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Shoulder injury / Stem cell fix

Ruhlfreak55

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I have a few questions for you all, hopefully some people have done this (not necessarily in the shoulder but other ortho places too).

So I hurt my right shoulder right before memorial day, deadlifting, not very heavy and in the course of 2 reps and 90 seconds or so afterward went from fine to feeling like someone had taken a hole saw to my rear delt area. Afterward I was able to finish the back workout this was a part of but in diminished capacity. Then it proceeded to mostly pain just pulling up and back, so pulling the brake on the car, pulling underwear up, things like that. I never stopped training, but I did severely limit back and chest for a week and didn't do any shoulders at all, after that I eased back in. Now the pain has diminished a lot, but is still there for sure and the shoulder is popping a lot more than normal and has developed some general achy-ness that encompasses the whole joint.

At this point we do not have an MRI, but I pass all rotator cuff exercises (except the liftoff one who the hell can actually do that) and so the assumption by the doctors is that it is some sort of labrum tear. IMO this can't possibly be a complete tear because if it where, based on my understanding of the anatomy it would be much worse pain wise and symptom wise. As such, no one would do surgery on it anyway (this is my thought process based on what I've read they do and don't do surgery for in this regard), so I'm set up to do BMAC stem cell on it in a few weeks.

Important (perhaps) extra information, I've hurt the pec and lat /teres tendons on this side in the past substantially, so the plan would be to give them some help while we're poking around also.

My questions for you all are as follows:

According to you, does this sound like a logical course of action going forward? (ask any questions to clarify that you want)

What protocols can I follow with the things we do that doctors won't really conversate about to maximize my healing following this procedure? (I looked for threads on this and didn't see much)

Given the locality I'm very paranoid that I have some sort of actual avulsion in the rear delt and I don't feel like that concern was given any credence at all by the doctor(s), have any of you actually torn delt muscle?

If anyone has direct labrum and stem cell experience (hip or knee) I would appreciate you sharing it as I can't find a whole lot on that exact structure and stem cells.
 

qbkilla

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I had a small labrum slap tear from doing dreads. Physical therapist was able to strengthen all the muscles around it to where it's never an issue. I think the key is a top notch PT not a granny or car accident clinic. Some are utterly worthless. I believe surgery is an option but PT if possible because it's a rough recovery.
 

Ruhlfreak55

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I had a small labrum slap tear from doing dreads. Physical therapist was able to strengthen all the muscles around it to where it's never an issue. I think the key is a top notch PT not a granny or car accident clinic. Some are utterly worthless. I believe surgery is an option but PT if possible because it's a rough recovery.
So I'm fairly confident that it's not a SLAP tear because my understanding is that's in the front and right around where the bicep tendon comes in. I have no real issue in the front of the shoulder whatsoever, or an issue with bicep work. What was your symptomology like?
 

Reno911

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I have had PRP on 1 hip and both shoulders and will be doing PRP and stem cells in my neck and both shoulders in a few months.

Make sure to cut out all aspirin, NSAIDs, and fish oil before and after the procedure. If I remember correctly, it was 3 weeks before and after. (I need to re-check with my Dr on the time frame). These things will lower inflammation and after the procedure you WANT the inflammation to stimulate the healing and let the areas scaffold.

I spoke with my Dr about TB 500 and BPC and he had me wait I believe until week 8 on both of those. I will ask and revisit this with him again and see if he's changed his opinion in the last few years.

On my last procedure I was on a cruise so my GH was at 2iu. This time I will still be on a cruising but my GH is at 5iu and I'm thinking after the procedure I might bump it to 10iu for a month or so if I can handle the carpel tunnel sides. I discussed this with my PT who's pretty forward thinking but he thought it would be a good idea for stimulating the healing process. It makes sense that a high dose GH would help things progress.
 

Ruhlfreak55

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Make sure to cut out all aspirin, NSAIDs, and fish oil before and after the procedure. If I remember correctly, it was 3 weeks before and after. (I need to re-check with my Dr on the time frame). These things will lower inflammation and after the procedure you WANT the inflammation to stimulate the healing and let the areas scaffold.
Ugh. They didn't say shit about that wth.
 

Bio

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Why not get the MRI and know for sure what's going on?
 

Ruhlfreak55

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Why not get the MRI and know for sure what's going on?
A number of reasons. For one, wasting money that I'm going to then have to spend on the stem cell anyway. Also from what I read on johns hopkins they're only 80% effective at diagnosing large labrum tears and pretty much a crap shoot at smaller ones (and this passage did include arthrograms). On top of that, being a bodybuilder, I'm not really too keen on injecting myself with something that even the FDA admits causes acute kidney injury in 5% of uses (arthrogram).
Then the cherry on top was that the MRI place attempted to make me wear a mask and that was the straw that broke the back of the camel on that.

Cost vs benefits analysis isn't exactly falling in favor of doing it.
 

Ruhlfreak55

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Why not get the MRI and know for sure what's going on?
They have looked at everything you can with the ultrasound (although I'm not convinced they REALLY looked at the actual rear delt), so everything looks intact in that regard. They can't see deep labrum structures with it though.
 

muscle96ss

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I have a few questions for you all, hopefully some people have done this (not necessarily in the shoulder but other ortho places too).

So I hurt my right shoulder right before memorial day, deadlifting, not very heavy and in the course of 2 reps and 90 seconds or so afterward went from fine to feeling like someone had taken a hole saw to my rear delt area. Afterward I was able to finish the back workout this was a part of but in diminished capacity. Then it proceeded to mostly pain just pulling up and back, so pulling the brake on the car, pulling underwear up, things like that. I never stopped training, but I did severely limit back and chest for a week and didn't do any shoulders at all, after that I eased back in. Now the pain has diminished a lot, but is still there for sure and the shoulder is popping a lot more than normal and has developed some general achy-ness that encompasses the whole joint.

At this point we do not have an MRI, but I pass all rotator cuff exercises (except the liftoff one who the hell can actually do that) and so the assumption by the doctors is that it is some sort of labrum tear. IMO this can't possibly be a complete tear because if it where, based on my understanding of the anatomy it would be much worse pain wise and symptom wise. As such, no one would do surgery on it anyway (this is my thought process based on what I've read they do and don't do surgery for in this regard), so I'm set up to do BMAC stem cell on it in a few weeks.

Important (perhaps) extra information, I've hurt the pec and lat /teres tendons on this side in the past substantially, so the plan would be to give them some help while we're poking around also.

My questions for you all are as follows:

According to you, does this sound like a logical course of action going forward? (ask any questions to clarify that you want)

What protocols can I follow with the things we do that doctors won't really conversate about to maximize my healing following this procedure? (I looked for threads on this and didn't see much)

Given the locality I'm very paranoid that I have some sort of actual avulsion in the rear delt and I don't feel like that concern was given any credence at all by the doctor(s), have any of you actually torn delt muscle?

If anyone has direct labrum and stem cell experience (hip or knee) I would appreciate you sharing it as I can't find a whole lot on that exact structure and stem cells.
Have you had an x-ray to rule out arthritis? Have you tried TB-500? I had a reverse shoulder replacement in February and was looking at doing the other shoulder shortly afterward. I started TB-500 to help the surgical shoulder heal, and my other shoulder is completely tolerable now.

Please let us know how the stem cells turn out. I was actually considering that as well but my surgeon said that he hasn't seen good results for my issue(which was not labrum or rotator cuff related).
 

qbkilla

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So I'm fairly confident that it's not a SLAP tear because my understanding is that's in the front and right around where the bicep tendon comes in. I have no real issue in the front of the shoulder whatsoever, or an issue with bicep work. What was your symptomology like?
Yeah I think slap is in front, deadlifts, bench, reaching to inject my opposite delt aggravated it. But now can do exercises pain free. Never went back to dreads not worth the risk. Have did sldl but I'm a smaller guy no shit heavy weight. Oh press was never affected.
 

ripriot

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I would want to know what my rotator cuff tendon is doing by MRi if you had a substantial pec/lat tears on that side. You compensate without knowing it. I never know the rotator cuff and shoulder was so complicated till I had an injury from work this summer. Still in physical therapy for what showed on my mri mild rotator cuff Tendinopathy, bone edema, & bursitis. 3 months ago and they only let me use 10-20lb resistance bands. And I’m not a small guy but I’m not bodybuilder size. Since you like to read. From what I know if you have a tendon injury it’s not going to heal unless you give it rest.

 

qbkilla

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I would want to know what my rotator cuff tendon is doing by MRi if you had a substantial pec/lat tears on that side. You compensate without knowing it. I never know the rotator cuff and shoulder was so complicated till I had an injury from work this summer. Still in physical therapy for what showed on my mri mild rotator cuff Tendinopathy, bone edema, & bursitis. 3 months ago and they only let me use 10-20lb resistance bands. And I’m not a small guy but I’m not bodybuilder size. Since you like to read. From what I know if you have a tendon injury it’s not going to heal unless you give it rest.

Yup. It all started with pec belly tear on that side, couldn't lift the bar for 6 months.. tweak it occasionally, then slap tear, then bicep , then a lat injury, now a forearm strain....for me.

That's my bad side, once injured I feel like things always get tweaked because compensate for it without knowing. Original pec tear was when I was doing 355 for 7 back in 2008 at a chubby 250lbs. I knew I couldn't lift for a while and would shrink so I just dieted to get lean and found a new look never hit the crazy heavy weights again. Part of my journey to be the board "aren't you under 200lbs stop eating those egg wraps and pound 5k calories and train heavy or shut up" persona lol
 

Ruhlfreak55

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Have you had an x-ray to rule out arthritis? Have you tried TB-500? I had a reverse shoulder replacement in February and was looking at doing the other shoulder shortly afterward. I started TB-500 to help the surgical shoulder heal, and my other shoulder is completely tolerable now.

Please let us know how the stem cells turn out. I was actually considering that as well but my surgeon said that he hasn't seen good results for my issue(which was not labrum or rotator cuff related).
Yes, they did X-rays and found zero arthritis and no spurs. With how the original injury came on I really wondered if it wasnt a bone spur slowly severing something so thankfully that has been ruled out.
 

Ruhlfreak55

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Yeah I think slap is in front, deadlifts, bench, reaching to inject my opposite delt aggravated it. But now can do exercises pain free. Never went back to dreads not worth the risk. Have did sldl but I'm a smaller guy no shit heavy weight. Oh press was never affected.
Even with the slap tear your presses never hurt? that's interesting. I seem pretty much fine press wise as well, which drawing freebody diagrams in my head (possibly wrong since we only did those in classical mechanics) doesn't exactly make sense to me.
 

Ruhlfreak55

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You compensate without knowing it.
I do think this is VERY important and something no PT has ever even attempted (that I recall) to rectify. I have no idea how you make that pec take over like it did before the injury, obviously I do what I can mind muscle connection wise but it still seems to me like there's a difference.
 

Performance Based

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Prefacing this with - I have done PRP 12+ times, Exosomes 5 times, Stem Cells (Mysenchamal 2x, BMA 1X, Adipose 1X).

PRP, Exosomes, BMA and Adipose were in all sincerity complete and utter wastes of time and funding.

Stem Cell Therapy - Mysenchamal ONLY
Expanded Cells
[email protected]
Medellin Colombia

Non-Expanded Cells
Texas Orthopaedic Associates - Dallas Walnut Hill
(214) 750-1207

Neuropathy and Pain Center - Fort Worth (shitty shopping center but procuring solid product)
(817) 754-9884


Best physical therapy clinic in the States - KinetikChain in Dallas

A cash pay MRI for the shoulder girdle should be approximately $350.
 

Ruhlfreak55

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Prefacing this with - I have done PRP 12+ times, Exosomes 5 times, Stem Cells (Mysenchamal 2x, BMA 1X, Adipose 1X).

PRP, Exosomes, BMA and Adipose were in all sincerity complete and utter wastes of time and funding.
Really? With what spots? They do say there's differences in how people react to it. I'm not trying to minimize your experience whatsoever but could you be a bad responder?
I've done BMAC before in my hip and knee and honestly it's hard to tell how much they did. I do think I can train better than I could before and I have very little pain, but would my body have healed that itself? No idea.
 

Reno911

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Prefacing this with - I have done PRP 12+ times, Exosomes 5 times, Stem Cells (Mysenchamal 2x, BMA 1X, Adipose 1X).

PRP, Exosomes, BMA and Adipose were in all sincerity complete and utter wastes of time and funding.

Stem Cell Therapy - Mysenchamal ONLY
Expanded Cells
[email protected]
Medellin Colombia

Non-Expanded Cells
Texas Orthopaedic Associates - Dallas Walnut Hill
(214) 750-1207

Neuropathy and Pain Center - Fort Worth (shitty shopping center but procuring solid product)
(817) 754-9884


Best physical therapy clinic in the States - KinetikChain in Dallas

A cash pay MRI for the shoulder girdle should be approximately $350.

Thank you for this information. I have seen some videos on BioExcellerator in Columbia.

So no luck for you with the Bone Marrow cells? I'm heading in soon to get those along with PRP. I have had good luck in the past with PRP on a hip and both shoulders.
 

Performance Based

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Thank you for this information. I have seen some videos on BioExcellerator in Columbia.

So no luck for you with the Bone Marrow cells? I'm heading in soon to get those along with PRP. I have had good luck in the past with PRP on a hip and both shoulders.
Morning mate - PRP for me outside of a grievous injury to be frank I couldn’t event tell I had something done on the healing efficacy (done at regenexx Dallas and Virginia Beach).

Bone Marrow aspirate derived same boat Sam for fat derived. I did the program at docere clinic (full body) and it culminated in me being upset for my time being wasted.
 

Performance Based

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Really? With what spots? They do say there's differences in how people react to it. I'm not trying to minimize your experience whatsoever but could you be a bad responder?
I've done BMAC before in my hip and knee and honestly it's hard to tell how much they did. I do think I can train better than I could before and I have very little pain, but would my body have healed that itself? No idea.
Your not minimizing mate - I’ll lend as much help as possible. I’ve hit all these clinics through work looking for programs to send out guys to. These are very large expenditures so to have as much data as possible.

Major Medical Background 15 years with a tier 1 or 2 military group with 17 deployments. 8 diagnosed TBIs, compound femur fracture resulting in lateral screws anterior to IT band, three right shoulder dislocations, Mumford surgery, skeletal muscle issue primary of the posterior chain (multiple tears of both hamstrings, both gastronemius and right soleus), superior muscular systems all in good standing, 2013 hepatocellular carcinoma diagnosis (resection + chemo) and 2015 chronic myeloid leukemia diagnosis (chemo) - full remission of both.

Predominately interested in potential uptick of cognitive function and pain relief throughout posterior chain.

Cells Administered
Exosomes - 1B cells per application - no discernible changes
BioXcellerator - 250M cells via IV, 50M cells administered in each joint (kneesx2, hipsx2,shouldersx2) substantial pain reduction, cardiovascular and metabolic (energy) output was increased substantially for 3-4 months post application.
Pain centers of Texas - 8M cells administered per joint (same as above) - MASSIVE change in both shoulders, canceled a surgery due to it. Completely healed after approx 3 weeks.
Docere clinic - full body stem cell procedure completed, honestly 1 month later I felt worse and had radiating pain down my right side. Having a naturopath inject into your spine. Never again.

Primary difference with cells at bio (and other non US clinics) is that they are expanded. Expanded cells cannot be imported into the states for the most part. Differentiation is 5m vs 100m cells for the same price (roughly)
 

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