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Refeeds / cheat meals and metabolic reactivation

USMuscle9403

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It seems from the relatively recent research put forth, one needs to be in a hypercaloric environment for at least two or three days, possibly longer, in order to have much effect on leptin or grehlin. A cheat meal, day, whatever, will spike these hormones, but they soon revert back to hypometabolic levels. Essentially, a cheat meal or day is good for mental well being and a few workout's worth of glycogen.

Just throwing it out there, but I think the idea that it 'speeds metabolism' is from a high carb, high sodium meal essentially filling you out, you look better and in my own experience, this can also lead to a water drop where you might look leaner.
 

DarrenG29

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I think B-Boy is referring to 721 posts in 6 weeks. Take some deep breaths and baby steps!! Sit back, relax, read, and chill.
Is there a law to the amount you can post I’m contributing and giving my own advice if that’s slightly miss read then correct that without hating giving the fact I’ve done this for many years doesn’t matter if you’ve been on this forum 10 years or 10 minutes
 

DarrenG29

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Some one, even a very smart person, coming up with a theory had better have several good studies to back up each point or it really doesn't mean much to me.
Right but I didn’t say one day speeds up metabolism did i

I said a 3 carb refeed will help more than one day by Lyles information

and it takes more than one day to gain fat. That if in a surplus fats vs carbs you’d gain fat quicker on a high fat diet in a SURPLUS over carbs but at the end of the day you will gain fat eating carbs it will just take longer than the higher fat diet

which is correct how can you argue that point

oh but whoever you are I’m racking up post points like you say this board is only for retired ifbb pros and long term members anyone new here posting can’t be accepted by the old vets.
 

Dugbet

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Some old posts by Shelby and b-boy (ten years ago) stated they accelerated fat loss.

Here's my dilemma and the reason for this thread, Matt Porter and Shelby are my favorite guys, each said something totally different about refeed or cheat days.
 

Dugbet

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That if in a surplus fats vs carbs you’d gain fat quicker on a high fat diet in a SURPLUS over carbs but at the end of the day you will gain fat eating carbs it will just take longer than the higher fat diet

That is not true, many people prefer to load fat because it is more difficult to spill than with carbs.
 

buck

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Right but I didn’t say one day speeds up metabolism did i

I said a 3 carb refeed will help more than one day by Lyles information

and it takes more than one day to gain fat. That if in a surplus fats vs carbs you’d gain fat quicker on a high fat diet in a SURPLUS over carbs but at the end of the day you will gain fat eating carbs it will just take longer than the higher fat diet

which is correct how can you argue that point

oh but whoever you are I’m racking up post points like you say this board is only for retired ifbb pros and long term members anyone new here posting can’t be accepted by the old vets.
If you look you will see I was commenting on the link you shared and mentioned nothing about you. You seem to be the very sensitive type.
 

DarrenG29

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If you look you will see I was commenting on the link you shared and mentioned nothing about you. You seem to be the very sensitive type.
Not at all buddy I can admit if I’m wrong I’m wrong I have no shame in that but I can safely say I look up to people better than and respect them you should do the same

or post a photo 😉 a name with no avatar or photos can’t be trusted

Oh and from pms people are seeing the hate not just me lol peace ✌️

https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/how-we-get-fat (read)
 

buck

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Ok you are very very smart DarrenG29 and look great. Now do you feel better.
 

FK86

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Can you show me studies saying that one cheat meal or refeed day speeds up metabolism?

No, I cannot.

I love Skip, but i think a lot of this is new science that he might not be familiar with. The metabolism just doesn't work THAT FAST to change quickly in the course of hours or 1 single day. We seen the shortest period of time is like 5-7 days of really upping your cals.

As far as the sweating, this isn't your metabolism ramping up. It's a blood sugar swing that is causing a release of cortisol and adrenaline. Its not your metabolism "firing." Your body just isn't working THAT fast. Sweating, carb coma, alllll of that is connected.

Interesting. Then it was a myth for a long time that it was raising the metabolism when it seems it’s more the result of manipulating hormones to continue fat loss. There can be confusion on how to incorporate them as there’s many methods and they’ve all worked.

Cheat Meal – Free for All
Cheat Meal – “Don’t Go Overboard”
Boring Refeed – Oatmeal, Potatoes, Rice
Fun Refeed – Skipload, Carb Nite, Anabolic Diet

And then the issue of timing and how long the window is. Some people are having one cheat meal and it’s ruining their progress, others are doing a full two-day carb up with some really fun foods like on the AD and getting shredded. I guess it’s purely individual and trial and error needs to be done.

There was a guy over at Intense Muscle, username: Myth, and his Skiploads were RETARDED. This guy was easily smashing 15-20k calories and still losing weight. He wasn’t a big guy either. I think his weight fluctuated in the 160-180 range.

I'm not a big science guy so I won't try to guess any of that. I'm evidence-based in the sense of evidence being how much muscle I have and how shredded I get.

I don't think a single cheat meal / day when on a hard bodybuilding cut diet is doing much for metabolism, particularly if you're already taking T3. We take T3 to combat the metabolic drop from extended hard dieting.

One benefit we can probably all agree on is the increased gym output it gives you for the 1-2 workouts after your cheat. You can train a bit harder, move a little more weight, cardio is easier, so that probably does impact fat loss, but I bet it's incremental. There's also the psychological aspect of seeing yourself bursting at the seams after being really flat for a few days - it's like a preview of that final product you're working towards and that can be very motivating to stay on track.

For me, cheating when on a hard diet is all about the mental impact. I typically go to 0 carbs on weekdays when I'm 1/3 to 1/2 through a diet and as I've stated before my calories get really low - I had a few days last year where calories were around 990 at 230lbs. shredded.

I have no problem sticking to that because I know when the weekend comes we'll go out for brunch, I'll have a big bowl of ice cream / cookies / protein powder, etc. I'm not eating non-stop all day, just 3-4 meals, but it's pretty much whatever I want - no garbage shit like pizza and burgers; more like sushi, fried rice, a big breakfast with an egg scramble / fruit / toast / sausage, etc.

100% diet adherence is a problem for a lot of guys so whatever can fix that is a valuable fat loss tool. I also think it's absolutely ridiculous when guys who don't pay their bills via bodybuilding are so hardcore they can't ever have a cheat meal, they can't go out with friends, etc. That's not a truly enjoyable way to live for most but many guys delude themselves into thinking it is and miss out on a lot of great life experiences. One meal with friends or wild night out isn't won't radically alter your progress on a diet - if it does, you were already doing other things wrong.

Thanks for your input. I always like your realistic, grounded take on things.

990 calories is crazy, man. For anyone. The fact that you were 230 carrying that kind of muscle is some warrior-level stuff.
 

Dugbet

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So we agree that metabolism can't be sped up in few hours or days, so if you're on a 3,500 calorie diet, whats is the sense to do a cheat day by doubling calories like many guys do? If you are going to do refeed or cheat meals, wouldn't it be ideal to increase your calories just a little, like 15-20%?
 

Gunsmith

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So we agree that metabolism can't be sped up in few hours or days, so if you're on a 3,500 calorie diet, whats is the sense to do a cheat day by doubling calories like many guys do? If you are going to do refeed or cheat meals, wouldn't it be ideal to increase your calories just a little, like 15-20%?
If you are taking in 3500 cals a day I don't think a cheat meal or refeed day is called for.
Now of you are on a low carb diet I can see taking a day and replace alot of your Protein with carbs to replenish glycogen a bit.
 

Dugbet

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No god, I will never eat those amounts of calories in a cut diet (no even in mass period), it was a hypothetical example of a bodybuilder with considerable muscle mass.

I get that idea out of this post

 

FuriousAngus

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No god, I will never eat those amounts of calories in a cut diet (no even in mass period), it was a hypothetical example of a bodybuilder with considerable muscle mass.

I get that idea out of this post

Just because he said he ate 12,000 calories doesn't mean he did. Just saying (I'm not saying he didn't either). It's well known that a lot of big guys "brag" about how much they can eat without putting on fat. It's very similar to their claim of "I got to 265lbs on 500mg of test and 2 iu GH". That said, I remember I'd diet on a 1000 calorie deficit for 6 days and on the 7th I would have a massive meal at night, usually totaling over 5-6k for the day and still losing 2lbs a week, so this skiploading idea isn't all that far fetched.
 

TheOtherOne55

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No god, I will never eat those amounts of calories in a cut diet (no even in mass period), it was a hypothetical example of a bodybuilder with considerable muscle mass.

I get that idea out of this post

In order to give an accurate example of WHY someone might add a refeed or cheat, you have to give accurate numbers or at least context to what they are doing. Gunsmith called it, 3500cals in what scenario? Is this a SHW at 10 weeks out? Is this a 190lb lifter who is in their offseason? They are literally 10000s of answers to that question.
 

Dugbet

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That said, I remember I'd diet on a 1000 calorie deficit for 6 days and on the 7th I would have a massive meal at night, usually totaling over 5-6k for the day and still losing 2lbs a week, so this skiploading idea isn't all that far fetched.

I understand this strategy, but it is a fine line, you could ruin the deficit week on a massive cheat day. I mean, we all know how hard it is to stop when we start eating delicious foods that we've been restricting for a while.
 

Needmassquick

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Refeeds or cheat meals are made for the following reasons:

- Psychological reward after days or weeks of strict diet.

- Fill up the glycogen stores to train (in theory) harder and with more motivation for a few days.

- To look better in a contest or photo sesion.

- Metabolic reactivation to stimulate fat loss.

It is this last point that interests me to deepen.

I remember Matt Porter saying that one cheat day was not enough to reactivate the metabolism, that you would have to eat many days to provoke that kind of stimulation.

On the other hand, there are tons of athletes and coaches who use this strategy and swear that it helps to acelerate fat loss process.

Is there any scientific study on this matter? And what do you think, Matt was right or wrong?

I've always loved cheat meals but I do think they set me back sometimes
 

FuriousAngus

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I understand this strategy, but it is a fine line, you could ruin the deficit week on a massive cheat day. I mean, we all know how hard it is to stop when we start eating delicious foods that we've been restricting for a while.
I think being depleted really plays a huge role in this as well. That side, strategy is still very important when incorporating these things. Say your maint is around 3000; you diet on 2000 a week for 6 days (6000 calorie deficit) and on the 7th day you eat 5000 calories. of those 5000 you burn 3000 so you're left with 2000. Assuming you're somewhat depleted (which you should be) you're not really cutting much into that 6000 calorie deficit. Let's assume you're left with 5000. Is that really too bad of a sacrifice for a reasonably nice cheat day that could also enhance your training for the next few days through glycogen replenishment? It's still nearly 7lbs a month...
 

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