Rotator Cuff Training?

[bigdfk]

Hi guys,

I finally have a question that doesn't seem to be answered here already. A buddy of mine started doing rotator cuff exercises (light cable work I assume) and claims it added 30lbs to his bench. I just started adding a few sets at the end of my chest workout today to see if it will do me any good. (I plan on doing this after every chest workout once a week). I can say that I definitely feel some tingling in my shoulders.

I was wondering if anyone had any opinions, or advice on rotator cuff exercises and their effectiveness. I've been lifting for a few years so I figured that they were already up to par just by indirect training, but perhaps I have been missing out on a good way to grow? Lets hear your thoughts.

Dan

 

[Sesshomaru]

The rotator cuff is a sadly neglected area among athletes. Just because you have a big chest and big shoulders doesnt mean that your stabilizers are firing properly.

I make sure that my rotator is strong if I went a strong and healthy press.

 

[bigshadow]

They are great for keeping your shoulders healthy and avoiding injury. I think just about everyone has injured their shoulders at some point. Some of us have chronic injuries that never go away (for various reasons).

The rotator cuff is actually a group of tiny muscles that stabalize the shoulder joint. What tends to happen with many people is that all of the heavy chest exercises eventually causes the internal rotator cuff muscle (at the front) to overdevelop leaving an imbalance with the external rotator cuff muscles which are in the rear. This leads to impingement. These are the guys who's shoulders are sloped forwards.

I train my rotator cuff muscles at least twice a week. I use bands at home.

At one point mine were so badly balanced that I was not able to do flat pressing movements for 5 years. That was until I learned how important these rotator cuff exercises are for you.

Do a google search and you will find lots of info on the exercises that you can do.

 

[sbv]

A buddy of mine started doing rotator cuff exercises (light cable work I assume) and claims it added 30lbs to his bench. I

lol. I dont see rotator cuff work ever increasing my bench... maybe if there was a strong imbalance in the first place but dont expect miracles.

I mostly just do the standing external rotation with dumbbells, where you put your arms in a bench press position and move the dumbbells upwards so you end up in a military press position. i go light just to increase blood flow and promote recovery in that area, to avoid injury in the long term.

the shoulder horn is supposed to be really good :
http://www.betterfitnessproducts.com/shoulderhorn.html
but you can benefit from basically the same movement without it if you dont want to invest in it

im sure that going heavy on rotator cuff work can have benefits but I dont bother because I don't feel that I need to, and I want to avoid overworking them which would probably be worse than not working them at all.

 

[Sesshomaru]

im sure that going heavy on rotator cuff work can have benefits but I dont bother because I don't feel that I need to, and I want to avoid overworking them which would probably be worse than not working them at all.

No. This is a common misconception. They are small stabilizers and respond well to high reps. Because using heavy weight or moving quickly will cause the body to trigger surrounding musculature (i.e. lats, posterior delt, pec major, etc.) you want to go light and slow on these movements to isolate the certain areas of the cuff.

Additionally, external rotations are not the only movements to do for your cuff. You still need work for your subscap and teres minor.

Finally, everyone here needs to take a good look at their posture. Most of the member pics here show severe internal rotation in a standing position and I wouldnt doubt that some here have scapular issues. So get your posture checked and make sure that youre not undoing your work in the gym.

 

[inoverdrive]

I dont want to say this is an exercise but something you can do to keep it healthy. Get a broomstick and hold it at both ends. Then keeping your arms locked bring it up over your head and to your back. This was an exercise they talk about on DC Training.

 

[Sesshomaru]

I dont want to say this is an exercise but something you can do to keep it healthy. Get a broomstick and hold it at both ends. Then keeping your arms locked bring it up over your head and to your back. This was an exercise they talk about on DC Training.

This is called a shoulder dislocate and I wouldnt train anybody to do it.

 

[flexmaster]

Finally, everyone here needs to take a good look at their posture. Most of the member pics here show severe internal rotation in a standing position and I wouldnt doubt that some here have scapular issues. So get your posture checked and make sure that youre not undoing your work in the gym.

i have noticed the same thing. i have been contemplating starting a thread discussing some of the issues i think people here could benefit from, but wondered how well it would be recieved.

 

[bigshadow]

the shoulder horn is supposed to be really good :
http://www.betterfitnessproducts.com/shoulderhorn.html
but you can benefit from basically the same movement without it if you dont want to invest in it

The shoulder horn is excellent. I use this along with internal and external rotation exercises. I also do bent over lateral raises and at one time I think an exercise where I was bent over at the waist and with a dumbell in hand raised it straight back parallel to the floor. Sort of like a bent over tricep extension only you keep your arm locked.

Like Sesshomaru said. All of these exercises should be done with lightweight, high reps, and slow. Typically, I do them in the 15-30 rep range. At least that is what has worked the best for me. I wasn't making any progress with my shoulder pain until a physical therapist taught me of the importance of going slow for rehabilitation purposes and high reps.

 

[sbv]

Additionally, external rotations are not the only movements to do for your cuff. You still need work for your subscap and teres minor.

hm k, guess I'll look into it.
I used to perform internal rotations too with cable (as a warmup) but figured they were a waste of time and mainly recruited the pecs.

what do you suggest?

i had a RC tear about 2 years ago from heavy benching that was so bad i could hardly move my arm at all. thats when i started taking care of these.

 

[Sesshomaru]

hm k, guess I'll look into it.
I used to perform internal rotations too with cable (as a warmup) but figured they were a waste of time and mainly recruited the pecs.

what do you suggest?

i had a RC tear about 2 years ago from heavy benching that was so bad i could hardly move my arm at all. thats when i started taking care of these.

Without knowing you or what exactly was torn and how, its hard to prescribe, but you could read the following and ask yourself if youre implementing these things:

**broken link removed**
**broken link removed**
**broken link removed**

Additionally, I like the side lying abduction in this article (Im not a fan of the cuban press):

**broken link removed**

 

[Sesshomaru]

hm k, guess I'll look into it.
I used to perform internal rotations too with cable (as a warmup) but figured they were a waste of time and mainly recruited the pecs.

what do you suggest?

i had a RC tear about 2 years ago from heavy benching that was so bad i could hardly move my arm at all. thats when i started taking care of these.

Without knowing you or what exactly was torn and how, its hard to prescribe, but you could read the following and ask yourself if youre implementing these things:

**broken link removed**
**broken link removed**
**broken link removed**

Additionally, I like the side lying abduction in this article (Im not a fan of the cuban press):

**broken link removed**

 

[oldfella]

The general problem with shoulders and as sess has pointed out is the fact that we train chest very heavy, we train shoulders very heavy, most will train back very heavy but allow the shoulder girdle to glide forward, thus causing internal rotation or forward sloping shoulders. Working on rear delts, rhomboids, traps and erectors can pay big dividends for your shoulders. Not enough emphasis is placed on these groups. Rotator work will help keep the shoulder in it's capsule where it belongs, but hey sometimes we just get injured, it happens. The trick is to minimize the damage and be proactive and not let it happen again.

 

[flexmaster]

speaking of rotator cuff/shoulder health

here's my 2 cents:
- your pull to push ratio during your workouts should be about 3:1...meaning you do 3 to 4 sets of chest, you should be doing 9 to 12 sets for upper back.

- you HAVE to stretch. lats, chest, and internal rotation are the priorities. everyone knows how to stretch the chest (in my opinion your arm should be at a 45 degree angle for the most chest stretch, not 90 degree), lats (and inevitably some chest) should be stretch with the Prayer Stretch (which also increases thoracic spine mobility...very needed and helpful in shoulder health). internal rotation should be stretched with the Sleeper Stretch. if you have shoulder problems, 9 times out of 10 this stretch with help/cure it.

- you need to increase scapular adduction strength. to do this we need to strengthen rhomboids, middle traps, lower traps. these are probably the easiest to describe on here...they are not the ones we use, but they are the simpler variations.
-----rhomboids/middle traps: T exercise lie face down on a ball/bench, keep your arms straight and do a rear delt fly with your thumbs up the whole time. pause for 2-3 sec. at the top, then back down.
----- and the Bent T exercise. same thing as the T exercise, only this time your arms are bent at a 90 degree angle.
-----lower traps: Y exercise. same thing as the T exercise only this time instead of your arms coming out at a 90 degree angle from your body, they should come out at a 45 degree angle above your head (not toward your waist)
----- FACE PULLS! these are an EXCELLENT exercise...but very uncommon. very different from a normal row because of the position and action of the scapulae and humerus.

 

[full_belly]

This is called a shoulder dislocate and I wouldnt train anybody to do it.

I think you miss understanding the exercise, check it out on intensemuscle before casting ity aside,

READ- it it to stop impingement though inflexibility, when doping it there is alot of wrist rotation to help the movement-not akin to dislocation.

there are literraly dozens of guys on intense muscle ebvenm on here that attest to no longer having shoulder probs after this light pumping movement

 

[inoverdrive]

I think you miss understanding the exercise, check it out on intensemuscle before casting ity aside,

READ- it it to stop impingement though inflexibility, when doping it there is alot of wrist rotation to help the movement-not akin to dislocation.

there are literraly dozens of guys on intense muscle ebvenm on here that attest to no longer having shoulder probs after this light pumping movement

Thanks for helping with that. I dont think i worded it to good.

 

[Sesshomaru]

I think you miss understanding the exercise, check it out on intensemuscle before casting ity aside,

READ- it it to stop impingement though inflexibility, when doping it there is alot of wrist rotation to help the movement-not akin to dislocation.

there are literraly dozens of guys on intense muscle ebvenm on here that attest to no longer having shoulder probs after this light pumping movement

If Im misunderstanding, then can anyone post a video or picture of the movement?

 

[inoverdrive]

Here is the link from intensemuscle if it helps any.

**broken link removed**

 

[bigdfk]

Thanks for the information guys, this has been helpful. I'm going to get the RC exercises in when I can. I generally train pretty smart when it comes to stretching / form / balance of exercises so this will be one more thing for me to consider.

 

[m.montoya]

here's my 2 cents:

----- FACE PULLS! these are an EXCELLENT exercise...but very uncommon. very different from a normal row because of the position and action of the scapulae and humerus.

Face pulls are a great exercise and way too unheard of like you said,bro.Do you do them on the pulldown as well pulling to forehead/nose area?As a powerlifter,I do these every week as a bench assistance exercise.