Short cycles?

[Magnum]

For the most part 4 on 4 off. I like clomid in between. Some will opt to use HCG also. Anti-E's are kept to a minimum. They interfere too much with growth. There are a myriad of ways to cycle and some prefer to use insulin and or IGF between cycles, but I do not use any anabolics what so ever. I won't get into dosages for fear of reprisal.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I think some people arent looking at the big picture here.

They think "short cycles" and think "what the hell am I going to do in 4 weeks"?

Think or it as a whole 4+2+4+2+4+2 or 7+3+7+3+7+3 (or similiar) and the method to the madness might come to you. And then you can think "Is it better if I bombard myself into complete and utter HPTA dormancy/shutdown for 16-20 weeks straight? Or is it better if "to the best of ones ability" to do PCT every 4-7 weeks (even if its slightly abbreviated).......

As I know the argument will come after this post........ If anyone here loses 25 pounds of muscle in 2-3 weeks of PCT after 4-7 weeks on.....you might want to pick a new endeavor as a hobby because your doing this one wrong.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

SHBG?

Insulin
Stinging Nettle or Nettle Root
Proviron

 

[DIEZEL666]

For the most part 4 on 4 off. I like clomid in between. Some will opt to use HCG also. Anti-E's are kept to a minimum. They interfere too much with growth. There are a myriad of ways to cycle and some prefer to use insulin and or IGF between cycles, but I do not use any anabolics what so ever. I won't get into dosages for fear of reprisal.

Magnum, would you follow the same 4 on 4 off while dieting for competition? For the 4 on do you use all short acting esters? Thanks.

 

[ScorpioGirl]

What about the less and longer approach though?

 

[Moen]

Interesting this
Please give some examples of these short cycles (without dosages for the sake of not starting another riot :devi:-smi ), just which drugs you would use, which pct (if it would look different than a pct after a longer cycle that is)

 

[edge250]

the cycles i have read posted by ian harrison were similar to this and i liked his ideas. he did something similar usually i think it was 6 or 7 weeks on with 3 to 4 weeks off. frontloading with longer ester for the 1st 2 weeks then switching to faster esters for the last 4 to 5 so everything was out at the same time for the time off period. i can get his exact outline in his own words if anyone is interested, he posts over at ssb or did for awhile with his own q&a section.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

What I kind of find hilarious is I was talking about this 5-6 years ago and everyone and their brother in the bodybuilding community online said "it wouldnt work, it sucks, thats bullshit" and I was catching bigtime heat for it on every message board out there.

I very much like the trend of thought DAD and Iamabadman has on this thread

 

[DIEZEL666]

What I kind of find hilarious is I was talking about this 5-6 years ago and everyone and their brother in the bodybuilding community online said "it wouldnt work, it sucks, thats bullshit" and I was catching bigtime heat for it on every message board out there.

I very much like the trend of thought DAD and Iamabadman has on this thread

Dante, that is one of the drawbacks of being and innovator and a pioneer. At least your methods have withstood the test of time. Best of luck in the new year.

 

[Magnum]

Accordiung to Kerry Keyes he was "coaching" Ian. He would do some pretty high frontloading doses with variable ester drugs in the beginning like Omni or sust. Long esters ending with short. I like DG have always used 6 weeks cycles years ago because I noticed years ago that my gains pretty much came to a halt at this time. I did this without even knowing why, just following my instrinct. Now I opt for the shorter 4 on 4 off. Sometimes I do vary it.

During contest prep things will change. Since most are on a calorie deficiant diet you need to cycle longer IMO, but I do change up around 4 weeks regardless.

 

[Dad]

Thank you, DC.

My trying to get people to understand the rationale behind short cycles (not shutting HPT axis down, ect) has seemed to fall mostly on deaf ears.

As you so correctly point out, it's short cycles over a period of time, AND how much is retained that counts!

 

[edge250]

DC i know a few years ago you talked about cruising inbetween cycles saying it was better for some guys than the yo-yo effect of going off going on etc(sorry i could be wrong) and that it was speculated i think by duchaine not sure that this was possibly more harmful and cruising with hrt between short cycles if i bodybuilder particularly someone who was advance physique wise was a healthier approach. cant remember all the details but i remember reading about it somewhere, dont know if it was one of your newsletters or one of duchaines. sorry if i am completely wrong here, that was many years ago

 

[edge250]

thats right magnum, ian said he would frontload with sust/omna i forget what anabolic he used but i do remember drol in there and then switching to fina and prop. i believe he added in gh at week 3 and cant remember the reason for the timing.

 

[edge250]

i think also age would come into play with this approach, what effect the hpt axis is gonna have as we get into are 30's and older. eventually the system is gonna say the hell with all this and peter out, no pun intended, lol. when we are younger and the hpt axis is in full swing this would be the way to go to keep it optimized but for those who did things differently over the years and the axis will never fully return to normal, well i guess that would be a different thread.

 

[Magnum]

thats right magnum, ian said he would frontload with sust/omna i forget what anabolic he used but i do remember drol in there and then switching to fina and prop. i believe he added in gh at week 3 and cant remember the reason for the timing.

Yeah, GH in divided doses thru out the day. I believe 12iu for 4 days straight and off 3.

 

[DIEZEL666]

If I lived in a country where it was legal, I would do 8 weeks on and 4 off. For the first 4 weeks I would use enanthate and prop, then start tapering off the last 4 weeks with prop. I don't see a need for anything but test and maybe some A-bombs or Dbol in the offseason. I am curious about using some IGF during the off time though.

 

[edge250]

What I kind of find hilarious is I was talking about this 5-6 years ago and everyone and their brother in the bodybuilding community online said "it wouldnt work, it sucks, thats bullshit" and I was catching bigtime heat for it on every message board out there.

I very much like the trend of thought DAD and Iamabadman has on this thread

think of it this way.........picasso's painting werent worth a shit till he died, lmao

 

[Hiramabiff]

I think some people arent looking at the big picture here.

They think "short cycles" and think "what the hell am I going to do in 4 weeks"?

Think or it as a whole 4+2+4+2+4+2 or 7+3+7+3+7+3 (or similiar) and the method to the madness might come to you. And then you can think "Is it better if I bombard myself into complete and utter HPTA dormancy/shutdown for 16-20 weeks straight? Or is it better if "to the best of ones ability" to do PCT every 4-7 weeks (even if its slightly abbreviated).......

As I know the argument will come after this post........ If anyone here loses 25 pounds of muscle in 2-3 weeks of PCT after 4-7 weeks on.....you might want to pick a new endeavor as a hobby because your doing this one wrong.

DC, have you ever had a meeting of the minds with Muscle Trainee over on AnabolicExtreme? That man is pure genious. He is the expert on short cycles and the logical approach to doing them. I am trying to get him to post here. He was have pc problems a couple of weeks ago. Now if I can get Muscle Trainee, Phil, DC ,Magnum, Iabadman, Skip and a few others to colloborate... THE WORLD WOULD BE MUSCLED SUPERFREAKS!!!!! No disrepect if I forgot to mention others..lol.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

DC i know a few years ago you talked about cruising inbetween cycles saying it was better for some guys than the yo-yo effect of going off going on etc(sorry i could be wrong) and that it was speculated i think by duchaine not sure that this was possibly more harmful and cruising with hrt between short cycles if i bodybuilder particularly someone who was advance physique wise was a healthier approach. cant remember all the details but i remember reading about it somewhere, dont know if it was one of your newsletters or one of duchaines. sorry if i am completely wrong here, that was many years ago

cruising means PCT (in my context)

Blasting (=training hard and on if someone is enhanced)
Cruising (=maintenance training and PCT)

A persons PCT is defined by themself. Some do some form of PCT. Some refuse to get off and do low dose test. And I should state that some people in top echelons of this sport who have to keep a certain look for multi appearances (Arnold Classic, Ironman, Night of Champions, USA's, Olympia, Euro shows, Nationals) have to think things out individually and Im not going to fault them for that. I think we can all think of certain pro's and top ams that make alot of guest posings, appearances and compete (year round) that havent looked (smaller or smooth) for many years. To each his own

I think your confusing "bridging" with the word I use "cruising"

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

To talk a little bit more about the above in vague terms

Feb Ironman
March Arnold
May Night of champions
July USA's
Sept Oct Olympia
November Nationals

We have all seen top bodybuilders in the audience, in the expo or walking around at all these shows spread out thru the year, (not too many of them are looking smaller or smooth like they are "off")

mix in 10-15 guest posings a year on various weekends spread thruout the year, mix in photo shoots maybe 2-3 times a year, mix in appearances for store openings, and other guest appearances (Fibo, Euro shows appearances).........and I think you get the picture that sometimes I dont take much weight when I hear a pro saying "I try to take as much time off as I am on"