severe ED trouble...

[Salzberger]

My last cycle was only 8 weeks of 350mg test e with 25mg of winny ED. I didn't PCT and I was pefectly fine in the sexual department. I took 10 weeks off... I just started my last cycle which is only 250mg of test e e5d and 25mg of proviron ED. Both are pharmaceutical grade (Schering Proviron and Iranian test e). The test is from the same batch that I used before w/o issue. I am now 4.5 weeks in and my dick has COMPLETELY stopped functioning. I cannot even get hard enough for penetration whereas in the past, I could go 2-3 rounds in one hour.

WTF is up with this? THis happened to me once before although not this bad... when I overdid A-Dex and drive my e2 down to 11. Does ayone have any input on this? I can't imagine my e2 being too HIGH after only 4.5 weeks on a little over 300mg of test EW.

I'm ONLY taking proviron and test - no ancillaries.

 

[rubiconman500]

Was there a reason for no PCT on first cycle?

If I remember proviron profile right it should help you in ED department not bring you down... Ive never personally ran i though

 

[shovelhed82]

High estro. Try an AI for a bit.

 

[Salzberger]

Was there a reason for no PCT on first cycle?

If I remember proviron profile right it should help you in ED department not bring you down... Ive never personally ran i though

Yes... I don't like SERMs and IMO it makes no ifference, but I don't want to start that discussion here. I am more concerned with my problem at hand.

 

[Salzberger]

High estro.

Already? I've taking 1000mg test per week in the past with no ancillaries and not had this problem. THis is only 4.5 weeks in! I always tought that estro took time to build... I wanted to rule this out, so I popped .25mg of Dex this morning, but it seems really strange. Hopefully this is it.

 

[shovelhed82]

Things change and 4 weeks is about right.

 

[Salzberger]

Things change and 4 weeks is about right.

What do you mean by this?

 

[shovelhed82]

Already? I've taking 1000mg test per week in the past with no ancillaries and not had this problem. THis is only 4.5 weeks in! I always tought that estro took time to build... I wanted to rule this out, so I popped .25mg of Dex this morning, but it seems really strange. Hopefully this is it.

The test from your last cycle is still aromatizing.(5-6 half-lives, 60-70 days) Your body is trying to adjust.

 

[Salzberger]

The test from your last cycle is still aromatizing.(5-6 half-lives, 60-70 days) Your body is trying to adjust.

I only used 350mg of test e EW on my last cycle and then took 10 weeks off... test e's half life is closer to 6 days, not 10+. This doesn't make any sense to me... and if this were the case, I would've had problems between cycles and I didn't.

 

[shovelhed82]

It's 10.5 days.

 

[shovelhed82]

Maybe you're having prostate problems?

 

[Salzberger]

It's 10.5 days. Maybe you're having prostate problems.?

That 10.5 days gets thrown around a lot on the boards but it is wrong. If you read the insert on an American Test Cyp, the half life is 8-9 days for cypionate, making enanthate even less.

I have battle prostatitis for a couple of years, but never had ED because of it.

 

[Rex Feral]

My last cycle was only 8 weeks of 350mg test e with 25mg of winny ED. I didn't PCT and I was pefectly fine in the sexual department. I took 10 weeks off... I just started my last cycle which is only 250mg of test e e5d and 25mg of proviron ED. Both are pharmaceutical grade (Schering Proviron and Iranian test e). The test is from the same batch that I used before w/o issue. I am now 4.5 weeks in and my dick has COMPLETELY stopped functioning. I cannot even get hard enough for penetration whereas in the past, I could go 2-3 rounds in one hour.

WTF is up with this? THis happened to me once before although not this bad... when I overdid A-Dex and drive my e2 down to 11. Does ayone have any input on this? I can't imagine my e2 being too HIGH after only 4.5 weeks on a little over 300mg of test EW.

I'm ONLY taking proviron and test - no ancillaries.

Obviously only a blood test can tell you what's up. Anything else is pure speculation. If you continue to yo-yo without proper PCT you can be certain you will continue to have these type of issues and it will only get worse as you age. Why people like you come off small doses of T/AAS completely, cold turkey, no PCT, only to get back on a low dose 10 weeks later is beyond me. :banghead: Come off properly or continue T @ 200-300 mg qwk until you can. Unless you ran out, but you said it was from the same batch and even if you did run out that's poor planning. You're not doing yourself any favors w/ the yo-yo act. You are seeing the consequences of it now though.

Rex.

 

[Ehren]

Viagra/Cialis...Get some! First things first, clear your mind. Then address the underlying problem.

To paraphrase Arthur Conan Doyle, "When you eliminate all possibilities, the impossible must be true". So, 4.5 weeks or not, something's clearly wrong.

IMO...I think it's a two fold problem. Estrogen from your last cycle. + some from this one. AND your HPTA is REALLY shut down on a couple levels. Brain and Testes. High estro from no PCT is suppressive, more suppressive than test. Then you added Test and shut it down completely. This combo would leave anyone soft and undriven! The erection quality problem sounds like high Estro to me.

Sometimes we just don't know and need to address the symptoms. Viagra should help with the wood. If you want to try to fix this before the blood test, you have a couple attack angles. Just IMO of course, but these worked for me:

Estrogen
Dopamine/Progesterone
LH/FSH.

I'd start with Estrogen. You haven't been taking an AI, so for sure, you know your Estro is not LOW. If anything, it's a bit high, plus Estro hanging on from your last cycle with no new test coming in. So add a little Aromasin. 12.5mg, wait a couple days, 12.5 more if it seems to be working and things get better. Then wait. Dont overdo it, or you're back to Square One. But really, if you aren;t feeling (working) better after the second dose, Estro may not be your problem.

LH/FSH: I can be on all kinds of shit, but when I'm shutdown, my libido takes a hike. And you are no doubt, Shut-down. My body likes LH and FSH. Clomid on cycle helps me a LOT. It works from the brain, rather than the Testes. Drop 50mg and the next day you may feel much better. If not, try HcG, 500iu e4d.

Finally, the often overlooked. Androgens affect the DA system negatively. All of them, not just Tren. Over the long term, it can lead to anhedonia and just a passionless state. The DA system is one of the key drive/motivation centers in the brain. Prami or another DA agonist could get you sorted pretty quickly.

Prami was the key for me. Believe it or not, I was on Test and Masteron! And no libido AT ALL. I could function, but didn't want to, really not like me. After some research, I gave Prami a try and it was one of the best additions to my stack, ever. Total turn around and worked FAST.

Hope this helps, Bro.

 

[KillerStack]

It's 10.5 days.

That 10.5 days gets thrown around a lot on the boards but it is wrong. If you read the insert on an American Test Cyp, the half life is 8-9 days for cypionate, making enanthate even less.

Scherings data for Testoviron (Enan) says half-life is about 4 days. (3.8 days +/- 0.9 days).

 

[Salzberger]

Viagra/Cialis...Get some! First things first, clear your mind. Then address the underlying problem.

To paraphrase Arthur Conan Doyle, "When you eliminate all possibilities, the impossible must be true". So, 4.5 weeks or not, something's clearly wrong.

IMO...I think it's a two fold problem. Estrogen from your last cycle. + some from this one. AND your HPTA is REALLY shut down on a couple levels. Brain and Testes. High estro from no PCT is suppressive, more suppressive than test. Then you added Test and shut it down completely. This combo would leave anyone soft and undriven! The erection quality problem sounds like high Estro to me.

Sometimes we just don't know and need to address the symptoms. Viagra should help with the wood. If you want to try to fix this before the blood test, you have a couple attack angles. Just IMO of course, but these worked for me:

Estrogen
Dopamine/Progesterone
LH/FSH.

I'd start with Estrogen. You haven't been taking an AI, so for sure, you know your Estro is not LOW. If anything, it's a bit high, plus Estro hanging on from your last cycle with no new test coming in. So add a little Aromasin. 12.5mg, wait a couple days, 12.5 more if it seems to be working and things get better. Then wait. Dont overdo it, or you're back to Square One. But really, if you aren;t feeling (working) better after the second dose, Estro may not be your problem.

LH/FSH: I can be on all kinds of shit, but when I'm shutdown, my libido takes a hike. And you are no doubt, Shut-down. My body likes LH and FSH. Clomid on cycle helps me a LOT. It works from the brain, rather than the Testes. Drop 50mg and the next day you may feel much better. If not, try HcG, 500iu e4d.

Finally, the often overlooked. Androgens affect the DA system negatively. All of them, not just Tren. Over the long term, it can lead to anhedonia and just a passionless state. The DA system is one of the key drive/motivation centers in the brain. Prami or another DA agonist could get you sorted pretty quickly.

Prami was the key for me. Believe it or not, I was on Test and Masteron! And no libido AT ALL. I could function, but didn't want to, really not like me. After some research, I gave Prami a try and it was one of the best additions to my stack, ever. Total turn around and worked FAST.

Hope this helps, Bro.

Well I woke up with really good morning wood this morning, so the problem isn't physical. My dick CAN get hard which is good news. Hopefully the .25mg of Adex did the trick.

I've taken Cabergoline in the past and didn't really like it all that much. I never felt satisfied after sex. I don't have prami, but do have some pharma caber lying around. My prolactin always comes in pretty low on a bloodtest. in the 3-4 range which is extremely low. You are telling me that these drugs act in another way in addition to lowering prolactin?

 

[The Dude]

Well I woke up with really good morning wood this morning, so the problem isn't physical. My dick CAN get hard which is good news. Hopefully the .25mg of Adex did the trick.

I've taken Cabergoline in the past and didn't really like it all that much. I never felt satisfied after sex. I don't have prami, but do have some pharma caber lying around. My prolactin always comes in pretty low on a bloodtest. in the 3-4 range which is extremely low. You are telling me that these drugs act in another way in addition to lowering prolactin?

Id be willing to bet its mental. I've gone as high as 3g of test a week with no AI and had some problems then bridged with 300mg.... some problems. Then 2g a week with 400mg of Deca and on and on. I don't know about how much experience you've had or how attracted to your partner you are, but for me the slightest off topic thought and I go limp. Sometimes I'll just get tired and go limp. If I worry about going limp, it happens. I took some cialis for a bit to build up my confidence and now have no problems. I'm off my 3g of test and 400mg of Deca and now on 400 of test and 400 of Deca and have no issues. For me it was just like when I was younger and would think about something else to keep from nutting too quick. Now if I worry it goes limp. Sex isn't the conquest like it used to be.

 

[Ehren]

Yep, could very well be mental...stress or anxiety related to high test levels, or just life.

And Dopamine agonists (caber, bromo, prami) have the effect of lowering Prolactin, as you know, which is good for BBing. They lower it by increasing Dopamine in the brain.

But they also repair the Dopaminergic system, allowing people to feel joy, libido, motivation. All these are related to the "reward" center of the brain which is driven by Dopamine. Depression, or actually anhedonia (feeling nothing emotionally) is in large part linked to low dopamine. Androgens and Progestins can impair this system a bit.

But if the Adex works, estrogen was likely the culprit. And with your Prl coming in low, perhaps its not a problem.

Glad the Adex seemed to work!

 

[Salzberger]

Id be willing to bet its mental. I've gone as high as 3g of test a week with no AI and had some problems then bridged with 300mg.... some problems. Then 2g a week with 400mg of Deca and on and on. I don't know about how much experience you've had or how attracted to your partner you are, but for me the slightest off topic thought and I go limp. Sometimes I'll just get tired and go limp. If I worry about going limp, it happens. I took some cialis for a bit to build up my confidence and now have no problems. I'm off my 3g of test and 400mg of Deca and now on 400 of test and 400 of Deca and have no issues. For me it was just like when I was younger and would think about something else to keep from nutting too quick. Now if I worry it goes limp. Sex isn't the conquest like it used to be.

This is exactly it... ever since it (ED) happened the first time, I just worry to shit. It's a sad life to think that this could be my view on sex for the next 40 years... lol. I am gonna pop some 10mg Cialis for the next week to get my confidence back up and hope that does the trick, but like I stated above, my dick can work as evidenced by some quality morning wood.

Yep, could very well be mental...stress or anxiety related to high test levels, or just life.

And Dopamine agonists (caber, bromo, prami) have the effect of lowering Prolactin, as you know, which is good for BBing. They lower it by increasing Dopamine in the brain.

But they also repair the Dopaminergic system, allowing people to feel joy, libido, motivation. All these are related to the "reward" center of the brain which is driven by Dopamine. Depression, or actually anhedonia (feeling nothing emotionally) is in large part linked to low dopamine. Androgens and Progestins can impair this system a bit.

But if the Adex works, estrogen was likely the culprit. And with your Prl coming in low, perhaps its not a problem.

Glad the Adex seemed to work!

I sometimes feel nothing emotionally, but I have always associated this with dieting AND steroids. Anytime I bulk, I never get like this and feel fantastic. I also bloat to shit and get acne. When my diet is controlled, I feel like shit - anhedonia as you say, but get no acne and no bloat. It is a tough line.
I still have a drive for certain things. I've never been more focused on my business. Maybe I am just burned out from working too hard and not eating enough due to my schedule - and no amount of testosterone is going to help that.

On this prolactin/dopaminergic system reward structure. Do we know if the dopamine system can be burned out by androgen use, but prolactin remains low? Or does prolactin HAVE to increase in a blood panel to show signs of anhedonia on a pysical/chemical level?

 

[nolenut]

Ehren,
Just curious did you experience any other SE's from the low dopamine?