safety issue with 97% or 98% or 99% raw powders

[BA69]

Good post.

But, I have to disagree with you on this point. (no pun)

The melting point will tell you the purity of a compound in two ways: the relative temperature of the melting point, and also the range of beginning to melt through completely melted.

A pure compound will have a range between 1-2 degrees of the actual melting point. While a mixture of compounds will drag that range out to several degrees based upon the melting point and the amount of the impurity.

Even if the impurity has a similar meling point, it's presence will disrupt the lattice of the target compound causing a slightly lower beginning point, as well as a larger range until the entire sample is melted.

Hope this helps.

I know what you are saying, but it's hard to tell for the untrained eye. It happens fairly quickly and if you don't know what to look for, its not exactly obvious. I've done a fair bit of melting point testing, and I still have trouble with it. Practice makes perfect, I guess. When you say a slightly lower beginning, I`ve seen that happen many times. Would you need a melting point apparatus which is accurate at 0.1C or is 1C enough to capture the change? You really think a minor trace impurity like a heavy metal is enough to disrupt the crystal structure of the sample enough for it to be captured by a typical melting point apparatus? I`m not debating with you, btw, I`m honestly interested in your answer.

COA from China means ziltch...nothing at all. I've received a COA indicating 98.5% and it would come back at 92%. I've received a COA once, and the product was inactive.

 

[Scrawny1]

I know what you are saying, but it's hard to tell for the untrained eye. It happens fairly quickly and if you don't know what to look for, its not exactly obvious. I've done a fair bit of melting point testing, and I still have trouble with it. Practice makes perfect, I guess. When you say a slightly lower beginning, I`ve seen that happen many times. Would you need a melting point apparatus which is accurate at 0.1C or is 1C enough to capture the change? You really think a minor trace impurity like a heavy metal is enough to disrupt the crystal structure of the sample enough for it to be captured by a typical melting point apparatus? I`m not debating with you, btw, I`m honestly interested in your answer.

COA from China means ziltch...nothing at all. I've received a COA indicating 98.5% and it would come back at 92%. I've received a COA once, and the product was inactive.

Yes, you're right...

Melting point instrumentation that can detect a 0.1C change would be sufficient to determine the purity of (and verify the separation of) the product from other biochemical compounds as well as fractions of protein structures.

It would not detect trace amounts of heavy metals, though.

However when a product is 98% pure, that implies that 2% are impurities. TRACE amounts of ANYTHING will not be as high as 1% or 2%.
That's a huge amount for metallic contamination. Consider that a trace amount would be 0.001% for example rather than 1%.

 

[Scrawny1]

I know what you are saying, but it's hard to tell for the untrained eye. It happens fairly quickly and if you don't know what to look for, its not exactly obvious. I've done a fair bit of melting point testing, and I still have trouble with it. Practice makes perfect, I guess. When you say a slightly lower beginning, I`ve seen that happen many times. Would you need a melting point apparatus which is accurate at 0.1C or is 1C enough to capture the change? You really think a minor trace impurity like a heavy metal is enough to disrupt the crystal structure of the sample enough for it to be captured by a typical melting point apparatus? I`m not debating with you, btw, I`m honestly interested in your answer.

COA from China means ziltch...nothing at all. I've received a COA indicating 98.5% and it would come back at 92%. I've received a COA once, and the product was inactive.

Lol...

I hope the folks making these compounds aren't "untrained"!




(j/k all.... the sponsors I've dealt with have all been very professional)

 

[Barenucks]

I know what you are saying, but it's hard to tell for the untrained eye. It happens fairly quickly and if you don't know what to look for, its not exactly obvious. I've done a fair bit of melting point testing, and I still have trouble with it. Practice makes perfect, I guess. When you say a slightly lower beginning, I`ve seen that happen many times. Would you need a melting point apparatus which is accurate at 0.1C or is 1C enough to capture the change? You really think a minor trace impurity like a heavy metal is enough to disrupt the crystal structure of the sample enough for it to be captured by a typical melting point apparatus? I`m not debating with you, btw, I`m honestly interested in your answer.

COA from China means ziltch...nothing at all. I've received a COA indicating 98.5% and it would come back at 92%. I've received a COA once, and the product was inactive.

you have to raise the temps slowly somewhere in the 1-2minute per 1 degree c. DO NOT stir. also use a mercury thermometer. your eyes will see if you are looking closely. then filter through a real filter.....not coffee filters, mcdonalds napkins, girlfriends underwear etc; then, inspect your filter closely. you will see remnense of chinese funk.

the chinese are communist so all that shit is made under the same roof....but different names. they are old school but efficient. maybe too efficient. and they have the absolute worst quality control methods. i have had missionary friends who have told some stories.

just consider all of these things and invest in safety supplies and tools.

 

[Barenucks]

Yes, you're right...

Melting point instrumentation that can detect a 0.1C change would be sufficient to determine the purity of (and verify the separation of) the product from other biochemical compounds as well as fractions of protein structures.

It would not detect trace amounts of heavy metals, though.

However when a product is 98% pure, that implies that 2% are impurities. TRACE amounts of ANYTHING will not be as high as 1% or 2%.
That's a huge amount for metallic contamination. Consider that a trace amount would be 0.001% for example rather than 1%.

0.001%? hell, thats not so bad. paint chips are much more dangerous

 

[Scrawny1]

0.001%? hell, thats not so bad. paint chips are much more dangerous

Lol...i know. Is it too much to ask for Unleaded peptides???

 

[hikneeken]

My thought on this is , you have to get to know your source. I know for a fact that my source use nothing but the best quality raws and they triple filter every mg of anything produced . I know that doesn't eliminate heavy metals, but it will make a bacteria free product. My source will send COA reports on raws if asked for. I feel very comfortable with them. God bless you. Minister.

yes but are the COA on actual paper or is it a pdf , spreadsheet type of COA
i was talking to a chinese supplier and he actually told me those COA mean nothing he could make one to make me feel better or i could just order a small sample and find out real world results

 

[BA69]

Yes, you're right...

Melting point instrumentation that can detect a 0.1C change would be sufficient to determine the purity of (and verify the separation of) the product from other biochemical compounds as well as fractions of protein structures.

It would not detect trace amounts of heavy metals, though.

However when a product is 98% pure, that implies that 2% are impurities. TRACE amounts of ANYTHING will not be as high as 1% or 2%.
That's a huge amount for metallic contamination. Consider that a trace amount would be 0.001% for example rather than 1%.

Okay, well that was my problem. My melting point apparatus was only accurate to 1C. I paid $1500 for it, however

EDIT: I just checked online, the 0.1C accurate melting point apparatus is over 7,000

 

[toddcdozer]

I would redistill any chinese raw with methanol and hope for the best. Not a lot more you can do.

 

[Scrawny1]

Okay, well that was my problem. My melting point apparatus was only accurate to 1C. I paid $1500 for it, however

EDIT: I just checked online, the 0.1C accurate melting point apparatus is over 7,000

Yikes!!

Just Audit a chem class at a local university and test your stuff all semester for a few hundred bucks.

 

[BA69]

Yikes!!

Just Audit a chem class at a local university and test your stuff all semester for a few hundred bucks.

I just started Organic Chem 1 and first lab was melting point I was asking the teacher a lot of questions, lol 255lbs Shaved head mofo asking him questions about product purity, lol Should be an interesting summer class. He said you can tell seperation up to about 99% with a machine that has 0.01C accuracy.

Someone mentioned methanol...yeah. Not a good choice!!! Unless you want to risk blindness, stick with everclear + water.

 

[Bleed]

Glad to see i'm not alone! I'll be starting organic chem in the fall. Interesting stuff. You're a chem major, right?

I just started Organic Chem 1 and first lab was melting point I was asking the teacher a lot of questions, lol 255lbs Shaved head mofo asking him questions about product purity, lol Should be an interesting summer class. He said you can tell seperation up to about 99% with a machine that has 0.01C accuracy.

Someone mentioned methanol...yeah. Not a good choice!!! Unless you want to risk blindness, stick with everclear + water.

 

[BA69]

Glad to see i'm not alone! I'll be starting organic chem in the fall. Interesting stuff. You're a chem major, right?

Yes. I'm older than I should be, but better late than never. Someone asked me today, as I was coming in if I was the teacher, lol.

 

[TeknoViking]

^^^^bro its never to late to go back to school good for you man. We all have different journeys.

 

[Bleed]

I'm in the same boat too. Better late than never. Realistically there is no way i would have chosen the chem path in my late teens. I'm glad i'm doing it now though!

Yes. I'm older than I should be, but better late than never. Someone asked me today, as I was coming in if I was the teacher, lol.

 

[musclechaos]

you have to raise the temps slowly somewhere in the 1-2minute per 1 degree c. DO NOT stir. also use a mercury thermometer. your eyes will see if you are looking closely. then filter through a real filter.....not coffee filters, mcdonalds napkins, girlfriends underwear etc; then, inspect your filter closely. you will see remnense of chinese funk.

the chinese are communist so all that shit is made under the same roof....but different names. they are old school but efficient. maybe too efficient. and they have the absolute worst quality control methods. i have had missionary friends who have told some stories.

just consider all of these things and invest in safety supplies and tools.

You're right. The quality of you powder will show when you run it through a filter. Using a syringe filter, you can pull back on it and see how much trash is in your sample. Eye opener if your not filtering.

 

[Scrawny1]

I just started Organic Chem 1 and first lab was melting point I was asking the teacher a lot of questions, lol 255lbs Shaved head mofo asking him questions about product purity, lol Should be an interesting summer class. He said you can tell seperation up to about 99% with a machine that has 0.01C accuracy.

Someone mentioned methanol...yeah. Not a good choice!!! Unless you want to risk blindness, stick with everclear + water.

Methanol os fine...just heat your product to evaporate the solvent and you're ok.

Wait until you get to organic synthesis....you're going to get all kinds of ideas!

 

[Mad-Bull]

Methanol os fine...just heat your product to evaporate the solvent and you're ok.

Wait until you get to organic synthesis....you're going to get all kinds of ideas!

You guys are making me consider taking a minor in Chem, you think a degree in this might enable someone to produce there own raws?

 

[BA69]

Methanol os fine...just heat your product to evaporate the solvent and you're ok.

Wait until you get to organic synthesis....you're going to get all kinds of ideas!

Oh, I have plenty of experience in Organic Synthesis. I had lots of ideas and I'm still serving a 6 year sentence for it, on parole right now. It was either get a job or go to school. I chose to go to school.

Mad-Bull, making raws is not that hard (in terms of the chemistry.) A minor in chem is enough but trial and error is needed. I did it without any real schooling. You need extreme determination and hours of studying to get it done. I would read a book or article, and understand perhaps 10% of it. But I would still try again until I understood more. You need to be able to find the info you need as well, which is a skill set you need to develop.

What is hard is getting the right equipment, the chemicals needed, the location... All without getting arrested. You are talking very high risk and a fairly large investment. I'm not in the US, but I know the laws are not in your favor on this. Huge prison time is handed out for this kind of thing even if you plan on making 10g of Testosterone for yourself. I was going to try this before I was arrested, I had 17a hydroxyprogesterone which I bought from Sigma Aldrich, and everything else I needed to make Testosterone Enanthate for myself.

Making research quantities is one thing, but to scale up is a whole other process. You need to understand thermodynamics, process chemistry and a little chemical engineering. What works for a 25g reaction is likely not going to work for a 500g reaction. If you just go at it like I did in the beginning, you'll understand the term "runaway reaction".

Also, playing around in clandestine chemistry is extremely addictive. Be warned. I was not addicted to any substance but the process had me hooked. It's extremely rewarding mentally and the adrenaline rush was simply unchallenged for me. I was completely obsessed with completing my synthesis and I lost all concept of morality or even self perservation. It's weird to say, but it wasn't even about the money really. I hope to bring some of this drive and experience into legal chemistry.

It's not something that I would encourage anyone to ever attempt. I have very few friends now, since they learned of my past activities. Very few will associate with me. A majority of my family has disowned me for the most part. I have to live under scrutiny for the rest of my life.

If you plan on doing it, keep it very small, personal use, and take your time and research.

 

[Scrawny1]

You guys are making me consider taking a minor in Chem, you think a degree in this might enable someone to produce there own raws?

Organic Chemistry will teach you how to change the functional groups of various compounds as well as identify and purify products.

Production, however, is via recombinant methods and bioreactors. So, a blend of biology and chemistry...then you'll need some clinical training for aseptic technique.

All in all, it might be cheaper just to buy the raw materials abroad and then purify your final product.