Proper Way To Perform Back/Lat Poses??? Need some pointers/Tip's

[Mr.Loony]

Please excuse me if this is a dumb question, but I needed a few tips on how to properly execute a few back shot's.

Front and Rear Lat Spread:

Ok, you know when you go to do a front and rear lat spread, do you actually "flex" the lats or just "flare" them?

For instance, lets say I put my hands on my hips and go to spread my lats. You know how when you spread, they automatically come out? Ok, at this point, to flex them or try to push/flare them out? What I'm saying is, since they bascially alredy come out, do you try to "push" and "flare" them out even further?? Or flex them?

Ok, second question,

Front and Rear Double Bicep's:

Same thing as the first question. When you hold your arms up, your lats automatically come out. So at this point do you try to flex and squeeze them in, or do you push out the flare that they naturally go into?

Lately I've been gaining more control of my back muscles through training. I've recently figured out a few things I was doing wrong during my pulling and rowing movements. It was a simple arm/elbow shoulder rotation problem. The little thing I did fixed my problem tremendously. Now I get the most mind blowing pumps in my lats. Something I've never experienced before. Talk about sore the day's after as well....man, let me tell you. I'm loving it though. But, I'm still having a few problems here and there with the poses. I'm thinking once I get those down, I will probably be able to control my back even more through training.

So if you guys could help me out and give me a few pointer's it would be much appreciated. I may or may not have described my question's right, I did the best I could, lol. So, if something sounds crazy, or your not understanding something, let me know and I'll try to explain it better.

Thanks guys,
Jay

 

[stang4life]

Please excuse me if this is a dumb question, but I needed a few tips on how to properly execute a few back shot's.

Front and Rear Lat Spread:

Ok, you know when you go to do a front and rear lat spread, do you actually "flex" the lats or just "flare" them?

For instance, lets say I put my hands on my hips and go to spread my lats. You know how when you spread, they automatically come out? Ok, at this point, to flex them or try to push/flare them out? What I'm saying is, since they bascially alredy come out, do you try to "push" and "flare" them out even further?? Or flex them?

Ok, second question,

Front and Rear Double Bicep's:

Same thing as the first question. When you hold your arms up, your lats automatically come out. So at this point do you try to flex and squeeze them in, or do you push out the flare that they naturally go into?

Lately I've been gaining more control of my back muscles through training. I've recently figured out a few things I was doing wrong during my pulling and rowing movements. It was a simple arm/elbow shoulder rotation problem. The little thing I did fixed my problem tremendously. Now I get the most mind blowing pumps in my lats. Something I've never experienced before. Talk about sore the day's after as well....man, let me tell you. I'm loving it though. But, I'm still having a few problems here and there with the poses. I'm thinking once I get those down, I will probably be able to control my back even more through training.

So if you guys could help me out and give me a few pointer's it would be much appreciated. I may or may not have described my question's right, I did the best I could, lol. So, if something sounds crazy, or your not understanding something, let me know and I'll try to explain it better.

Thanks guys,
Jay

Im curious what you did/fixed?

 

[Mr.Loony]

When I would do pulldown's, I would pull the bar down by rotating at my shoulder's. Have you ever seen people do close grip underhand pullup's? You know how they tend to rotate their arms down close to their sides? Well, I was rotating at the shoulder joint. It's really hard to explain. But it doesn't look any different than performing them the right way. I think alot of trainee's do this and their trainer's don't catch it. Least mine didn't.

But like I was saying, I was doing this with both pulldown's and rows. When I would rotate at my shoulder's, it virtually left my rear delt's out all together. But the only thing that would ever get stressed would be my bi's and forearms. They were supporting all the weight.

What I did to fix it:

Ok, you know how you do a bench press? Your arms go straight up from your shoulder's? Ok, pulldowns and row's are the EXACT same, just in reverse.

Ok, lets look at Rear db laterals for example. Ok, lets say you rock the db's back, elbows not in line with your shoulders, arms about 45 degree angles. You know how this is easy to do? Then you just rock the db's back? Ok, but this doesn't train your rear delt's. This will hit your rear delt's, but activate's your lats as well. Think of the movement as like an upside down pullover motion. Ok, this is how I was doing my pulldowns and pullovers, but of course still pulling with my arms to. The way I am talking about doing the db bent laterals, is the way Coleman does them. Watch a video of Coleman doing bent over db laterals. Notice how he just rotates at the shoulder? That is how I was doing my back exercises.

Ok, now lets look at DB bent lateral raises done right. You bend over and pull the dbs up in line with your shoulders. Ok, but what if instead of just moving your arms, you rowed them db's up in that position by bending your arms. So instead of a db bent lateral raise, think of what you would do if you did a bent over lateral row, pulling the db's up with your arms squeezing your rear delts and traps and back muscles together at the top.

Ok, when doing that, notice how it's like a reverse db bench press? Ok, it's the same thing for row's, you just keep your arms down further, like in the 45 degree angle. Like you normally do rows. But instead, pull back like you would with a bent lateral row. The difference is your arms aren't in line with your shoulders. You still want to try and crush your rear delts and traps together, but with your arms at a 45 degree angle to your sides.

I may or may not have explained this perfectly, I did the best I could. But this is what helped me. I was basically "rolling" back and forth at the shoulders. When I should have been pulling and crushing them back. I did this to try to minimize rear delt invovlement, but I have learned that it's best to let them be involved. This way you get a complete back. I don't care what anyone says, if your rowing 315 or more, your rear delts are not going to take over that load, only your lats can if your body is in the right position. So, I have learned to use my rear delt's to a degree when back training. For years I tried way to hard to isolate the lats. I have learned that nothing is 100% isolateable and since I have quit worrying about this so much my training has gotten a lot better. This problem I had with trying to Over Isolate, caused me to move my arms and body around in all sorts of weird positions, without me realizing it at times just for the sake of isolating. That caused me to mess up in my training. And once you get used to performing and exercise a certain way for so long, its hard to break that habit.

I learned how to properly train my back from watching countless hours of BFTO tapes, and watching the pro's form on their back exercises. This is what helped me more than anything.

I hope you can understand what I'm saying, lol. It is a little hard for me to explain. I could show you much better in person what I was doing. Even though, it doesn't really look that much different. That is why my training partners and past trainers never caught what I was doing wrong. I would always tell them, I can't feel my lats. They would say my form was perfect, and just keep trying, it would eventually come. Nope, it never would have came. My arms and forearms just kept getting bigger. So, its hard to notice this if your watching someone, unless you know what your truly looking for.

 

[Mr.Loony]

Here's a possible better explanation.

Ok, lets say you hold you arm up parallel to the floor. Now, you can pull it straight back into a until your elbow is 90 degrees. Notice how you pulled back with your delt? Ok, now just drop your arm to 45 degrees and hold it straight out. Now, pull back with your elbow flared at the delt.

Now there is two ways you can get your arm back. You can pull it back as described above, or you can rock it back. By "pulling" it back, is what gets me better contractions instead of "rocking" it back.

Hope that helps you understand a little better. By pulling back in this manner, you can also get your elbows behind your body better as well, which results in a better lat contraction, from armpit to waist, middle, and outer. Everything contracts like it should.

 

[nartic]

When I would do pulldown's, I would pull the bar down by rotating at my shoulder's. Have you ever seen people do close grip underhand pullup's? You know how they tend to rotate their arms down close to their sides? Well, I was rotating at the shoulder joint. It's really hard to explain. But it doesn't look any different than performing them the right way. I think alot of trainee's do this and their trainer's don't catch it. Least mine didn't.

But like I was saying, I was doing this with both pulldown's and rows. When I would rotate at my shoulder's, it virtually left my rear delt's out all together. But the only thing that would ever get stressed would be my bi's and forearms. They were supporting all the weight.

What I did to fix it:

Ok, you know how you do a bench press? Your arms go straight up from your shoulder's? Ok, pulldowns and row's are the EXACT same, just in reverse.

Ok, lets look at Rear db laterals for example. Ok, lets say you rock the db's back, elbows not in line with your shoulders, arms about 45 degree angles. You know how this is easy to do? Then you just rock the db's back? Ok, but this doesn't train your rear delt's. This will hit your rear delt's, but activate's your lats as well. Think of the movement as like an upside down pullover motion. Ok, this is how I was doing my pulldowns and pullovers, but of course still pulling with my arms to. The way I am talking about doing the db bent laterals, is the way Coleman does them. Watch a video of Coleman doing bent over db laterals. Notice how he just rotates at the shoulder? That is how I was doing my back exercises.

Ok, now lets look at DB bent lateral raises done right. You bend over and pull the dbs up in line with your shoulders. Ok, but what if instead of just moving your arms, you rowed them db's up in that position by bending your arms. So instead of a db bent lateral raise, think of what you would do if you did a bent over lateral row, pulling the db's up with your arms squeezing your rear delts and traps and back muscles together at the top.

Ok, when doing that, notice how it's like a reverse db bench press? Ok, it's the same thing for row's, you just keep your arms down further, like in the 45 degree angle. Like you normally do rows. But instead, pull back like you would with a bent lateral row. The difference is your arms aren't in line with your shoulders. You still want to try and crush your rear delts and traps together, but with your arms at a 45 degree angle to your sides.

I may or may not have explained this perfectly, I did the best I could. But this is what helped me. I was basically "rolling" back and forth at the shoulders. When I should have been pulling and crushing them back. I did this to try to minimize rear delt invovlement, but I have learned that it's best to let them be involved. This way you get a complete back. I don't care what anyone says, if your rowing 315 or more, your rear delts are not going to take over that load, only your lats can if your body is in the right position. So, I have learned to use my rear delt's to a degree when back training. For years I tried way to hard to isolate the lats. I have learned that nothing is 100% isolateable and since I have quit worrying about this so much my training has gotten a lot better. This problem I had with trying to Over Isolate, caused me to move my arms and body around in all sorts of weird positions, without me realizing it at times just for the sake of isolating. That caused me to mess up in my training. And once you get used to performing and exercise a certain way for so long, its hard to break that habit.

I learned how to properly train my back from watching countless hours of BFTO tapes, and watching the pro's form on their back exercises. This is what helped me more than anything.

I hope you can understand what I'm saying, lol. It is a little hard for me to explain. I could show you much better in person what I was doing. Even though, it doesn't really look that much different. That is why my training partners and past trainers never caught what I was doing wrong. I would always tell them, I can't feel my lats. They would say my form was perfect, and just keep trying, it would eventually come. Nope, it never would have came. My arms and forearms just kept getting bigger. So, its hard to notice this if your watching someone, unless you know what your truly looking for.

Great info thanks bro.