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sarms ban , what is freedom anymore

iceman74

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There's already a thread going about this, bud... Good looking out though 😎
 

johnjuanb1

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Better stock up on SARMS before Trump signs the bill. I’d expect them to also ban MK-677 and GW-501526 since they’re ignorant and consider those SARMS even though they aren’t. :(
 

Mike Arnold

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Better stock up on SARMS before Trump signs the bill. I’d expect them to also ban MK-677 and GW-501526 since they’re ignorant and consider those SARMS even though they aren’t. :(

I thought the same thing at first, but they are not on the proposed ban list. All the SARMs are on there, but MK and GW are safe for now. It's appears they actually thought things through for a change and aren't trying to ban things that aren't actually SARMs.
 

r0idb0y

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well some good news for a change , Thanks Mike.
I noticed enhanced having a fire sale as well...
 

johnjuanb1

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I thought the same thing at first, but they are not on the proposed ban list. All the SARMs are on there, but MK and GW are safe for now. It's appears they actually thought things through for a change and aren't trying to ban things that aren't actually SARMs.

That’s amazing news! Heck, i expected all research items and peptides to be on the list. Thank you for the great news, Mike! 😀
 

johnjuanb1

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I thought the same thing at first, but they are not on the proposed ban list. All the SARMs are on there, but MK and GW are safe for now. It's appears they actually thought things through for a change and aren't trying to ban things that aren't actually SARMs.

Mike, when does the ban go into effect?
Is it just waiting on Trump’s signature?
 

Tim Zane

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Trump is an OG. He won't sign it... [emoji3]

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

aphextwin

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Trump isn't going to sign it. He has better things to do.
 

Mike Arnold

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Mike, when does the ban go into effect?
Is it just waiting on Trump’s signature?

If it goes into effect, it still has to make it through the senate and President, so it should be at least a little while.

I hope Trump reads it and says "Really? Is that the kind of shit you think our country should be focused on when we have 1,000 far more pressing problems to attend to?"...and then throws it in the trash.
 

r0idb0y

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if you have seen this what are your thoughts?

he seems to know what he is talking about ??

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtX-FAY4h9o"]The End of the Road for SARMS - YouTube[/ame]
 

Mike Arnold

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if you have seen this what are your thoughts?

he seems to know what he is talking about ??

The End of the Road for SARMS - YouTube

He isn't saying anything new. I do agree with him, however, that SARMs are very likely going to be gone.

It sucks, but for bodybuilders it is not a big loss. Steroids and SARMs are both androgen receptor agonists, so even if SARMs go, steroids will still be around for those who want to go the UGL route.

It would suck more if MK and GW get banned, as those compounds can't be replaced with AAS.
 

Mike Arnold

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It's unambigously a SARM, so yes it will be on the list.

It wasn't on the list that was introduced to Congress (this doesn't surprise me because it's not actually a SARM), so unless it gets added at some point in the future it won't be included. :)
 

MyNameIsJeff

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It wasn't on the list that was introduced to Congress (this doesn't surprise me because it's not actually a SARM), so unless it gets added at some point in the future it won't be included. :)

The myogenic differentiation of C2C12 myoblast cells is induced by the novel androgen receptor (AR) partial agonist, (17α,20E)-17,20-[(1-methoxyethylidene)bis-(oxy)]-3-oxo-19-norpregna-4,20-diene-21-carboxylic acid methyl ester (YK11), as well as by dihydrotestosterone (DHT). YK11 is a selective androgen receptor modulator (SARM), which activates AR without the N/C interaction. In this study, we further investigated the mechanism by which YK11 induces myogenic differentiation of C2C12 cells. The induction of key myogenic regulatory factors (MRFs), such as myogenic differentiation factor (MyoD), myogenic factor 5 (Myf5) and myogenin, was more significant in the presence of YK11 than in the presence of DHT. YK11 treatment of C2C12 cells, but not DHT, induced the expression of follistatin (Fst), and the YK11-mediated myogenic differentiation was reversed by anti-Fst antibody. These results suggest that the induction of Fst is important for the anabolic effect of YK11.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23995658

YK11 may have additional effects that are not mediated through the AR, but it's still a SARM, in that it (selectively) modulates the AR.
 

Mike Arnold

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23995658

YK11 may have additional effects that are not mediated through the AR, but it's still a SARM, in that it (selectively) modulates the AR.

It has a steroidal molecular backbone and therefore can't be classified as a SARM.

SARM's aren't classified as such by their degree of selectivity for a certain tissue(s), but by their molecular structure in concert with selectivity for specific tissues, which can vary greatly depending on the chemist's intended effects for that specific compound.

If we were able to classify compounds as SARM's based solely on their selectivity for certain tissues, we could technically classify EVERY steroid as a SARM, as all testosterone derivatives display more or less selectivity for the various bodily tissues in comparison to testosterone.

This is why some scientists refer to AAS as "SARM-like", rather than SARMs. Many steroids have been referred to as SARM-like in the literature at this point, including trenbolone, nandrolone, etc. As we all know, a drug like trenbolone is anything but selective when it comes to muscle or bone, yet it still possesses strong "SARM-like" selectivity for particular tissues (despite activating AR receptors in unwanted tissues), causing scientists to begin referring to trenbolone as "SARM-like".

When referring to the term selectivity itself, a compound does not necessarily have to possess high a high degree of selectivity for muscle tissue or bone...nor does it even need to avoid activating AR's in unwanted tissues. Rather, it simply needs to possess a higher degree of selectivity for the target tissue(s) over the majority of unwanted tissues, while having a molecular backbone dissimilar to traditional AAS. This means that we could technically classify ANY AR activating chemical as "SARM-like" depending on the researcher's developmental goals. Because of this, we don't define SARMs as SARMs simply because of their selectivity for particular tissues. Other elements need to be present, or not present. In this case, the presence of a traditional steroidal molecular structure prevents YK-11 from being classified as a "SARM" according to the term's original definition.

Many chemicals currently designated as SARMs display a high degree of activity in unwanted tissues, while simultaneously displaying a relatively low degree of activity in muscle and bone (in comparison to testosterone). S4 is a good example. Yet, they are still referred to as SARM's because they possess some degree of selectivity for the target tissue(s) over most non-target tissues, while having a molecular structure which differs from traditional AAS.

Any drug that possesses a classic 4 ring steroidal molecular structure cannot be classified as a SARM. However, it can still be referred to as "SARM-like".
 
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MyNameIsJeff

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It has a steroidal molecular backbone and therefore can't be classified as a SARM.

SARM's aren't classified as such by their degree of selectivity for a certain tissue(s), but by their molecular structure in concert with selectivity for specific tissues, which can vary greatly depending on the chemist's intended effects for that specific compound.

If we were able to classify compounds as SARM's based solely on their selectivity for certain tissues, we could technically classify EVERY steroid as a SARM, as all testosterone derivatives display more or less selectivity for the various bodily tissues in comparison to testosterone.

This is why some scientists refer to AAS as "SARM-like", rather than SARMs. Many steroids have been referred to as SARM-like in the literature at this point, including trenbolone, nandrolone, etc. As we all know, a drug like trenbolone is anything but selective when it comes to muscle or bone, yet it still possesses strong "SARM-like" selectivity for particular tissues (despite activating AR receptors in unwanted tissues), causing scientists to begin referring to trenbolone as "SARM-like".

When referring to the term selectivity itself, a compound does not necessarily have to possess high a high degree of selectivity for muscle tissue or bone...nor does it even need to avoid activating AR's in unwanted tissues. Rather, it simply needs to possess a higher degree of selectivity for the target tissue(s) over the majority of unwanted tissues, while having a molecular backbone dissimilar to traditional AAS. This means that we could technically classify ANY AR activating chemical as "SARM-like" depending on the researcher's developmental goals. Because of this, we don't define SARMs as SARMs simply because of their selectivity for particular tissues. Other elements need to be present, or not present. In this case, the presence of a traditional steroidal molecular structure prevents YK-11 from being classified as a "SARM" according to the term's original definition.

Many chemicals currently designated as SARMs display a high degree of activity in unwanted tissues, while simultaneously displaying a relatively low degree of activity in muscle and bone (in comparison to testosterone). S4 is a good example. Yet, they are still referred to as SARM's because they possess some degree of selectivity for the target tissue(s) over most non-target tissues, while having a molecular structure which differs from traditional AAS.

Any drug that possesses a classic 4 ring steroidal molecular structure cannot be classified as a SARM. However, it can still be referred to as "SARM-like".
Thanks for the great explanation. I guess it makes sense that we should only call non-steroidal compounds SARMs since otherwise any steroid would qualify.

When looking at the definition of SERMs, it seems that it is much more restrictive in that it requires both agonist and antagonist activity depending on the tissue. To my knowledge, (non-steroidal) SARMs like MK2866 on the other hand have purely agonist activity everywhere, and their selectivity is restricted to causing less AR activation in the prostate than elsewhere. So if we were to strictly transfer the definition of SERMs over to the AR, non of the 'SARMs' we know today would qualify :confused:
 

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