Reducing waist size

[Cabron]

It probably actually hinders digestability. Chewing and swallowing is an important part of digestion

Well I still chew it lol

I don’t just inhale it

 

[b-boy]

Yes, I'm very dumb.

You didn't quite answer the question, though.

If you don't think GH has helped you grow, to what do you attribute the size difference between pre GH bodybuilders and post GH bodybuilders (ie, early 90s and before, vs. mid 90s and after)?

What do you think? Is it gh? Is it insulin along with a boatload of food to cover that immense dose of insulin? Is it massive doses of insulin and gh together having an impact on IGF production?

What is your theory tbombz?

 

[b-boy]

Squatting and deadlifting thicken the waist. The abs are not flexed they are used ispmetrically

I like this guy

 

[marssel]

Squatting and deadlifting thicken the waist. The abs are not flexed they are used ispmetrically

That was what I was saying

 

[Pericles]

That was what I was saying

I corrected it and said they do not. If that was the case every Chinese weightlifter on the planet would have a massive waist bc their relative strength is higher than any other sport.

 

[copypastemuscle]

There is a video on youtube of some dude hanging a lot of weight off his penis for 1 hour long. Its an advertisement for the device. I was going to post it here but figured thats going over the line. lol. Its crazy what guys will do to get a bigger penis. I guess when I think about it, what bodybuilders do for bigger muscles is pretty crazy too. Guess I shouldnt laugh at the penis enlargers.

I've done a lot of research on penis enlargement and have tried it, barring I didn't have much time to commit to it but a mate has. It requires more consistency and persistence than your average gym go'er going to the gym and seeing gains. It takes about a year of PE (Penis enlargement training) to see about 1 inch in growth. There's different methods for gaining length, you can manually stretch, use a device like a hanger (pictured above) or weight hanging like you've mentioned. If you're after girth, you can jelq, clamp or pump your member.

Oh and there's been some people who've used DHT gels on their penis and have had crazy gains in a short period of time.

Resources: Link 1 Link 2

 

[Biggerp73]

What do you think? Is it gh? Is it insulin along with a boatload of food to cover that immense dose of insulin? Is it massive doses of insulin and gh together having an impact on IGF production?

What is your theory tbombz?

Don't call me outside my name now

I don't think insulin use caught on at the same time GH did. Seems to me GH hit the scene first, and guys blew up and got a lot bigger, and then insulin came on the scene after.

Yes I think GH is anabolic through factors like IGF1 and other similar pathways.

 

[b-boy]

Don't call me outside my name now

I don't think insulin use caught on at the same time GH did. Seems to me GH hit the scene first, and guys blew up and got a lot bigger, and then insulin came on the scene after.

Yes I think GH is anabolic through factors like IGF1 and other similar pathways.

EFFECTS OF rhGH ON MUSCLE HYPERTROPHY AND MUSCULAR PERFORMANCE IN YOUNG AND OLD HEALTHY SUBJECTS​

It has been speculated that the increased GH secretion in humans would serve as an anabolic signal to increase muscle mass and upregulate the adaptations that occur with exercise training. This hypothesis is supported by the results of many animal studies, in which GH administration causes substantial increases in both muscle mass and strength. In these studies, however, the animals involved were probably still growing and sensitive to both GH and IGF-I.

Acute administration of rhGH or IGF-I in normal healthy humans in the postabsorptive state is reported to acutely increase forearm net balance of amino acids.48,49 The effects are claimed to occur through the stimulation of protein synthesis rather than a fall in protein breakdown. No similar studies were carried out in the fed state, and the lack of reports of any longer term effects (see below) seems to suggest that this anabolic stimulus is short lived. The results of studies of muscle protein synthesis, body composition, and strength in healthy young to middle aged humans tell a different tale: so far, no robust, credible study has been able to show clear effects of either medium to long term rhGH administration, alone or in combination with a variety of training protocols or anabolic steroids, on muscle protein synthesis, mass, or strength.

There are a number of ways in which an effect of GH on muscle growth may be detected. These include measurement of lean body mass by densitometry or by dual x ray absorptiometry. As the rate of muscle protein turnover is relatively slow, it is relatively difficult to detect increases in muscle mass per se over periods shorter than three months using such static techniques, even if the rate of muscle growth is doubled. Measuring the rate of protein synthesis as the rate of incorporation of amino acids labelled with stable isotopes into muscle rather than simply the changes in muscle mass between two points is a much more sensitive method for determining the response of muscle. When this has been done in young healthy adults, no effect on muscle protein synthesis (or indeed on muscle mass measured by other means) has been detected.50 Furthermore, no effect has been detected in body builders and weightlifters.51,52 Thus, at the very least, it appears that the evidence for a sustained anabolic effect of rhGH on muscle mass in normal healthy young men, trained or untrained, is extremely slim.

It has been suggested that, because GH secretion and thus IGF-I availability falls with age, rhGH administration should be beneficial in elderly men in decreasing adiposity and increasing lean body (principally muscle) mass. Indeed Rudman and coworkers53,54 reported evidence that this was so; however, reproduction of these results by other workers has proven difficult. For example, in healthy middle aged to elderly men, administration of rhGH appears to cause no increase in muscle mass or strength55,56 unless it is associated with resistance training. Indeed it appeared that the benefits of exercise in terms of increased glucose tolerance were negated by rhGH in the elderly subjects. Supporting evidence of a lack of effects on elderly, but not particularly GH deficient, men was provided by Taffe and coworkers,57,58 who were unable to see any increases in strength or muscle mass or fibre characteristics after rhGH supplementation during a resistance exercise training programme. Recently, a wide ranging study of the effects of rhGH alone or combined with resistance training on muscle strength, power, muscle cross sectional area, and fibre size and mass in elderly men was unable to show any positive effects except in increasing the expression of myosin heavy chain type 2x.59,60

Despite the excitement of the early days, there also appear to be no discernible effects on skeletal muscle mass or function in healthy elderly subjects, even with testosterone co-administration. The most recent paper available on this topic described the effects of testosterone, rhGH, or the two together in elderly men.61 The authors concluded that, after rhGH or rhGH together with testosterone, apart from the apparent increases in lean body mass of a type criticised above, there were only marginal increases in muscle strength and small increases in oxygen consumption.

It is possible that some workers have confused decreases in fat mass with increases in lean body mass, or have assumed muscle and lean body mass are equivalent. It may also be that rhGH administration causes increases in body water and connective tissue, which are registered as alterations in lean body mass. The overwhelming majority of reports suggesting that rhGH has an anabolic effect in adults come from studies of GH deficient patients.

A number of previous reviewers have made some similar points to those raised here.62–64

 

[Pericles]

Don't call me outside my name now

I don't think insulin use caught on at the same time GH did. Seems to me GH hit the scene first, and guys blew up and got a lot bigger, and then insulin came on the scene after.

Yes I think GH is anabolic through factors like IGF1 and other similar pathways.

Feelings aren't facts sir

Growth Hormone Does Not Grow Muscle

Growth Hormone has been claimed to be a muscle building hormone by many in the fitness industry. These claims are not supported by data. Let's get into it.

www.biolayne.com

 

[Pericles]

Effect of growth hormone and resistance exercise on muscle growth in young men - PubMed

The purpose of this study was to determine whether growth hormone (GH) administration enhances the muscle anabolism associated with heavy-resistance exercise. Sixteen men (21-34 yr) were assigned randomly to a resistance training plus GH group (n = 7) or to a resistance training plus placebo...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Effect of growth hormone and resistance exercise on muscle growth and strength in older men - PubMed

The purpose of this study was to determine whether growth hormone (GH) administration enhances the muscle protein anabolism associated with heavy-resistance exercise training in older men. Twenty-three healthy, sedentary men (67 +/- 1 yr) with low serum insulin-like growth factor I levels...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Human exercise-mediated skeletal muscle hypertrophy is an intrinsic process - PubMed

Muscle cells (fibres) are post-mitotic and thus undergo changes in phenotype by modifying their existing structure. Hypertrophy is a hallmark change that occurs in response to increased loading and can be achieved in humans through repeated bouts of resistance exercise (i.e., training). In...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Growing collagen, not muscle, with weightlifting and ‘growth’ hormone

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Biggerp73]

EFFECTS OF rhGH ON MUSCLE HYPERTROPHY AND MUSCULAR PERFORMANCE IN YOUNG AND OLD HEALTHY SUBJECTS​

It has been speculated that the increased GH secretion in humans would serve as an anabolic signal to increase muscle mass and upregulate the adaptations that occur with exercise training. This hypothesis is supported by the results of many animal studies, in which GH administration causes substantial increases in both muscle mass and strength. In these studies, however, the animals involved were probably still growing and sensitive to both GH and IGF-I.

Acute administration of rhGH or IGF-I in normal healthy humans in the postabsorptive state is reported to acutely increase forearm net balance of amino acids.48,49 The effects are claimed to occur through the stimulation of protein synthesis rather than a fall in protein breakdown. No similar studies were carried out in the fed state, and the lack of reports of any longer term effects (see below) seems to suggest that this anabolic stimulus is short lived. The results of studies of muscle protein synthesis, body composition, and strength in healthy young to middle aged humans tell a different tale: so far, no robust, credible study has been able to show clear effects of either medium to long term rhGH administration, alone or in combination with a variety of training protocols or anabolic steroids, on muscle protein synthesis, mass, or strength.

There are a number of ways in which an effect of GH on muscle growth may be detected. These include measurement of lean body mass by densitometry or by dual x ray absorptiometry. As the rate of muscle protein turnover is relatively slow, it is relatively difficult to detect increases in muscle mass per se over periods shorter than three months using such static techniques, even if the rate of muscle growth is doubled. Measuring the rate of protein synthesis as the rate of incorporation of amino acids labelled with stable isotopes into muscle rather than simply the changes in muscle mass between two points is a much more sensitive method for determining the response of muscle. When this has been done in young healthy adults, no effect on muscle protein synthesis (or indeed on muscle mass measured by other means) has been detected.50 Furthermore, no effect has been detected in body builders and weightlifters.51,52 Thus, at the very least, it appears that the evidence for a sustained anabolic effect of rhGH on muscle mass in normal healthy young men, trained or untrained, is extremely slim.

It has been suggested that, because GH secretion and thus IGF-I availability falls with age, rhGH administration should be beneficial in elderly men in decreasing adiposity and increasing lean body (principally muscle) mass. Indeed Rudman and coworkers53,54 reported evidence that this was so; however, reproduction of these results by other workers has proven difficult. For example, in healthy middle aged to elderly men, administration of rhGH appears to cause no increase in muscle mass or strength55,56 unless it is associated with resistance training. Indeed it appeared that the benefits of exercise in terms of increased glucose tolerance were negated by rhGH in the elderly subjects. Supporting evidence of a lack of effects on elderly, but not particularly GH deficient, men was provided by Taffe and coworkers,57,58 who were unable to see any increases in strength or muscle mass or fibre characteristics after rhGH supplementation during a resistance exercise training programme. Recently, a wide ranging study of the effects of rhGH alone or combined with resistance training on muscle strength, power, muscle cross sectional area, and fibre size and mass in elderly men was unable to show any positive effects except in increasing the expression of myosin heavy chain type 2x.59,60

Despite the excitement of the early days, there also appear to be no discernible effects on skeletal muscle mass or function in healthy elderly subjects, even with testosterone co-administration. The most recent paper available on this topic described the effects of testosterone, rhGH, or the two together in elderly men.61 The authors concluded that, after rhGH or rhGH together with testosterone, apart from the apparent increases in lean body mass of a type criticised above, there were only marginal increases in muscle strength and small increases in oxygen consumption.

It is possible that some workers have confused decreases in fat mass with increases in lean body mass, or have assumed muscle and lean body mass are equivalent. It may also be that rhGH administration causes increases in body water and connective tissue, which are registered as alterations in lean body mass. The overwhelming majority of reports suggesting that rhGH has an anabolic effect in adults come from studies of GH deficient patients.

A number of previous reviewers have made some similar points to those raised here.62–64

You really don't think GH has helped you grow?

 

[b-boy]

You really don't think GH has helped you grow?

indirectly I guess by allowing me to eat more food (food really being the reason though)

Directly?......NO!

 

[Pheedno]

indirectly I guess by allowing me to eat more food (food really being the reason though)

Directly?......NO!

Do you think the amount of food you can increase directly correlates to the dose of growth hormone you take?
Arbitrary example - 5ius is 400 more calories a day but 12ius is 1000 - same partitioning

 

[Ranchhand]

Ok, I really debated whether I wanted to jump into this or not but from my understanding GH facilitates cell proliferation within the muscle, AAS increases the size or growth of these new cells and insulin up regulates nutrients into the muscle's cells to help further the growth of these new muscle's cells, yes, no, this is my understanding. Reason why GH can be viewed as a growth factor when in reality it just proliferates new cells that then need to grow into mature cells through hormone manipulation and forcing nutrients into those cells for growth. To me insulin would be the greatest factor for improving the efficiency of consuming large amounts of food everyday for growth even though GH helps to partition the nutrients into the muscle cells. GH, AAS, and slin all work synergistically together for the ultimate effect on muscle growth.

 

[b-boy]

Do you think the amount of food you can increase directly correlates to the dose of growth hormone you take?
Arbitrary example - 5ius is 400 more calories a day but 12ius is 1000 - same partitioning

That's a good question! You can release all the FFA in the world but if your not burning them they will be stored again.
The higher the dose the more FFA released, the higher the blood glucose will rise. There needs to be more pieces to the puzzle rather than just upping the gh dose (insulin??, L-carnitine??, AAS??)

 

[alfresco]

indirectly I guess by allowing me to eat more food (food really being the reason though)

Directly?......NO!

No expert here. Let us get that out of the way.

From what I understand from reading this forum, I am inclined to propose an analogy and that is . . . look at epoxy glue. Any of the tubes, components on their own will not harden, work. But mix the various components together and then it hardens.

GH is like that. On its own, probably not going to be effective but combining it with other components and BINGO.

 

[qbkilla]

That's a good question! You can release all the FFA in the world but if your not burning them they will be stored again.
The higher the dose the more FFA released, the higher the blood glucose will rise. There needs to be more pieces to the puzzle rather than just upping the gh dose (insulin??, L-carnitine??, AAS??)

Question..

Based on this, assume someone is using 2iu per day. They train eod and eat higher calories. On off days they do cardio and eat below maintenance psmf.

Would it be smart to switch to using 4iu on the psmf/cardio/low calorie days rathe than continue to use a steady 2iu Ed?

Since those are the days we are potentially releasing FFA?

Just a random thought I had when reading this post

 

[b-boy]

Question..

Based on this, assume someone is using 2iu per day. They train eod and eat higher calories. On off days they do cardio and eat below maintenance psmf.

Would it be smart to switch to using 4iu on the psmf/cardio/low calorie days rathe than continue to use a steady 2iu Ed?

Since those are the days we are potentially releasing FFA?

Just a random thought I had when reading this post

2iu before cardio on non training days.

2iu iu before cardio and 2iu before training on training days is a good idea

 

[b-boy]

No expert here. Let us get that out of the way.

From what I understand from reading this forum, I am inclined to propose an analogy and that is . . . look at epoxy glue. Any of the tubes, components on their own will not harden, work. But mix the various components together and then it hardens.

GH is like that. On its own, probably not going to be effective but combining it with other components and BINGO.

Did you read all the studies posted?
Just asking

 

[b-boy]

You really don't think GH has helped you grow?

@Biggerp73 Alex Kikkel made this post and I can agree on this!