Question

[PHIL HERNON]

1. Has anyone ever gotten a new max.........then was unable to even hit that max again for a LONG time? They hit that max without ever lifting that much weight before.............in essence the lighter weight they lifted before got them THERE...........now, since they got THERE, they cant get back?

Think about this....it is leading someplace........

 

[jm425]

Yes. I've hit 495 max on the bench once and could never seem to do it again.

 

[RINO]

Yep.
Now I'm wondering why.

 

[JCLadson]

I will let you know on December 5th.

 

[Ness]

YES....here is my explanation:

.

 

[B~RAD]

that'd suck. hasn't happened to me yet though

 

[robot]

No but I regularily hit new maxes when I take have to take a week or more off.

 

[1love]

No, most of the time it's a mental block for me. But once I've hit the max or improve I mentally know I can do it and haven't had the experience of never hitting it again. There have been times where my workout drained me so much that I wasn't able to lift the same amount of weight on a particular day, but refreshed I always managed to get it again.

 

[Phidias]

in essence the lighter weight they lifted before got them THERE............

That's the key.

Once they've lifted their max, they should go back on slighty lighter weights and then try to increase the number of reps on those said poundages. When done, try again a new max (heavier than the previous one).

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Yes

That's the key.

Once they've lifted their max, they should go back on slighty lighter weights and then try to increase the number of reps on those said poundages. When done, try again a new max (heavier than the previous one).

I believe that.........the lighter weight GOT them to lift the heavier weight....but I am looking more to the recovery side of the equation.

 

[qbkilla]

I benched 345 for 7 and have yet to even hit 225 for one rep again. The reason...doing 345 tore my pec minor

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

I benched 345 for 7 and have yet to even hit 225 for one rep again. The reason...doing 345 tore my pec minor

At least it was a minor injury......bada bing

 

[TRYN2]

"They hit that max without ever lifting that much weight before"

- I know with this part above, many programs use submaximal weights to set a new pr.

But,

"now, since they got THERE, they cant get back?"

- With this part I think a good programmer would realize this and adjust the percentages in the program to the new max. Again, using submaximal weights to a hit another pr then readjusting and doing the cycle.

Week 1. Warmup, 75%, 80% 85%
Week 2. Warmup, 80%, 85%, 90%
Week 3. Warmup, 75%, 85%, 95% for 1 rep

As you get stronger take the %'s of the new 1 rm max, so in essence your never lifting the max.

Now if people hit a max and don't get stronger many things can happen... I mean a laundry list form food to stress whatever, but if we kept things equal why would they not hit it again?

I think it is because people do not know how to program their workouts. They just hit a rep range with a weight and move on. Wheres the progression?

Cycles, waves, ramps whatever you want to call it, you must know how to program for yourself because a stronger muscle has a better chance of being a bigger muscle. Progression.


So what is your thought Phil?

 

[Phidias]

I believe that.........the lighter weight GOT them to lift the heavier weight....but I am looking more to the recovery side of the equation.

Fried CNS?

 

[brineal]

sounds like it would be an issue of poor programming, possibly incorrect or no periodization, failing to set training intensity/volume based on the new 1 RM...maybe training too many days and not bringing in enough of the right calories at the right time....theres a multitude of reasons this could happen, im curious what you have in mind

 

[TRYN2]

If people to program themselves to back off and recover and ramp back up they just won't do it. It needs to be done, its a blueprint follow it, its there for a reason.

Too many people chase heavier weights, instead of looking at the logbook and chasing another 10lbs, because noone uses the 2.5's (but should, especially upper body) they chase that bigger weight when they should be chasing a rep for a few weeks.

Programs force this. Programs done correctly I should say.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Well

"They hit that max without ever lifting that much weight before"

- I know with this part above, many programs use submaximal weights to set a new pr.

But,

"now, since they got THERE, they cant get back?"

- With this part I think a good programmer would realize this and adjust the percentages in the program to the new max. Again, using submaximal weights to a hit another pr then readjusting and doing the cycle.

Week 1. Warmup, 75%, 80% 85%
Week 2. Warmup, 80%, 85%, 90%
Week 3. Warmup, 75%, 85%, 95% for 1 rep

As you get stronger take the %'s of the new 1 rm max, so in essence your never lifting the max.

Now if people hit a max and don't get stronger many things can happen... I mean a laundry list form food to stress whatever, but if we kept things equal why would they not hit it again?

I think it is because people do not know how to program their workouts. They just hit a rep range with a weight and move on. Wheres the progression?

Cycles, waves, ramps whatever you want to call it, you must know how to program for yourself because a stronger muscle has a better chance of being a bigger muscle. Progression.


So what is your thought Phil?

As Brineal said, many things are at play here, and this could go any direction......I am trying to focus on a certain factor........as important as others yes, but often overlooked. My question is, did the program make him stronger above and beyond the previous max.........the weight training specifically? How important was the( weight lifting) program in attaining this new max?

 

[brineal]

If people to program themselves to back off and recover and ramp back up they just won't do it. It needs to be done, its a blueprint follow it, its there for a reason.

Too many people chase heavier weights, instead of looking at the logbook and chasing another 10lbs, because noone uses the 2.5's (but should, especially upper body) they chase that bigger weight when they should be chasing a rep for a few weeks.

Programs force this. Programs done correctly I should say.

im not sure if im understanding you correctly because nonlinear periodization programs will elicit the best strength gains during an exercise cycle. non linear meaning that there are rest weeks for recovery built into the cycle

ex. week 1 70% week 2 75% week 3 65% week 4 85% and so on

this undulation could also be done within a particular week by alternating light/heavy days for bodyparts, this is common in programming at the college level as well as in professional sports, busting your balls 100 percent of the time without recovery built into the program is a recipe for failure..

i believe that the usa weightlifting team conducted a study some years back and they found that they could push their athletes for roughly 11 days before needing a recovery week - that doesnt mean stopping work, that means programming an intelligent deload in order to keep from overreaching.

 

[brineal]

As Brineal said, many things are at play here, and this could go any direction......I am trying to focus on a certain factor........as important as others yes, but often overlooked. My question is, did the program make him stronger above and beyond the previous max.........the weight training specifically? How important was the( weight lifting) program in attaining this new max?

well since overtraining and CNS fatigue is a function of volume and intensity, then training, especially intense or high volume styles, without proper rest and nutrition is like a car with no engine or fuel? are we getting close?

 

[TRYN2]

im not sure if im understanding you correctly because nonlinear periodization programs will elicit the best strength gains during an exercise cycle. non linear meaning that there are rest weeks for recovery built into the cycle

ex. week 1 70% week 2 75% week 3 65% week 4 85% and so on

this undulation could also be done within a particular week by alternating light/heavy days for bodyparts, this is common in programming at the college level as well as in professional sports, busting your balls 100 percent of the time without recovery built into the program is a recipe for failure..

i believe that the usa weightlifting team conducted a study some years back and they found that they could push their athletes for roughly 11 days before needing a recovery week - that doesnt mean stopping work, that means programming an intelligent deload in order to keep from overreaching.

You are right ... I deload on week 4 usually 65% across the board for the week or less weight if I feel like it but for the whole week.