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Serious question about giving dogs AAS

PharmGrown

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First off.... I am not some idiot trying to make a super dog or anything stupid. I love my dog and I feel sorry for him. All that have negative things to say feel free not to post in this thread because I already know this is a controversial issue that is going to be subject to flaming. With that said...

My dog is a 16 year old yellow lab. He has begun to have arthritis so bad that you can tell when he walks he is in great pain and it hurts him and takes a long time to sit and stand up. Putting him to sleep is a last resort. I would like to improve his quality of life, even if its only temporary. He has been my best friend for 16 years and if I can help his last few months, years, however long be better then I will do that. I have been reading that dogs are regularly prescribed Deca for joint relief, and I know the effects of deca on a human body. I have also read that dogs respond to a much lower dose of AAS than humans, however I'm not having any luck finding what that dose is.

My question is, for anyone that can respond intelligently or has experience with this, what would be a good amount to give a dog to make him feel better? Or if you think this is a bad idea, then why? I was thinking of 25-50mg a week of Deca and possibly 25-50mg Test E. The test E is up for serious consideration. I'm pretty well set on the deca because of its wide veterinary use and good feedback on animal arthritis unless someone has good reasons against it. Anyone who has actually given AAS to animals please respond with your results. Thanks all in advance for your help.
 

plang

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It's not arthritis but it at least gives you a safe range.....


Effect of Nandrolone Decanoate on Disuse Muscle Atrophy and Bone Healing in Dogs
S.J. Yun; J.H. Lim; Y.E. Byeon; O.K. Kweon


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18284919
This study was performed to evaluate the effects of nandrolone decanoate (ND) on immobilized skeletal muscle atrophy and on bone healing in dogs.

Twenty adult dogs (3.3kg~5.5kg and 2~4 years) were divided into three groups according to the amount of ND (Deca-Durabolin® 50mg/ml, Hanhwa Co., Korea) administered; no treatment (group A), 1.5mg/kg ND (group B) and 7.5mg/kg ND (group C). The radius was excised 1mm in length with oscillating bone saw just below the pronator teres muscle and fixed with a plate. ND was injected intramuscularly once a week for 8 weeks from the day of surgery. Robert John's bandage was applied to the dogs. Body weight was measured using electric balance and muscle mass with tapeline at proximal one fourth of the antebrachium immediately after surgery, 2, 4 and 8 weeks. Bone healing was evaluated by radiography and histological examination.

The change rates of muscle mass at 8 weeks in the groups A, B and C were -2.75±0.16%, 1.68±0.11% and 1.74±0.48%, compared to the initial muscle mass, respectively. The increments of muscle mass at 4 and 8 weeks were significantly different between control and the treated groups (p<0.05). There was no significant difference between low and high dose treated groups. More fibrous and connective tissue layer between the fractured gaps were appeared in the treated groups, particularly in group C than the control at 4 weeks. However, there was no difference in evaluation of bone healing among all groups at 8 weeks.

The present study suggested that ND was effective for immobilized disuse muscle atrophy in dogs.

Speaker Information
(click the speaker's name to view other papers and abstracts submitted by this speaker)
J.H. Lim
 

Tom

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The effects of nandrolone decanoate on rarefying bone tissue.
Dhem A, Ars-Piret N, Waterschoot MP.

Abstract
The effects of nandrolone decanoate on rarefying bone tissue were studied with the aid of microradiography and fluorescence microscopy in tetracycline-labelled preparations of the rabbit calcaneus and the long bones of old dogs. Osteoporosis was induced in the rabbit calcaneus by resecting of the Achilles tendon. In 20 of the 24 rabbits treated with nandrolone decanoate, the osteoporosis observed was less severe than in 8 untreated controls. Furthermore, in comparison with the controls, the signs of active osteogenesis in the treated groups increased systematically. In the old dogs, nandrolone decanoate caused a new opposition, identified by tetracycline labelling, to appear at the periphery of the medullary cavity. All the observations suggest that nandrolone decanoate has a favourable effect on osteogenetic phenomena and probably an inhibitory action on bone resorption. Consequently, nandrolone decanoate is capable of preventing or, at least, of partially correcting losses of bone mass.

PMID: 7408528 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
 

PharmGrown

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Hmm... Thank you for that. Interesting read. He weighs approximately 30kg, so he would need between 45-225mg/wk.
 
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Tom

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An OTC veterinary product called Cosequin is one of the best glucosamine-chondroitin products available in my opinion. Most would assume that it is simply just another of many such products but it also contains a few cofactors that make it more effective. 4-6 caps daily provide an excellent soft tissue nutrient supply.

There are a number of treatments that can be used for soft tissue damage such as arthritis. In particular is the relatively new drug called Cartrophen Vet or pentosan (pentosan polysulphate sodium). This drug is one of the most effective and it even has a very good success rate in 8 out of every 10 dogs! Yup, another veterinary drug has been employed by athletes.

Pentosan can be administered subcutaneous, intramuscularly and locally. It appears to possess some very effectual direct anti-inflammatory activity. Due to its ability to inhibition lytic enzymes, and by increasing synovial fluid viscosity/volume, it acts synergistically with most other chemistry intended for soft tissue repair. Though this means preventative value, pentosan also significantly stimulates chondrocytes while increasing the biosynthesis of proteoglycans, as well as possessing strong fibrinolytic activity (joint matrix parts & pieces and repair activity).

*Though the drug pentosan is available in tablet form as well, my personal experiences have been that the use of the injectable form produces better results.
 

nandrthal

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At the age/breed it sounds like your dog has osteoarthritis issues. I would take him to the vet so they can prescribe him pain meds amongst other things (blood test, radiographs) to see that everyhtin is ok. In my opinion pain management is key here. If your dog is happy his quaility of life, healing and overall well being will significantly improve.

As far as those drugs are concerened here are the resources:
Nandrolone

Injectable anabolic steroid; may be useful to stimulate erythropoiesis or to stimulate appetite

Contraindications: hepatic dysfunction, hypercalcemia, history of myocardial infarction, pituitary insufficiency, prostate carcinoma, mammary carcinoma, benign prostatic hypertrophy and during the nephrotic stage of nephritis

Adverse Effects: sodium, calcium, potassium, water, chloride and phosphate retention; hepatotoxicity, behavioral (androgenic) changes and reproductive abnormalities (oligospermia, estrus suppression)

Known teratogen




Pharmacology

Nandrolone exhibits similar actions as other anabolic agents. In the presence of adequate protein and calories, anabolic steroids promote body tissue building processes and can reverse catabolism. As these agents are either derived from or are closely related to testosterone, the anabolics have varying degrees of androgenic effects. Endogenous testosterone release may be suppressed by inhibiting luteinizing hormone (LH). Large doses can impede spermatogenesis by negative feedback inhibition of FSH.

Anabolic steroids can also stimulate erythropoiesis. The mechanism for this effect may occur by stimulating erythropoietic stimulating factor. Anabolics can cause nitrogen, sodium, potassium and phosphorus retention and decrease the urinary excretion of calcium. Many veterinary and human clinicians feel that nandrolone is clinically superior to other anabolics in its ability to stimulate erythropoiesis. It is believed that nandrolone may enhance red cell counts by directly stimulating red cell precursors in the bone marrow, increasing red cell 2,3-diphosphoglycerate and increasing erythropoietin production in the kidney.

Uses/Indications

The principle use of nandrolone in veterinary medicine has been to stimulate erythropoiesis in patients with certain anemias (e.g., secondary to renal failure, aplastic anemias). It has also been suggested for use as an appetite stimulant.



Contraindications/Precautions

No specific recommendations were located for this agent in veterinary species.



Drug/Laboratory Interactions

Concentrations of protein bound iodine (PBI) can be decreased in patients receiving androgen/anabolic therapy, but the clinical significance of this is probably not important. Androgen/anabolic agents can decrease amounts of thyroxine-binding globulin and decrease total T4 concentrations and increase resin uptake of T3 and T4. Free thyroid hormones are unaltered and, clinically, there is no evidence of dysfunction.

Both creatinine and creatine excretion can be decreased by anabolic steroids. Anabolic steroids can increase the urinary excretion of 17-ketosteroids.

Androgenic/anabolic steroids may alter blood glucose levels. Androgenic/-anabolic steroids may suppress clotting factors II, V, VII, and X. Anabolic agents can affect liver function tests (BSP retention, SGOT, SGPT, bilirubin, and alkaline phosphatase).

Doses

Dogs

For treatment of anemia in patients with chronic renal failure:

1. 1-1.5 mg/kg IM once weekly; may require 2-3 months to achieve beneficial effects (Polzin and Osborne 1985)

2. 5 mg/kg IM (maximum of 200 mg/week) every 2-3 weeks (Ross et al. 1988)

For treatment of metabolic and endocrine anemias:

1. 5 mg/kg IM once weekly (maximum of 200 mg); most resolve with correction of underlying disease process (Maggio-Price 1988)

For aplastic anemia:

1. 1-3 mg/kg IM weekly (Weiss 1986)

As an appetite stimulant:

1. 5 mg/kg IM (max. 200 mg/week) weekly (Macy and Ralston 1989)



Testosterone Cypionate | Testosterone Enanthate | Testosterone Propionate

Prescriber Highlights

Principle endogenous androgen used primarily for the treatment of testosterone-responsive urinary incontinence in neutered male dogs/cats; in bovine medicine to produce an estrus-detector animal

Contraindications: known hypersensitivity to the drug; prostate carcinoma. Caution: renal, cardiac or hepatic dysfunction

Adverse Effects: Uncommon, but perianal adenomas, perineal hernias, prostatic disorders and behavior changes possible



Pharmacology

The principle endogenous androgenic steroid, testosterone is responsible for many secondary sex characteristic of the male as well as the maturation and growth of the male reproductive organs and increasing libido.

Testosterone has anabolic activity with resultant increased protein anabolism and decreased protein catabolism. Testosterone causes nitrogen, sodium, potassium and phosphorus retention and decreases the urinary excretion of calcium. Nitrogen balance is improved only when an adequate intake of both calories and protein occurs.

By stimulating erythropoietic stimulating factor, testosterone can stimulate the production of red blood cells. Large doses of exogenous testosterone can inhibit spermatogenesis through a negative feedback mechanism inhibiting luteinizing hormone (LH).

Testosterone may help maintain the normal urethral muscle tone and the integrity of the urethral mucosa in male dogs. It may also be necessary to prevent some types of dermatoses.

Uses/Indications

The use of injectable esters of testosterone in veterinary medicine is limited primarily to its use in dogs (and perhaps cats) for the treatment of testosterone-responsive urinary incontinence in neutered males. Testosterone has been used to treat a rare form of dermatitis (exhibited by bilateral alopecia) in neutered male dogs. These drugs are also used in bovine medicine to produce an estrus-detector (teaser) animal in cull cows, heifers, and steers.

The use of testosterone to increase libido, treat hypogonadism, aspermia and infertility in domestic animals has been disappointing.

Testosterone is metabolized in the liver and is, with its metabolites, excreted in the urine (90%) and the feces (6%). The plasma half-life of testosterone has been reported to be between 10-100 minutes in humans. The plasma half-life of testosterone cypionate has been reported to be 8 days.

Contraindications/Precautions

Testosterone therapy is contraindicated in patients with known hypersensitivity to the drug or prostate carcinoma. It should be used with caution in patients with renal, cardiac or hepatic dysfunction.

Adverse Effects/Warnings

Adverse effects are reportedly uncommon when injectable testosterone products are used in male dogs to treat hormone-responsive incontinence. Perianal adenomas, perineal hernias, prostatic disorders and behavior changes are all possible, however. Behavioral changes have been reported in cats. Polycythemia has been reported in humans receiving high dosages of testosterone. High dosages or chronic usage may result in oligospermia or infertility in intact males.



Drug Interactions

Testosterone administered with oral anticoagulants may cause increased bleeding in some patients. Diligent monitoring is necessary if patients are receiving androgens and oral anticoagulants. Anticoagulant dosage adjustments may be necessary when adding or discontinuing androgen therapy.

Diabetic patients receiving insulin may need dosage adjustments if androgen therapy is added or discontinued. Androgens may decrease blood glucose and decrease insulin requirements.

Androgens may enhance the edema that can be associated with ACTH or adrenal steroid therapy.

Drug/Laboratory Interactions

Concentrations of protein bound iodine (PBI) can be decreased in patients receiving testosterone therapy, but the clinical significance of this is probably not important. Androgen agents can decrease amounts of thyroxine-binding globulin and decrease total T4concentrations and increase resin uptake of T3 and T4. Free thyroid hormones are unaltered and clinically, there is no evidence of dysfunction.

Both creatinine and creatine excretion can be decreased by testosterone. Testosterone can increase the urinary excretion of 17-ketosteroids.

Androgenic/anabolic steroids may alter blood glucose levels.

Androgenic/anabolic steroids may suppress clotting factors II, V, VII, and X.

Doses

Dogs

For testosterone-responsive urinary incontinence (may be used with phenylpropanolamine):

1. Testosterone propionate: approximately 2 mg/kg IM or SC 3 times per week. Testosterone cypionate: 200 mg IM once per month (LaBato 1988), (Polzin and Osborne 1985)

2. Testosterone propionate: 2.2 mg/kg IM q2-3 days. Testosterone cypionate: 2.2 mg/kg IM once per month (Moreau and Lappin 1989), (Chew, DiBartola, and Fenner 1986)

3. Testosterone cypionate: 2.2 mg/kg IM q4-8 weeks (Lane 2002b)

For estrus control: Testosterone enanthate or cypionate 0.5 mg/kg IM once every 5 days or methyltestosterone tablets 25 mg PO twice a week (Note this dose is for Greyhound-sized dogs) (Purswell 1999)

To reduce mammary gland enlargement seen in pseudopregnancy: Testosterone enanthate or cypionate 0.5-1 mg/kg IM once (Purswell 1999)



Anyway hope this helps... Cosequin is great as well
 

wasp

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cosequin ds 250

cosequin ds 250 items - Get great deals on Pet Supplies items on eBay.com!


the ds is double strength get the chewable, also, studies have shown cosequin is much more effective when coupled with fish oil, i dont give him mine, but i get the omega 3 in wal-mart, he gets 2 cosequin and 2 g fish oil morning and night, hes a 14 yr ld yellow lab, and can still go up and down stairs, with help, but im sure if hes still here in 2 yrs like yours, hell be much worse, not much you can do, it sux i know, he needs help standing up, falls down alot, but doesnt make a sound so my guess is hes in no pain yet


watch out with arthritis meds the vet wants to give you, they are bad for a liver that could all ready fail at any point, course the studies arent conclusive enuff for the vet to not give them to you, i wont play the odds with my dog
 
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nandrthal

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Omega 3 also a great addition! The fact that your dog is not bearing weight and is reluctant to move is enough indication that your dog is in pain. Labradors in particular are tough SOB's and may never give you an indicator to show pain (yelping, depressed). Chronic pain has shown to increase cortisol levels significantly which over time can lead to other problems. Defenitely get a blood test to rule out kidney or liver problems and get those poor dogs on some pain meds!
 

phatrr

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Have you first investigated Adequan and Cartrophen, drugs which have quite a bit of science behind them showing that they can reverse osteo-arthritis? And they can be obtained legally through your vet.

That's what I do for our older dogs.
 

PharmGrown

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Have you first investigated Adequan and Cartrophen, drugs which have quite a bit of science behind them showing that they can reverse osteo-arthritis? And they can be obtained legally through your vet.

That's what I do for our older dogs.
No I haven't seriously looked into either of those other then here and there while researching effects of ND. I will look into both of them.
 

emeric delczeg

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Omega 3 also a great addition! The fact that your dog is not bearing weight and is reluctant to move is enough indication that your dog is in pain. Labradors in particular are tough SOB's and may never give you an indicator to show pain (yelping, depressed). Chronic pain has shown to increase cortisol levels significantly which over time can lead to other problems. Defenitely get a blood test to rule out kidney or liver problems and get those poor dogs on some pain meds!
Yes, chronic pain it will increase cortisol levels.
 

Phidias

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Since I'm not qualified at all to answer your question, I won't give you any advice... just say that I think I'd do the same in your shoes. He's 16 years old, so there's not much to lose trying anyways. :)

Whatever medicine you decide to put him on, I sincerely hope his quality of life will get better and he makes it till the end without any unnecessary suffering.

Good luck!
 

emeric delczeg

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First off.... I am not some idiot trying to make a super dog or anything stupid. I love my dog and I feel sorry for him. All that have negative things to say feel free not to post in this thread because I already know this is a controversial issue that is going to be subject to flaming. With that said...

My dog is a 16 year old yellow lab. He has begun to have arthritis so bad that you can tell when he walks he is in great pain and it hurts him and takes a long time to sit and stand up. Putting him to sleep is a last resort. I would like to improve his quality of life, even if its only temporary. He has been my best friend for 16 years and if I can help his last few months, years, however long be better then I will do that. I have been reading that dogs are regularly prescribed Deca for joint relief, and I know the effects of deca on a human body. I have also read that dogs respond to a much lower dose of AAS than humans, however I'm not having any luck finding what that dose is.

My question is, for anyone that can respond intelligently or has experience with this, what would be a good amount to give a dog to make him feel better? Or if you think this is a bad idea, then why? I was thinking of 25-50mg a week of Deca and possibly 25-50mg Test E. The test E is up for serious consideration. I'm pretty well set on the deca because of its wide veterinary use and good feedback on animal arthritis unless someone has good reasons against it. Anyone who has actually given AAS to animals please respond with your results. Thanks all in advance for your help.
Take it in consideration that your pet is 16 years old, that is old age for a dog, so before trying out the deca lat me help your pet with my product, free of charge, you can see information on the product at DOGtor RX or Dogtor Rx K9 Longevity a Natural Remedy for Dog Ailments, I will need your address and I will send you the product.
 

phatrr

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No I haven't seriously looked into either of those other then here and there while researching effects of ND. I will look into both of them.
If you need some resources, feel free to PM me.

By resources, I mean links to studies. Just to be clear.

We've had great success with both of these drugs, in combination with hydrotherapy, in golden retrievers, shepherds, huskies, malamutes, and a few other large breeds.

Very, very low side effects. Very well tolerated.

I hope that you can help your friend.
 

Creation

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is DOGtor-rx similiar to humanofort for humans?
 

FilthyMick

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Wouldnt u want to give him something else like some test in their to improve his quality of life, lets not forget he may be depressed too at 16 yrs old. not to mention deca dick, test is all the more reason. is he neutered? maybe u should give him test man!
 

j4ever

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I would take emeric up on his offer and see how that works for ya,if not go to vet but whatever you do bro please do not let you pet walk around and suffer.
 

FilthyMick

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Its sad when big dogs get old they have a hard time walking and perfoming daily functions, my black lab couldnt control his bladder when he turned about 13, joints were bad u name it. Wish dogs could live atleast twice as long as they normally do, hell would be cool to have a dog live 60 human years.
Who here feeds their dogs the BARF diet - bones and raw food diet???
 
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