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Really Disheartening Fertility News From Doctor

Sides

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Dreading on going off trt to get fertile. Ugh I wish I didn’t have to. Also, there are so many conflicting protocols out there. Assuming I have access to everything and I don’t want to wait for spontaneous recovery, what do you recommend out of the gate? HCG/HMG and Enclomiphene?

Why would you go off TRT to get fertile? Test + HCG + HMG (or FSH) has worked for me and many other men to regain fertility while staying on test, it will probably work for you also, barring any pre-existing fertility conditions.

I've been on testosterone and all kinds of anabolic steroids for almost 30 years now, since my first cycle back in 1992. I've been on at least TRT, and usually much more, since January of 2011, without any break at all.

My baby daughter is almost 21 months old now, still in the 99th percentile of both height and weight, and cognitively she is at least a year beyond where most children are at her age. She knows her alphabet and numbers up to 20, can read words from her books, and everywhere we go people are blown away by her vocabulary and ability to express herself. I take her for walks to the playground almost every day, and she is calling out numbers and letters off license plates on the cars we pass going by.

She is happy, healthy, intelligent, and beautiful, and I never would have had her without Test + HCG + HMG. And to the point of your post, I never went off TRT levels of test (or higher, usually between 200-300mg per week) to regain my fertility.

Give it a try and see if it works for you. All you can do in life is give it your best shot, and then let the chips fall where they may.
 

Sides

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Why don’t we do Featured Member anymore - I think we should bring it back and nominate Sides for his contributions. Gold.

Nah, while I appreciate the thought, I'm just a has-been who never was. I was good enough to train with the greats, but I was never great.

Back in the mid-1990's, I was the biggest bodybuilder onstage at state championships at 235 lbs. But I got blown away by smaller bodybuilders whose bodies were aesthetically much more pleasing than my own blocky powerlifting physique. If I have any talent, it is for writing, not for bodybuilding.

I accepted long ago that my purpose was to learn all the stories, so that I may someday tell a greater story. But if I can help someone along the way, I am always happy to be of service.
 

beast405

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Great post Sides, thank you for all of that. That's a shame about your doctor, that is very young, but love hearing how great fatherhood is going for you.

I agree my doctor is old and has his bias. I was surprised to then hear the younger more informed endocrinologist confirm his statements though.

I did watch that video of Dr. Rand McClain someone posted, I've seen it before and have actually talked to him. I know he says he has 100% success rate which is hopeful and that's apparently with only HCG, as I know he doesn't typically use FSH/HMG. I'm still holding on to hope. Every time I feel my balls and see they are the same size I get a little bummed but I know you and others have said you didn't see much increase there either.
My testicles didn’t increase at all when I took Hcg and hmg bro but my sperm count sure did rise.
 

Pissbrain259

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I know how to interpret studies. Trust me, I can show Big A my degree. Just wanted to do a quick look and see what I can find as it seems that any little possible thing can help the OP.

I yield to your degree.
 

Pissbrain259

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The one doctor is willing to prescribe me clomid but said he "would prefer to add enclomiphene - one of the two isomers of Clomid, and the one that appears to have fewer if any side effects. I recommend starting with 12.5mg, but we can start with 25mg if preferred - I just want to avoid OVER suppressing estrogen reception."

any thoughts on that? I've read about enclomiphene is a few studies but don't know much about it, usually it's just briefly mentioned

I agree with adding 12.5 mg of enclomiphene. Start low and titrate very slowly up to 25 mg over the course of 2-3 months. And gotta lay off the juice during this time period.
 

Flex500

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Dreading on going off trt to get fertile. Ugh I wish I didn’t have to. Also, there are so many conflicting protocols out there. Assuming I have access to everything and I don’t want to wait for spontaneous recovery, what do you recommend out of the gate? HCG/HMG and Enclomiphene?

You may not need to come off trt. A lot of this depends on timing. If you are looking to regain fertility right away or a very short timeline I'd probably come off trt. If this is something you are looking to do over a time, like the next year or two I'd just add HMG and HCG with your trt and see how it goes.
 

Pissbrain259

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You may not need to come off trt. A lot of this depends on timing. If you are looking to regain fertility right away or a very short timeline I'd probably come off trt. If this is something you are looking to do over a time, like the next year or two I'd just add HMG and HCG with your trt and see how it goes.

Flex500 is correct. For the record, it is possible to impregnate a woman while on TRT but it is highly unlikely. I am personally aware of only two cases out of lord knows how many others.
 

Needmassquick

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My testicles didn’t increase at all when I took Hcg and hmg bro but my sperm count sure did rise.

This is really fascinating to me. How long did it take your sperm count to rise. The one endocrinologist told me "it takes months and months and months to see any size change. They will see some sperm in the semen before any change in size you can appreciate". Yet we have other members who's size increased right away, and studies where they specifically used size increases as a primary endpoint.

I agree with adding 12.5 mg of enclomiphene. Start low and titrate very slowly up to 25 mg over the course of 2-3 months. And gotta lay off the juice during this time period.

I haven't been on more than legitimate TRT in about 6 years and have been off it entirely the last 5-6 months. The last 5 months or so has been 1000-1500iu HCG + 75-150 FSH 3x per week. I just added 25mg enclomiphene 2 weeks ago. Why do you suggest starting slow and titrating up? So far I notice no issues with it
 

Needmassquick

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Flex500 is correct. For the record, it is possible to impregnate a woman while on TRT but it is highly unlikely. I am personally aware of only two cases out of lord knows how many others.

I hear all the time about bodybuilders getting their girls pregnant on a cycle. I imagine these are guys cycling on and off and not guys who are on year round. Or they should get a paternity test lol.
 

Alistair*

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Yes for sure no regular lube! That said, they actually make lube specifically for conceiving that is supposed to help motility. At worst, it appears to be neutral. At best, it appears to actually help. Quite expensive though! It can be a good help if you are not having strong erections being off testosterone and "go time" means "go time"...like ASAP when that erection hits lol. The one we have is called "pre-seed".
Yes thank you, I did some research and found Pre-seed lube it is supposed to help rather than just being neutral. At $20 for less than 2 oz, we will only be using it during the most fertile time of her cycle.

I’m not off test and boners are easy. I even wake up in the middle of the night with a stiffy.
 

Pissbrain259

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I hear all the time about bodybuilders getting their girls pregnant on a cycle. I imagine these are guys cycling on and off and not guys who are on year round. Or they should get a paternity test lol.

You also hear about all of these airplane crashes on Youtube channels despite flying being "the safest form of travel."
 

Pissbrain259

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This is really fascinating to me. How long did it take your sperm count to rise. The one endocrinologist told me "it takes months and months and months to see any size change. They will see some sperm in the semen before any change in size you can appreciate". Yet we have other members who's size increased right away, and studies where they specifically used size increases as a primary endpoint.



I haven't been on more than legitimate TRT in about 6 years and have been off it entirely the last 5-6 months. The last 5 months or so has been 1000-1500iu HCG + 75-150 FSH 3x per week. I just added 25mg enclomiphene 2 weeks ago. Why do you suggest starting slow and titrating up? So far I notice no issues with it

Is this your fertility doc's regimen? <smh>
 

Alistair*

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I’ll pay for IVF before I’ll go off test. I’d lose my job for lack of ability to function.
 

Alistair*

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Can anyone tell me the minimum a mans FSH level needs to be for fertility? All I can find is the normal range of 1.5 to 12.4 mIU/mL.
 

Sides

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Flex500 is correct. For the record, it is possible to impregnate a woman while on TRT but it is highly unlikely. I am personally aware of only two cases out of lord knows how many others.

I am one of those cases. GotGame is another. There are many others.

For what it's worth, after I had made my wife pregnant, I sold my leftover HMG to two other men, both of whom ended up making their wives pregnant. One of them even stayed on Test and Deca the whole time while he recovered his fertility, which I do not advocate, but nevertheless it did work for him.

As GotGame noted, if we are on Test + HCG + HMG (or FSH), the negative feedback to the pituitary from using exogenous Test (or other steroids) is irrelevant, as we are injecting our fertility hormones, not producing them endogenously.

My fertility doctor disagreed with my use of Test + HCG + HMG. But then, he was morbidly obese and just died of a massive heart attack at the age of 43 last month. I'm 53 and I'm taking my daughter to the playground today. So I am happy that I did not listen to the local "experts" and that I stuck to my guns.

Yes, I am aware that my experiences are n=1, but I personally know a lot of other n's, and the n's are starting to add up.

Just saying.
 

beast405

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Can anyone tell me the minimum a mans FSH level needs to be for fertility? All I can find is the normal range of 1.5 to 12.4 mIU/mL.
I don’t think their is a minimum fsh level for a man to be fertile. The reason I say that is because I became fertile and my fsh and lh has always been at undetectable levels.
 

Alistair*

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I don’t think their is a minimum fsh level for a man to be fertile. The reason I say that is because I became fertile and my fsh and lh has always been at undetectable levels.
Odd. I seen the post where you said your sperm got up to 31 million from HCG and HMG. Glad it worked out for you.
 

beast405

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Odd. I seen the post where you said your sperm got up to 31 million from HCG and HMG. Glad it worked out for you.
Very odd lol. But yeah my fsh and lh remained undetectable and testicles didn’t gain any size but my sperm count went way up pretty quickly.
 

Needmassquick

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Very odd lol. But yeah my fsh and lh remained undetectable and testicles didn’t gain any size but my sperm count went way up pretty quickly.

They remained undetectable because you took exogenous gonadotropins (HCG/HMG) though right? So that makes sense.
 

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