT levels high lowers prolactin. Again from my understanding, I could be wrong, but when my doc explained it there's alot more forced conversion in scrotum to DHT due to the receptors there? So hence the forced DHT levels lowers prolactin.

Pretty sure I read a few studies on DHT lowering prolactin too, I'll see if I can dig them up.

Maybe I should of been more specific with my original post but I was just trying to say instead of taking caber/prami if prolactin isn't very high, elevating DHT by whichever mean could be another otpion.

Fair enough, but you said "I've seen this myself on bloodwork", when in fact you saw the reverse. DHT and some of its derivatives lowering Prolactin is already well known (the opposite was not and hence this thread). The MOA there is likely that DHT lowers estrogen levels or estrogen signalling in tissues. Lowering Estrogen in turn tends to decrease Prolactin levels

 

[chopsuey]

Fair enough, but you said "I've seen this myself on bloodwork", when in fact you saw the reverse. DHT and some of its derivatives lowering Prolactin is already well known (the opposite was not and hence this thread). The MOA there is likely that DHT lowers estrogen levels or estrogen signalling in tissues. Lowering Estrogen in turn tends to decrease Prolactin levels

Yes, your right, I should of worded my original post differently.

Just thought it might be interesting and relevant. My estro was around 60pg/ml on the sensitive test, not that high but still high enough I was surprised with the low prolactin number. I guess that could be the signaling part you mentioned, that's a bit over my head.

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

Inb4 everyone tanks their prolactin for even worse sexual function, no IGF, and no energy.

Could you provide references for the claim that physiological levels of Prolactin in men are necessary for sexual function and IGF-1 production?

 

[Crazy_jay]

Could you provide references for the claim that physiological levels of Prolactin in men are necessary for sexual function and IGF-1 production?

Not 100% conclusive but https://www.livescience.com/41322-low-prolactin-men-sexual-impairment.html

 

[IronLion2]

Could you provide references for the claim that physiological levels of Prolactin in men are necessary for sexual function and IGF-1 production?

Who said anything about physiological levels? I said don't tank your hormones

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

Who said anything about physiological levels? I said don't tank your hormones

Tanked hormone levels = non-physiological?!

 

[thewizkid]

Inb4 everyone tanks their prolactin for even worse sexual function, no IGF, and no energy.

i think you have it reversed, high prolactin = worse sexual function, no igf-1 and no energy

Prolactin Level Test: Purpose, Procedure, and Results

Prolactin (also called PRL or lactogenic hormone) is a hormone produced by the pituitary gland in the brain. It plays an important role in reproductive health.

www.healthline.com

Men
Men may need the test if they display symptoms of prolactinoma. Symptoms of prolactinoma in men include:

• unexplained headaches
• visual impairment
• reduced sex drive or fertility problems
• erectile dysfunction
• abnormal lack of body and facial hair

Abstract
OBJECTIVE:
Hyperprolactinemia is common in acromegaly and in these patients, insulin-like growth factor (IGF)-1 level may decrease with dopamine agonist. We report a series of patients with prolactinoma and a paradoxical increase of IGF-1 levels during cabergoline treatment.

IGF-1 levels may increase paradoxically with dopamine agonist treatment for prolactinomas - PubMed

IGF-1 levels may increase to clinically significant levels during cabergoline treatment for PRL-adenoma. We suggest IGF-1 monitoring in all patients treated with dopamine agonists and not only in those presenting symptoms of acromegaly.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Not 100% conclusive but https://www.livescience.com/41322-low-prolactin-men-sexual-impairment.html

could you post the study, the article doesn't have it sourced

 

[IronLion2]

Tanked hormone levels = non-physiological?!

I'd be willing to believe someone who used a DA to lower prolactin to the lower end of the range could see issue. I'm speaking out of annecdotal evidence.

Low PRL in men

As for the IGF, there's animal studies showing plenty of connection between PRL and IGF binding proteins.

I typically won't back down from the idea casual AAS users should be manipulating the least amount of hormones possible for Max results. As I'm sure everyone already knows 9/10 users will find PRL is in range as long as estrogen is controlled.

 

[Crazy_jay]

i think you have it reversed, high prolactin = worse sexual function, no igf-1 and no energy

Prolactin Level Test: Purpose, Procedure, and Results

Prolactin (also called PRL or lactogenic hormone) is a hormone produced by the pituitary gland in the brain. It plays an important role in reproductive health.

www.healthline.com

IGF-1 levels may increase paradoxically with dopamine agonist treatment for prolactinomas - PubMed

IGF-1 levels may increase to clinically significant levels during cabergoline treatment for PRL-adenoma. We suggest IGF-1 monitoring in all patients treated with dopamine agonists and not only in those presenting symptoms of acromegaly.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

could you post the study, the article doesn't have it sourced

Unfortunately these studies have only been done on older men...

This is the one the article references:

Low prolactin is associated with sexual dysfunction and psychological or metabolic disturbances in middle-aged and elderly men: the European Male Aging Study (EMAS) - PubMed

Low PRL is related to several metabolic, psychological, and sexual unhealthy characteristics in European men. Checking PRL might be useful to stratify men for cardiovascular risk and to encourage appropriate lifestyle changes.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Here's another suggesting ed and metabolic issues:

Hypoprolactinemia: a new clinical syndrome in patients with sexual dysfunction - PubMed

Our findings demonstrate that, in subjects consulting for sexual dysfunction, PRL in the lowest quartile levels are associated with MetS and arteriogenic ED, as well as with PE and anxiety symptoms. Further studies are advisable in order to confirm our preliminary results in different populations.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[chopsuey]

This is one thing I've never been able to get a straight answer...(regarding negative effects of lowering prolactin too low, is it like estrogen IE some is needed?)

Cabergoline & pramipexole common side effect is hyper sexuality...and with the doses they're using prolactin is usually at 0 or near.

Most of the studies I've seen for caber say's it improves sexual function and erectile dysfunction, and again at doses used prolactin is usually completely suppressed.

But these studies above show the opposite...

 

[thewizkid]

Unfortunately these studies have only been done on older men...

This is the one the article references:

Low prolactin is associated with sexual dysfunction and psychological or metabolic disturbances in middle-aged and elderly men: the European Male Aging Study (EMAS) - PubMed

Low PRL is related to several metabolic, psychological, and sexual unhealthy characteristics in European men. Checking PRL might be useful to stratify men for cardiovascular risk and to encourage appropriate lifestyle changes.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Here's another suggesting ed and metabolic issues:

Hypoprolactinemia: a new clinical syndrome in patients with sexual dysfunction - PubMed

Our findings demonstrate that, in subjects consulting for sexual dysfunction, PRL in the lowest quartile levels are associated with MetS and arteriogenic ED, as well as with PE and anxiety symptoms. Further studies are advisable in order to confirm our preliminary results in different populations.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

both of those studies just looked at prolactin and how low prolactin was associated with ED, which has no relevance to anyone using hormones

it’s hard to explain but I’ll try to give and example

low testosterone levels in hypogonadal men was associated with a bunch of Heath issues ,diabeties, High cholesterol, obesity, etc so one could assume it is actually testosterone that is the cause
However low testosterone also means low estrogen
So they did an actual study on men and animals and Suppressed natural hormones while adding either estrogen or testosterone with an aromatase inhibitor.
That way they could actually see what was the CAUSE, which is where causation comes from. The cause was actually declining estrogen in many of the issues related to hypogonadal men.
This is why you always hear correlation, doesn’t mean causation.

It is like if the power went out on a Sunday, so you blamed the power outage on people going to church since people also go to church on Sunday.
well maybe it could have been because of people going to church but chances are there’s an actual reason that caused it

so the studies showing people with elevated prolactin getting better from taking a medication that supresses prolactin is valid since it is a direct causation of lowering prolactin

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

This is one thing I've never been able to get a straight answer...(regarding negative effects of lowering prolactin too low, is it like estrogen IE some is needed?)

Cabergoline & pramipexole common side effect is hyper sexuality...and with the doses they're using prolactin is usually at 0 or near.

Most of the studies I've seen for caber say's it improves sexual function and erectile dysfunction, and again at doses used prolactin is usually completely suppressed.

But these studies above show the opposite...

As thewizkid correctly pointed out above, an association does not imply a causal relationship. The two studies merely noted that among those who presented with sexual dysfunction, the lower the prolactin levels, the higher metabolic and erectile dysfunction. But that does not mean that the low prolactin is what's causing the issue. Likely, it is the case that in those with low prolactin, other factors are also off, and that those are what's causing the issues. Indeed, neither study controlled for estrogen levels (which are in turn positively correlated with prolactin levels), which may be what caused the issue.

As it stands, there is no convincing evidence to suggest that below-normal Prolactin causes any issues in men. However, the medications that are used to lower prolactin levels do cause unwanted side effects. Thus, the recommendation is to only use dopamine agonists as a last resort. Usually, hyperprolactinemia in bodybuilders can be addressed by controlling estrogen levels. Furthermore, progestagenic AAS like Nandrolone do not necessarily increase prolactin levels, so that dopamine agonists should not be taken preventatively.

 

[thewizkid]

I'd be willing to believe someone who used a DA to lower prolactin to the lower end of the range could see issue. I'm speaking out of annecdotal evidence.

Low PRL in men

As for the IGF, there's animal studies showing plenty of connection between PRL and IGF binding proteins.

I typically won't back down from the idea casual AAS users should be manipulating the least amount of hormones possible for Max results. As I'm sure everyone already knows 9/10 users will find PRL is in range as long as estrogen is controlled.

i have to ask what is your proof for this? That estrogen is the cause for increased prolactin during use of tren?

I've seen many posts with people with low-normal estrogen levels on tren but high prolactin
as well as myself

high prolactin doesn't just cause ED, it also is involved with insulin sensitivity and fat metabolism. Not the best thing to have if bodybuilding is your goal

Metabolic abnormalities in patients with prolactinoma: response to treatment with cabergoline - Diabetology & Metabolic Syndrome

Background Hyperprolactinemia has been associated with changes in body composition and metabolic abnormalities. Normalization of prolactin (PRL) with dopamine agonists has been found to reverse these abnormalities. This study was designed to assess the anthropometric and metabolic alterations...

dmsjournal.biomedcentral.com

Patients with prolactinoma had increased level of fasting plasma glucose (P < .001), LDL-cholesterol (P = .001) and triglycerides (TG) (P = .009) as compared to age, gender and BMI matched healthy controls. There was a significant decrease of body weight at 3 months (P = .029), with a further decline at 6 months (P < .001) of cabergoline therapy. In addition, there was a significant decrement of BMI (P < .001), waist circumference (P = .003), waist-hip ratio (P = .03) and total body fat (P = .003) at 6 months of cabergoline treatment. A significant decline in plasma glucose (P < .001), total cholesterol (P = .009), LDL-cholesterol (P < .001) and TG (P < .001) was seen after 6 months of cabergoline treatment.