• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
muscleshop
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
PM-Ace-Labs
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
sunrise2
PHARMAHGH1
kinglab
ganabol2
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
pharmacom
granabolic1
napsgear-210x65
finestgears
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
ashp210
UGFREAK-banner-PM
advertise1
advertise1
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

Reducing waist size

b-boy

IFBB Pro / Quadruple Featured Member/ Verified Cus
IFBB PROS
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Verified Customer
Joined
Jun 15, 2003
Messages
10,322
Yes, I'm very dumb.

You didn't quite answer the question, though.

If you don't think GH has helped you grow, to what do you attribute the size difference between pre GH bodybuilders and post GH bodybuilders (ie, early 90s and before, vs. mid 90s and after)?
What do you think? Is it gh? Is it insulin along with a boatload of food to cover that immense dose of insulin? Is it massive doses of insulin and gh together having an impact on IGF production?

What is your theory tbombz? 🤔
 

b-boy

IFBB Pro / Quadruple Featured Member/ Verified Cus
IFBB PROS
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Verified Customer
Joined
Jun 15, 2003
Messages
10,322

marssel

Sponsor / Kilo Club
Registered
Sponsors
Joined
Jan 20, 2003
Messages
2,793
Squatting and deadlifting thicken the waist. The abs are not flexed they are used ispmetrically
That was what I was saying 👍🏼
 

Pericles

Active member
Registered
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
816
That was what I was saying 👍🏼
I corrected it and said they do not. If that was the case every Chinese weightlifter on the planet would have a massive waist bc their relative strength is higher than any other sport.
 

copypastemuscle

New member
Newbies
Joined
Jan 16, 2022
Messages
8
There is a video on youtube of some dude hanging a lot of weight off his penis for 1 hour long. Its an advertisement for the device. I was going to post it here but figured thats going over the line. lol. Its crazy what guys will do to get a bigger penis. I guess when I think about it, what bodybuilders do for bigger muscles is pretty crazy too. Guess I shouldnt laugh at the penis enlargers.
I've done a lot of research on penis enlargement and have tried it, barring I didn't have much time to commit to it but a mate has. It requires more consistency and persistence than your average gym go'er going to the gym and seeing gains. It takes about a year of PE (Penis enlargement training) to see about 1 inch in growth. There's different methods for gaining length, you can manually stretch, use a device like a hanger (pictured above) or weight hanging like you've mentioned. If you're after girth, you can jelq, clamp or pump your member.

Oh and there's been some people who've used DHT gels on their penis and have had crazy gains in a short period of time.

Resources: Link 1 Link 2
 

Biggerp73

Verified Customer
Registered
Verified Customer
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
Messages
2,004
What do you think? Is it gh? Is it insulin along with a boatload of food to cover that immense dose of insulin? Is it massive doses of insulin and gh together having an impact on IGF production?

What is your theory tbombz? 🤔
Don't call me outside my name now

I don't think insulin use caught on at the same time GH did. Seems to me GH hit the scene first, and guys blew up and got a lot bigger, and then insulin came on the scene after.

Yes I think GH is anabolic through factors like IGF1 and other similar pathways.
 

b-boy

IFBB Pro / Quadruple Featured Member/ Verified Cus
IFBB PROS
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Verified Customer
Joined
Jun 15, 2003
Messages
10,322
Don't call me outside my name now

I don't think insulin use caught on at the same time GH did. Seems to me GH hit the scene first, and guys blew up and got a lot bigger, and then insulin came on the scene after.

Yes I think GH is anabolic through factors like IGF1 and other similar pathways.

EFFECTS OF rhGH ON MUSCLE HYPERTROPHY AND MUSCULAR PERFORMANCE IN YOUNG AND OLD HEALTHY SUBJECTS​

It has been speculated that the increased GH secretion in humans would serve as an anabolic signal to increase muscle mass and upregulate the adaptations that occur with exercise training. This hypothesis is supported by the results of many animal studies, in which GH administration causes substantial increases in both muscle mass and strength. In these studies, however, the animals involved were probably still growing and sensitive to both GH and IGF-I.

Acute administration of rhGH or IGF-I in normal healthy humans in the postabsorptive state is reported to acutely increase forearm net balance of amino acids.48,49 The effects are claimed to occur through the stimulation of protein synthesis rather than a fall in protein breakdown. No similar studies were carried out in the fed state, and the lack of reports of any longer term effects (see below) seems to suggest that this anabolic stimulus is short lived. The results of studies of muscle protein synthesis, body composition, and strength in healthy young to middle aged humans tell a different tale: so far, no robust, credible study has been able to show clear effects of either medium to long term rhGH administration, alone or in combination with a variety of training protocols or anabolic steroids, on muscle protein synthesis, mass, or strength.

There are a number of ways in which an effect of GH on muscle growth may be detected. These include measurement of lean body mass by densitometry or by dual x ray absorptiometry. As the rate of muscle protein turnover is relatively slow, it is relatively difficult to detect increases in muscle mass per se over periods shorter than three months using such static techniques, even if the rate of muscle growth is doubled. Measuring the rate of protein synthesis as the rate of incorporation of amino acids labelled with stable isotopes into muscle rather than simply the changes in muscle mass between two points is a much more sensitive method for determining the response of muscle. When this has been done in young healthy adults, no effect on muscle protein synthesis (or indeed on muscle mass measured by other means) has been detected.50 Furthermore, no effect has been detected in body builders and weightlifters.51,52 Thus, at the very least, it appears that the evidence for a sustained anabolic effect of rhGH on muscle mass in normal healthy young men, trained or untrained, is extremely slim.

It has been suggested that, because GH secretion and thus IGF-I availability falls with age, rhGH administration should be beneficial in elderly men in decreasing adiposity and increasing lean body (principally muscle) mass. Indeed Rudman and coworkers53,54 reported evidence that this was so; however, reproduction of these results by other workers has proven difficult. For example, in healthy middle aged to elderly men, administration of rhGH appears to cause no increase in muscle mass or strength55,56 unless it is associated with resistance training. Indeed it appeared that the benefits of exercise in terms of increased glucose tolerance were negated by rhGH in the elderly subjects. Supporting evidence of a lack of effects on elderly, but not particularly GH deficient, men was provided by Taffe and coworkers,57,58 who were unable to see any increases in strength or muscle mass or fibre characteristics after rhGH supplementation during a resistance exercise training programme. Recently, a wide ranging study of the effects of rhGH alone or combined with resistance training on muscle strength, power, muscle cross sectional area, and fibre size and mass in elderly men was unable to show any positive effects except in increasing the expression of myosin heavy chain type 2x.59,60

Despite the excitement of the early days, there also appear to be no discernible effects on skeletal muscle mass or function in healthy elderly subjects, even with testosterone co-administration. The most recent paper available on this topic described the effects of testosterone, rhGH, or the two together in elderly men.61 The authors concluded that, after rhGH or rhGH together with testosterone, apart from the apparent increases in lean body mass of a type criticised above, there were only marginal increases in muscle strength and small increases in oxygen consumption.

It is possible that some workers have confused decreases in fat mass with increases in lean body mass, or have assumed muscle and lean body mass are equivalent. It may also be that rhGH administration causes increases in body water and connective tissue, which are registered as alterations in lean body mass. The overwhelming majority of reports suggesting that rhGH has an anabolic effect in adults come from studies of GH deficient patients.

A number of previous reviewers have made some similar points to those raised here.62–64
 

Pericles

Active member
Registered
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
816
Don't call me outside my name now

I don't think insulin use caught on at the same time GH did. Seems to me GH hit the scene first, and guys blew up and got a lot bigger, and then insulin came on the scene after.

Yes I think GH is anabolic through factors like IGF1 and other similar pathways.
Feelings aren't facts sir
 

Pericles

Active member
Registered
Joined
Mar 23, 2009
Messages
816
 

Biggerp73

Verified Customer
Registered
Verified Customer
Joined
Jan 15, 2012
Messages
2,004

EFFECTS OF rhGH ON MUSCLE HYPERTROPHY AND MUSCULAR PERFORMANCE IN YOUNG AND OLD HEALTHY SUBJECTS​

It has been speculated that the increased GH secretion in humans would serve as an anabolic signal to increase muscle mass and upregulate the adaptations that occur with exercise training. This hypothesis is supported by the results of many animal studies, in which GH administration causes substantial increases in both muscle mass and strength. In these studies, however, the animals involved were probably still growing and sensitive to both GH and IGF-I.

Acute administration of rhGH or IGF-I in normal healthy humans in the postabsorptive state is reported to acutely increase forearm net balance of amino acids.48,49 The effects are claimed to occur through the stimulation of protein synthesis rather than a fall in protein breakdown. No similar studies were carried out in the fed state, and the lack of reports of any longer term effects (see below) seems to suggest that this anabolic stimulus is short lived. The results of studies of muscle protein synthesis, body composition, and strength in healthy young to middle aged humans tell a different tale: so far, no robust, credible study has been able to show clear effects of either medium to long term rhGH administration, alone or in combination with a variety of training protocols or anabolic steroids, on muscle protein synthesis, mass, or strength.

There are a number of ways in which an effect of GH on muscle growth may be detected. These include measurement of lean body mass by densitometry or by dual x ray absorptiometry. As the rate of muscle protein turnover is relatively slow, it is relatively difficult to detect increases in muscle mass per se over periods shorter than three months using such static techniques, even if the rate of muscle growth is doubled. Measuring the rate of protein synthesis as the rate of incorporation of amino acids labelled with stable isotopes into muscle rather than simply the changes in muscle mass between two points is a much more sensitive method for determining the response of muscle. When this has been done in young healthy adults, no effect on muscle protein synthesis (or indeed on muscle mass measured by other means) has been detected.50 Furthermore, no effect has been detected in body builders and weightlifters.51,52 Thus, at the very least, it appears that the evidence for a sustained anabolic effect of rhGH on muscle mass in normal healthy young men, trained or untrained, is extremely slim.

It has been suggested that, because GH secretion and thus IGF-I availability falls with age, rhGH administration should be beneficial in elderly men in decreasing adiposity and increasing lean body (principally muscle) mass. Indeed Rudman and coworkers53,54 reported evidence that this was so; however, reproduction of these results by other workers has proven difficult. For example, in healthy middle aged to elderly men, administration of rhGH appears to cause no increase in muscle mass or strength55,56 unless it is associated with resistance training. Indeed it appeared that the benefits of exercise in terms of increased glucose tolerance were negated by rhGH in the elderly subjects. Supporting evidence of a lack of effects on elderly, but not particularly GH deficient, men was provided by Taffe and coworkers,57,58 who were unable to see any increases in strength or muscle mass or fibre characteristics after rhGH supplementation during a resistance exercise training programme. Recently, a wide ranging study of the effects of rhGH alone or combined with resistance training on muscle strength, power, muscle cross sectional area, and fibre size and mass in elderly men was unable to show any positive effects except in increasing the expression of myosin heavy chain type 2x.59,60

Despite the excitement of the early days, there also appear to be no discernible effects on skeletal muscle mass or function in healthy elderly subjects, even with testosterone co-administration. The most recent paper available on this topic described the effects of testosterone, rhGH, or the two together in elderly men.61 The authors concluded that, after rhGH or rhGH together with testosterone, apart from the apparent increases in lean body mass of a type criticised above, there were only marginal increases in muscle strength and small increases in oxygen consumption.

It is possible that some workers have confused decreases in fat mass with increases in lean body mass, or have assumed muscle and lean body mass are equivalent. It may also be that rhGH administration causes increases in body water and connective tissue, which are registered as alterations in lean body mass. The overwhelming majority of reports suggesting that rhGH has an anabolic effect in adults come from studies of GH deficient patients.

A number of previous reviewers have made some similar points to those raised here.62–64
You really don't think GH has helped you grow?
 

b-boy

IFBB Pro / Quadruple Featured Member/ Verified Cus
IFBB PROS
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Verified Customer
Joined
Jun 15, 2003
Messages
10,322
You really don't think GH has helped you grow?
indirectly I guess by allowing me to eat more food (food really being the reason though)

Directly?......NO!
 

Pheedno

Well-known member
Registered
Joined
Jul 3, 2005
Messages
890
indirectly I guess by allowing me to eat more food (food really being the reason though)

Directly?......NO!
Do you think the amount of food you can increase directly correlates to the dose of growth hormone you take?
Arbitrary example - 5ius is 400 more calories a day but 12ius is 1000 - same partitioning
 

Ranchhand

Well-known member
Registered
Joined
Nov 16, 2013
Messages
789
Ok, I really debated whether I wanted to jump into this or not but from my understanding GH facilitates cell proliferation within the muscle, AAS increases the size or growth of these new cells and insulin up regulates nutrients into the muscle's cells to help further the growth of these new muscle's cells, yes, no, this is my understanding. Reason why GH can be viewed as a growth factor when in reality it just proliferates new cells that then need to grow into mature cells through hormone manipulation and forcing nutrients into those cells for growth. To me insulin would be the greatest factor for improving the efficiency of consuming large amounts of food everyday for growth even though GH helps to partition the nutrients into the muscle cells. GH, AAS, and slin all work synergistically together for the ultimate effect on muscle growth.
 

b-boy

IFBB Pro / Quadruple Featured Member/ Verified Cus
IFBB PROS
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Verified Customer
Joined
Jun 15, 2003
Messages
10,322
Do you think the amount of food you can increase directly correlates to the dose of growth hormone you take?
Arbitrary example - 5ius is 400 more calories a day but 12ius is 1000 - same partitioning
That's a good question! You can release all the FFA in the world but if your not burning them they will be stored again.
The higher the dose the more FFA released, the higher the blood glucose will rise. There needs to be more pieces to the puzzle rather than just upping the gh dose (insulin??, L-carnitine??, AAS??)
 

alfresco

Featured Member / Kilo Klub Member
Featured Member
Registered
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Messages
3,472
indirectly I guess by allowing me to eat more food (food really being the reason though)

Directly?......NO!

No expert here. Let us get that out of the way.

From what I understand from reading this forum, I am inclined to propose an analogy and that is . . . look at epoxy glue. Any of the tubes, components on their own will not harden, work. But mix the various components together and then it hardens.

GH is like that. On its own, probably not going to be effective but combining it with other components and BINGO.
 

qbkilla

Well-known member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Messages
5,094
That's a good question! You can release all the FFA in the world but if your not burning them they will be stored again.
The higher the dose the more FFA released, the higher the blood glucose will rise. There needs to be more pieces to the puzzle rather than just upping the gh dose (insulin??, L-carnitine??, AAS??)
Question..

Based on this, assume someone is using 2iu per day. They train eod and eat higher calories. On off days they do cardio and eat below maintenance psmf.

Would it be smart to switch to using 4iu on the psmf/cardio/low calorie days rathe than continue to use a steady 2iu Ed?

Since those are the days we are potentially releasing FFA?

Just a random thought I had when reading this post
 

b-boy

IFBB Pro / Quadruple Featured Member/ Verified Cus
IFBB PROS
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Verified Customer
Joined
Jun 15, 2003
Messages
10,322
Question..

Based on this, assume someone is using 2iu per day. They train eod and eat higher calories. On off days they do cardio and eat below maintenance psmf.

Would it be smart to switch to using 4iu on the psmf/cardio/low calorie days rathe than continue to use a steady 2iu Ed?

Since those are the days we are potentially releasing FFA?

Just a random thought I had when reading this post
2iu before cardio on non training days.

2iu iu before cardio and 2iu before training on training days is a good idea 💡
 

b-boy

IFBB Pro / Quadruple Featured Member/ Verified Cus
IFBB PROS
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Verified Customer
Joined
Jun 15, 2003
Messages
10,322
No expert here. Let us get that out of the way.

From what I understand from reading this forum, I am inclined to propose an analogy and that is . . . look at epoxy glue. Any of the tubes, components on their own will not harden, work. But mix the various components together and then it hardens.

GH is like that. On its own, probably not going to be effective but combining it with other components and BINGO.
Did you read all the studies posted?
Just asking
 

b-boy

IFBB Pro / Quadruple Featured Member/ Verified Cus
IFBB PROS
Featured Member
Kilo Klub Member
Registered
Verified Customer
Joined
Jun 15, 2003
Messages
10,322

Staff online

Forum statistics

Total page views
533,207,657
Threads
130,737
Messages
2,617,308
Members
158,364
Latest member
MyTastyBits
NapsGear
HGH Power Store email banner
Leader Powder Store email banner
Prowrist straps store banner
Advertise Here
FLASHING-BOTTOM-BANNER-210x131
raws
Savage Labs Store email
Syntherol Site Enhancing Oil Synthol
AQ3 email Banner
pomps
rawhormone
ezgif-com-resize-2-1
MA Research Chem store banner
MA Supps Store Banner
thc
Keytech banner
musclechem
Godbullraw-bottom-banner
Injection Instructions for beginners
Knight Labs store email banner
ODINBanner-PM1
ashp131
Advertise Here
Top