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Question about bloodwork

Cv215

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So i very recently came off cycle and started having heart palpitations. Saw my primary and had an EKG, which she said came back normal. My blood pressure was pretty high so she prescribed me lisinopryl and had me do bloodwork that day.

She also had me schedule with a cardiologist. I was able to see a cardiologist two days later. He did another EKG. He put a "CAM" on my chest that i wear for 14 days. I also have an Echo two days from now.

I was mainly curious about my bloodwork because i havent donated blood in a while. I went into the primary yesterday to get the results. She said they were all within normal ranges and if i wanted a copy the front desk would print it out when i left.

So i get a copy and go sit in the car and look at it and no they're not all within range.

The bloodwork is through Quest so i dont remember the reference ranges. (I left the papers in my gfs car last night so don't have it on me at the moment but I remember the numbers)
My RBC was 52 (i think the range went up to 48), my hemoglobin was 18.6 (which i believe might be past the limit for me being allowed to donate.) Hematocrit was 56 (the range ended at 50).
These were all marked as have high and she acted like it was no big deal.

Ill say, ive been using hormones for about 5-6 years. In past years there were points when i was getting ready for a meet that i was usually a dick load of gear and ive never ever had my levels get that high.

In all my bloodwork those levels are abnormally high for me personally so i really wonder if they could be contributing to the heart palpitations.

I just want to make sure I'm not mistaken. Are these numbers high and warrant donation or phlebotomy or should i just let it go? Either way my cardiologist will see the bloodwork in a couple days.

I'm just frankly a little pissed that i go in to the doctor for heart issues and the doc acts like these numbers are completely normal. In just wondering if they could be a factor.
 

maldorf

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Hemoglobin is kinda high. That should be down to around 16 to 17 max id say. I have a clotting disorder, so my view is more cautious. My hematologist wants mine down around 15. See what the cardiologist says. Either way, doing a donation won't hurt when it's that high.

I would not go back on cycle until that number gets down. I think you need a greater buffer, since hemoglobin will go up even more when you get back on. I found that when I cruised on 250 mg/week, my hemoglobin wouldn't go down at all. It simply maintained rather than go up like when on cycle. Are you cruising now?
 

maldorf

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Doctors don't worry about hemoglobin being too low unless it gets down around 10, seems crazy. Mine got down to 11 when I had a bleed and they didn't give me a transfusion. I have heart failure too. I felt ok, but wasn't feeling good.

Mine dropped from 16 down to 11.
 

Cv215

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Hemoglobin is kinda high. That should be down to around 16 to 17 max id say. I have a clotting disorder, so my view is more cautious. My hematologist wants mine down around 15. See what the cardiologist says. Either way, doing a donation won't hurt when it's that high.

I would not go back on cycle until that number gets down. I think you need a greater buffer, since hemoglobin will go up even more when you get back on. I found that when I cruised on 250 mg/week, my hemoglobin wouldn't go down at all. It simply maintained rather than go up like when on cycle. Are you cruising now?

Yes, I came off cycle, but instead of going back to trt i think im going to give it four weeks of no injections at all before i start my trt dose back up. Then when i start trt back up in going to see if i can get away with 100mgs/week, which I'm sure I'll be fine with. I'm just still having these heart palpitations pretty frequently and theyre scary as fuck when you get a bunch back to back.

Figures when i had both of the EKG's done, i wasnt having palpitations so it apparently didn't pick those up.
 

Cv215

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Should I try to donate whole blood or double red blood cells?
 

maldorf

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Should I try to donate whole blood or double red blood cells?
I've never done double red. You could do either. I think double red takes longer to do. But, If you do double red then you won't need to do it for a longer period of time. Maybe someone that has done double can say.

Now I get a phlebotomy as often as 4x a year. Lately seems to be just 3x. Mine is therapeutic a d gets thrown away.
 

Kaladryn

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My guess is that your heart is most likely stressed out from chronically high BP, get on that cardio, daily.

edit: I'd also get a calcium score low radiation CT scan, they can be found for around $100
 

Kaladryn

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My guess is that your heart is most likely stressed out from chronically high BP, get on that cardio, daily.

edit: I'd also get a calcium score low radiation CT scan, they can be found for around $100
Also, I'm not suggesting that a 56 is crit is ok, you need to get that down for sure.
 

Cv215

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My guess is that your heart is most likely stressed out from chronically high BP, get on that cardio, daily.

edit: I'd also get a calcium score low radiation CT scan, they can be found for around $100

Thanks bro, yah as of a few weeks ago I started doing cardiovascular the end of all my workouts. Honestly it's literally been years since I've done cardio consistently.
Just doing 30 minutes on the treadmill at 15% elevation and 2-2.5 mph. Going to slowly work up from that as i get a little better conditioning.
 

Kaladryn

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Thanks bro, yah as of a few weeks ago I started doing cardiovascular the end of all my workouts. Honestly it's literally been years since I've done cardio consistently.
Just doing 30 minutes on the treadmill at 15% elevation and 2-2.5 mph. Going to slowly work up from that as i get a little better conditioning.
That's a good idea, keep well hydrated also, when I cruise at 10mg/day, my crit goes down dramatically within a couple months, but I'd donate whole blood (always donate whole blood) asap if I was in your shoes. Makes sure you are hydrated when you go in so they won't refuse to draw.
 

maldorf

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Yes, being well hydrated could raise it a point i think.
 

gotgame

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Its already been covered but since you PM'd me asking to comment i will.

Id get that HCT down. I dont like it that high. The guys commenting on this thread are good when it comes to health recommendations and quite reasonable and listen to there advice. You will see other threads where people will go out of there way trying to justifiy why a HCT that high is ok just so they can keep doing AAS high doses.

Id stay off gear a bit and let the HCT come down. Depending on your blood type and where you live in the country you can consider doing a double red ( aka powerred) donation. I prefer to donate like that as you get your plasma back and can hit the gym later and not feel dead. That will drop your HCT about 2-3pts.

I dont believe you mentioned your age.


It sounds like a quick run of PVCs but the holter will detect that and you will know more.
 

Kaladryn

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Its already been covered but since you PM'd me asking to comment i will.

Id get that HCT down. I dont like it that high. The guys commenting on this thread are good when it comes to health recommendations and quite reasonable and listen to there advice. You will see other threads where people will go out of there way trying to justifiy why a HCT that high is ok just so they can keep doing AAS high doses.

Id stay off gear a bit and let the HCT come down. Depending on your blood type and where you live in the country you can consider doing a double red ( aka powerred) donation. I prefer to donate like that as you get your plasma back and can hit the gym later and not feel dead. That will drop your HCT about 2-3pts.

I dont believe you mentioned your age.


It sounds like a quick run of PVCs but the holter will detect that and you will know more.
As a bodybuilder or anyone doing phlebotomy for health purposes, you definitely don't want to do double reds, they put the platelets back, which increases your platelet even more than whole blood donation (which also temporarily increases platelets btw). This is not just my opinion that the opinion of several doctors I have known for decades. I have been preaching this for a decade on here as well.
 

Cv215

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Its already been covered but since you PM'd me asking to comment i will.

Id get that HCT down. I dont like it that high. The guys commenting on this thread are good when it comes to health recommendations and quite reasonable and listen to there advice. You will see other threads where people will go out of there way trying to justifiy why a HCT that high is ok just so they can keep doing AAS high doses.

Id stay off gear a bit and let the HCT come down. Depending on your blood type and where you live in the country you can consider doing a double red ( aka powerred) donation. I prefer to donate like that as you get your plasma back and can hit the gym later and not feel dead. That will drop your HCT about 2-3pts.

I dont believe you mentioned your age.


It sounds like a quick run of PVCs but the holter will detect that and you will know more.

Thanks for your reply. I'm 34 years old. Everything else on the bloodwork was in pretty good shape. My hdl was still a little low at 32, and my ldl was slightly high at 120. But ive only been off cycle completely for maybe 2 weeks so those should improve.

Im definitely staying off for a while. I'm pretty worried about my heart but hope it isnt anything thats too big of a deal. Hopefully when blood pressure normalizes and hematocrit come down ill start to feel better. I definitely dont feel great and that combined with all the palpitations has me nervous as hell. I have the echo tomorrow morning and my plan is to go donate later in the afternoon.
 

gotgame

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As a bodybuilder or anyone doing phlebotomy for health purposes, you definitely don't want to do double reds, they put the platelets back, which increases your platelet even more than whole blood donation (which also temporarily increases platelets btw). This is not just my opinion that the opinion of several doctors I have known for decades. I have been preaching this for a decade on here as well.

Yes you get your platelets back and it may increase them however Cv215 didnt mention that his platelets were out of range. His HCT is high enough that a double red donation this time will bring it down more quickly and hopefully stabilize at a more normal range for future whole blood donations or powerred based on his future labs. He also mentioned that he will be going on a legit 100mg TRT dose which is much less likely to cause issues then bodybuilders using supra doses.

Some guys on high AAS doses who do a double red could see abnormal high platelet counts overtime however all guys should be checking there labs anyway. If ones HCT is significantly more elevated then there platelets then one has to decide which would you like to bring down more.

if on your labs your platelets are persistently elevated and HCT is only slightly elevate then whole blood is a better option for guys on legit TRT doses. If you arent checking labs then whole blood is usually a better option for AAS users but guys should be checking labs

I personally like double red as my platelets dont move outside normal range but my HCT starts to push the limits at time on 200mg week TRT.

Physicians often make recommedations based on there patient population. For the patients ive seen for guys on AAS taking large doses its often more beneficial to do a whole blood donation every 3 months then a double red every 4 but not everyone. For guys on TRT doses who often have less signficant elevation most can donate a lot less frequently, if at all, and can use either power red or whole blood. With power red guys will usually feel fine after.
 

Cv215

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Yes you get your platelets back and it may increase them however Cv215 didnt mention that his platelets were out of range. His HCT is high enough that a double red donation this time will bring it down more quickly and hopefully stabilize at a more normal range for future whole blood donations or powerred based on his future labs. He also mentioned that he will be going on a legit 100mg TRT dose which is much less likely to cause issues then bodybuilders using supra doses.

Some guys on high AAS doses who do a double red could see abnormal high platelet counts overtime however all guys should be checking there labs anyway. If ones HCT is significantly more elevated then there platelets then one has to decide which would you like to bring down more.

if on your labs your platelets are persistently elevated and HCT is only slightly elevate then whole blood is a better option for guys on legit TRT doses. If you arent checking labs then whole blood is usually a better option for AAS users but guys should be checking labs

I personally like double red as my platelets dont move outside normal range but my HCT starts to push the limits at time on 200mg week TRT.

Physicians often make recommedations based on there patient population. For the patients ive seen for guys on AAS taking large doses its often more beneficial to do a whole blood donation every 3 months then a double red every 4 but not everyone. For guys on TRT doses who often have less signficant elevation most can donate a lot less frequently, if at all, and can use either power red or whole blood. With power red guys will usually feel fine after.
Platelets were close to being right in the middle of the reference range. I think 288 was the number.

And thank you for all of this info. Thanks to Kaladryn as well.
 

Kaladryn

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Yes you get your platelets back and it may increase them however Cv215 didnt mention that his platelets were out of range. His HCT is high enough that a double red donation this time will bring it down more quickly and hopefully stabilize at a more normal range for future whole blood donations or powerred based on his future labs. He also mentioned that he will be going on a legit 100mg TRT dose which is much less likely to cause issues then bodybuilders using supra doses.

Some guys on high AAS doses who do a double red could see abnormal high platelet counts overtime however all guys should be checking there labs anyway. If ones HCT is significantly more elevated then there platelets then one has to decide which would you like to bring down more.

if on your labs your platelets are persistently elevated and HCT is only slightly elevate then whole blood is a better option for guys on legit TRT doses. If you arent checking labs then whole blood is usually a better option for AAS users but guys should be checking labs

I personally like double red as my platelets dont move outside normal range but my HCT starts to push the limits at time on 200mg week TRT.

Physicians often make recommedations based on there patient population. For the patients ive seen for guys on AAS taking large doses its often more beneficial to do a whole blood donation every 3 months then a double red every 4 but not everyone. For guys on TRT doses who often have less signficant elevation most can donate a lot less frequently, if at all, and can use either power red or whole blood. With power red guys will usually feel fine after.
It's literally common knowledge that people should do whole blood and not double reds, the goal is to avoid clots, platelets are what make blood sticky.
 

gotgame

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Kaladyrn,

Lets keep it a respectful discussion. The "literally common knowledge " part is incorrect and those who think that need to read more up on that area. Platelets ofcourse do play a role particularly if elevated

Yes platelets play significant role in vte which is what im assuming u are mostly concerned about although there are other issues with a high hct.

Elevatee hct is one of the primary factor wity blood viscosity. This is simply fluid dynamics of vte formation. Then u get the secondary effects of high hct on platelets (even when platelets are in range) such as pushing platelets toward vessel wallls. The fluid dynamics of high hct create a relative velocity grad most pronounced in slow flow areas.

Then u also get hct induced thrombin generation as well as hct induced platelets adp production.

In addition to things like vte hct has ben been shown to be associated with cad through different mechanisms.

I am not saying platelets dont play a significant role... they certainly do especially when elevated and numerous times ive suggested guys on aas consider at a min low dose asa to help mitigate some of those effects. it would be inaccurate in many ways though to imply its only platelets and not hct having those effects.
 

muscle96ss

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Yes, I came off cycle, but instead of going back to trt i think im going to give it four weeks of no injections at all before i start my trt dose back up. Then when i start trt back up in going to see if i can get away with 100mgs/week, which I'm sure I'll be fine with. I'm just still having these heart palpitations pretty frequently and theyre scary as fuck when you get a bunch back to back.

Figures when i had both of the EKG's done, i wasnt having palpitations so it apparently didn't pick those up.

When you go back on TRT, you might want to do daily subq injections. I don't know if it is because the test levels are more stable but I know quite a few people, myself included, where it seems to keep my hemoglobin and HCT much lower than every 5 day IM injections I was doing.
 

Cv215

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When you go back on TRT, you might want to do daily subq injections. I don't know if it is because the test levels are more stable but I know quite a few people, myself included, where it seems to keep my hemoglobin and HCT much lower than every 5 day IM injections I was doing.
Ok, thanks I've considered trying this for a while. I've followed Emerics thread for a while. Now is probably a good time to start.
 

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