Signing for packs

[MightyJohn]

How safe is signing for packs if U have already had a problem...? Say U had a problem with a UPS pack is OK to accept postal packs or fed-x packs afterwards & what about packs U do not hafta sign for...?

 

[G.E.R.M]

..

depends on the problem...

sources that send requiring sigs a fucked up...

my general rule of thumb is :

signing for drugs = bad news....

no 2 ways about it bro...

you will most likely have no issues, but if there is an issue you are fucking fried...

 

[Cman34677]

most good sources won't ask for sigs....but if you've already had trouble then I would advise against it

 

[Mr.Huge]

you guys have it all wrong...

it does'nt matter if you sign or not. If they want you they will come and get you trust me. Signature or no signature. It doesnt really matter!! Regardless of what anyone says, if the pack is coming your way and it's a controlled delivery you are fucked with or without a sig. No ifs, ands, or buts about it!
Other then them doing a controlled delivery or you being under survelience or being investigate then either way signature required or no sig requires will not matter. However, when its your time to go down you will go down with or without sig.


Mr.Huge

 

[JAG]

Please tellus you are not using the same address? If you are I would be very carefull. Although I tend to agree that if they want you bad enough they will get you. If you refuse to sign and do not take possesion of the pack I think it does make a difference.

 

[Maverick]

it does'nt matter if you sign or not. If they want you they will come and get you trust me. Signature or no signature. It doesnt really matter!! Regardless of what anyone says, if the pack is coming your way and it's a controlled delivery you are fucked with or without a sig. No ifs, ands, or buts about it!
Other then them doing a controlled delivery or you being under survelience or being investigate then either way signature required or no sig requires will not matter. However, when its your time to go down you will go down with or without sig.


Mr.Huge

I have to disagree. You may be under investigation and they may know exaclty what your doing and for this reason they try a controlled delivery but the law states that if you do not sign the cannot do anything to you. Now if your referring to a search warrant for your house, they need a judge to sign it and yes they can go on probable cause if they have agthered circumstancial evidence against you, but they cannot arrest you for simply not signing for a package.

If thats the case they could arrest anybody for anything and just say joe blow had 500 kilo's of coke in this box on his door step. You have to sign to go down. You should know that huge.


Maverick

 

[Mr.Huge]

I have to disagree. You may be under investigation and they may know exaclty what your doing and for this reason they try a controlled delivery but the law states that if you do not sign the cannot do anything to you. Now if your referring to a search warrant for your house, they need a judge to sign it and yes they can go on probable cause if they have agthered circumstancial evidence against you, but they cannot arrest you for simply not signing for a package.

If thats the case they could arrest anybody for anything and just say joe blow had 500 kilo's of coke in this box on his door step. You have to sign to go down. You should know that huge.


Maverick

This is absolutely incorrect show me where it says by law you are not reliable if you do not sign for a package even if its going to your residence or a PMB in your name etc.

I never signed another person signed for the package when i was arrested & the package was in another persons name. That person whos name the package was in signed for it and I ended up picking the package up later & was arrested. It doesnt matter who signs for it if they want you they will get you.

DO SOME MORE HOMEWORK. IF THIS WERE THE CASE I WOULD HAVE NEVER BEEN CHARGED AND MY WIFE WOULD HAVE. I WAS NOT EVEN LIVING WITH HER AT THE TIME. THEY FOLLOWED ME WHEN I ARRIVED AT HER HOUSE AND I WAS ARRESTED. IF THERE IS A LAW THAT STATES THIS THEN MY CASE NEEDS REOPENED AND I NEED RESENTENCED TO A DISMISSED CASE. I WOULD NOT HAVE A FELONY ON MY RECORD TODAY.


Mr.Huge

 

[JAG]

I ended up picking the package

This is why you where arrested. The key is you took possesion of the pack. If you not take possesion they could not have arrested you.

 

[grizzly]

I have to disagree. You may be under investigation and they may know exaclty what your doing and for this reason they try a controlled delivery but the law states that if you do not sign the cannot do anything to you. Now if your referring to a search warrant for your house, they need a judge to sign it and yes they can go on probable cause if they have agthered circumstancial evidence against you, but they cannot arrest you for simply not signing for a package.

If thats the case they could arrest anybody for anything and just say joe blow had 500 kilo's of coke in this box on his door step. You have to sign to go down. You should know that huge.


Maverick

Wrong, bro. Huge is correct. Signing is not a necessity! It is all about POSESSION! This whole signing for packages thing is a myth. Sure it helps seal their case against you if you do sign and take possession but if they don't get the sig you are still screwed if you took posession.

 

[Mr.Huge]

exactly...

Wrong, bro. Huge is correct. Signing is not a necessity! It is all about POSESSION! This whole signing for packages thing is a myth. Sure it helps seal their case against you if you do sign and take possession but if they don't get the sig you are still screwed if you took posession.

Both Grizzly & Jag are correct the one thing about my case is that it was in my wifes name. She signed & then she actually transported the package with me in her car that was in her name to my place where they stopped us & boom the end of story. They had her place staked out not mine. When they seen me come and go once though prior to us getting pulled over they followed me and staked out my place also. I am friends with some of the cops that were involved today in which they have told me they had no clue it was me they were gonna nab. They thought it was her...but didnt know she was female. I was actually out having some drinks with one of they main detectives who was staked out my case. He owns the gym i work out at really nice guy. He was even cool to me when i was getting arrested. He had no clue it was gonna be me.

I had already know this was gonna happen over a week in advance so I was somewhat prepared. Reason I knew is when i tracked the pack it said attempted delivery on such and such date a couple weeks prior to the controlled delivery. However, the postman never left a pink slip in my box to say i had a attempted delivery. Then I knew if that pack was accepted I was fucked. So when it came i went over looked at it saw it was opened and resealed and said when i leave this place today I am going to jail you know nothing and I will take all blame and that is what I did. I did not need to lose my child do to a drug charge and put her mother through any problems either. You do the time fellas prepare to do the time. Or simply pay out of your ass for what you have been doing. Oh yeah & don't think your that good that it won't ever happen to you. It will its just a matter of time unless your cmart enough to get out before your in too deep. Those in that deep will & mark my words will get nailed sooner or later. It all happens for a reason.....you live and you learn.


Mr.Huge

 

[BCC]

Huge is 100 percent correct. If they really want to nail your ass with a controlled delivery they will do it signature or not.

 

[Coopie]

HOLD ON!

Things are getting a little heated here, so let's make certain we're all aware of two very important factors:

1. state laws vary - what constitutes Penal Peocedure in one state may not be the norm in another state, and

2. possession is the guiding legal principal here, not a signature. However, the signature is used to cement the state's arguement that the individual took possession, so the signature leans on the "intent" provisions.

You're both right!

 

[Maverick]

Huge,

Get off your high horse. You have never even done time. When you have gone to prison come talk to me. The fact is without signing for it you haven't taken possession of the package. I wasn't wrong in the fact when I said this. Granted possession is key but if you dont sign for it you dont take posession therefore they cannot arrest you there. This is the reason why the feds try to make you take the pack even when you dont want to sign for it telling you "it will be okay" or "nothing wrong here just sign". They want you to take possession.

I call bullshit on the fact they didn't know it was you. If they thought it was your wife they would have busted her when she signed for it and you would have ended up having to either fess up, watch her go down or have her rat you out. The reason you were busted is becuase just as you said in your own post, THE COPS FOLLOWED YOU TO HER HOUSE. .

As far as me not having evidence bro I have talked to rick collins. He even wrote an article on this. I think he would know far better than you do.

As far as not signing for a PMB, if you look at the contract carefully it states that they have the right to sign for packages becuase you are not there but they are exempt from any legal actions becuase they have no way of knowing whats in the box. Its your box therefore when they sign for it, it is the same as you signing for it. That why when you go into pick it up at a MBE your busted. Becuase when you sign the contract its the same as you being there. Dont believe me , go ask a lawyer.

So before you start blowing up at me buddy and yelling and screaming I suggest you calm down. No signature = no possession = no arrest. Its what I said in my original post. You said they followed you to your wifes house. They knew it was you, why else would they follow you to your wifes house and not bust your wife right when she accepted the pack.

So please do not tell me to go do my homeowrk. I have done my homework. And dont talk like tough shit becuase you haven't even seen the inside of a prison much less been to one so cut the tough guy talk. Until you have been there (like some poeple) you aint got shit to do with any attitude. You a small timer that made a deal to save his ass. Some people just shut thier mouths and take thier medicine.

I just want to add here I am not mad at huge or anything like that, but just stating my case. I was simply disagreeing with him and he chose to blow up. Huge your an okay guy, but I am done with this thread as thier is no point to argue. Go ask rick collins. He wrote an article on it I have it posted on the gade, He knows better than any of us and I would trust him over anybody here. Simple as that. I am only repeating legal info I read from rick collins


Maverick

 

[Maverick]

Here is the article off the gade and out of MD. The middle of the story is the part about the feds trying to get you to sign but you say no. They guy in this example got away. Now like I said in my original post the can raid your house if they get a search warrant but we aren't talking about this , the original post was about signatures only. This is where I got my info from.


Maverick


Controlled Deliveries
By Rick Collins, J.D.

Controlled Deliveries


If investigators want to bust you for a juice package, their goal will be to get you to take possession of the package. There are two reasons: 1) once you accept a package of contraband, you can be arrested for possessing it; and 2) the feds will have generally obtained a warrant to search your house that cannot be executed until you accept the package.


That’s where your signature comes in. Signing for the package removes any argument that you didn’t accept it. Especially when it’s supported by the undercover agent’s testimony about the conversation that took place. “Are you Johnny Johnson?” You said, “Yes.” “Will you accept this package?” You said, “Of course!” and looked really excited when you saw the return address from China.


Could accepting possession be proven in other ways? Absolutely. The issue is determined by looking at everything you did and said. In the conversation we just described, you said you were the person who intended to receive the package, and you explicitly stated that you would accept it. The absence of a signature won’t magically protect you!


What if you refuse to sign, but try to accept the package verbally? A real courier wouldn’t give it to you if a signature was required, but let’s say this undercover agent courier would. Have you avoided an arrest and search? Of course not, because you’ve accepted the package! What’s more, your cagey behavior will be used against you to prove your knowledge of the illegal contents of the package – why else would you refuse to sign?


I’ve seen a number of cases where the target gets a funky feeling about the delivery guy and rejects the package. The undercover courier will then do everything possible to get the package into the target’s hands, with or without a signature. It’s the only way to execute the raid. In one desperate case, the courier blew his cover and flashed a badge. He summoned his partner, and the two asked to step inside to talk about the package. The target told them he had no idea what was in the package and that they most certainly could not come into his house. The agents said the package contained suspected drugs, and asked if they could open it. “Do what you want, it’s not my package.” They opened it, and inside were 500 Anabol tablets. “My mistake,” one agent said. “These are okay. You can import a personal use supply. Here, you can take them.” Nice try. The target told the agent to stick the tabs where the sun don’t shine and avoided an arrest and raid by the eight other agents skulking in wait just off the property.


Given the headaches presented by savvy suspects, law enforcers are taking a new approach: wiring the package to signal when it’s opened. When someone opens a package, that’s good evidence that he’s the one who knowingly intended to possess it, right? It might even be stronger evidence than signing for it. The application for the search warrant will request authorization to execute the raid once the signal goes off. Several jurisdictions have begun using electronic signaling devices, typically AT-4’s, to confirm that a target has opened his package. No part of the device is visible unless the package is opened. It makes no audible sound but transmits an alert signal to a remote receiver manned by the agents. These devices are perfect in cases where a signature request might spook the target. An AT-4 can make the difference between a botched operation and a valid arrest and raid. Be aware that it’s likely the wave of the future. [For a complete discussion of controlled deliveries, check out Legal Muscle].


Rick Collins, J.D., a veteran lawyer and former competitive bodybuilder, is the author of the groundbreaking new book LEGAL MUSCLE: Anabolics in America, available through this site. [© Rick Collins, 2003. All rights reserved. For informational purposes only, not to be construed as legal advice.]

 

[rAJJIN]

well

Your both rite in a way-

My buddy just had a controlled deleivery not to long ago
and he tells me it Very cleary stated that he HAD to Take possesion
of the package for the search warrant.
I also know guys that they have tried to get to take or sign and they refused
and they couldnt use the warrant...

BUT-
Huge is rite. I also know of guys who Have had there homes raided
at 9:30 at night with a search warrant. If they want you they have 100 differant ways of getting you.

The signature or you possesing the pack is just something they "might"
need to Bust in in certain cases. IMO

 

[Big Ed]

damn im sweating just reading this thread! As a side note im up 5lbs this week. My a50 has started taking effect and the tren is right behind

Everyone just be safe!

 

[draven]

first hand experience

They need no signature ...helps with the case they build but they do what they want ...considering most dont have 25-60k to fight them and plea out or " roll on others. " Which we all here see way to often...we are all bro's till you are looking at 5-10 then it goes out window for the coward fucks and they beef the stand up guys that get crucified as heavy hitters. Anyway I was grabbed 3 fucking years ago w/o sig...but the wired up pack..(a few know my story)...all bullshit warrant affadavit by cops( fed,local,state,postal) all involved. Ne rec just gear----took fucking 3 years to get it tossed as the switched prosecuters mutiple times and we had to start over..almost every month for 2 years . The assholes got lucky made a bunch of shit up to get a warrant made up to take place based on " FUTURE " events that take place....how fucking creative is that? Hired heavy city atty and we got it tossed after proving they lied ...long fucking time and large $ ...all for what a few heavy cycles are to some on here. Bottom line is---be extra safe...and dont risk it if you can t afford any headaches. As sad as it is we seem to be a priority right now more so than coke,heroin...so if you dont have $ to play or are extra safe dont enter game .

it does'nt matter if you sign or not. If they want you they will come and get you trust me. Signature or no signature. It doesnt really matter!! Regardless of what anyone says, if the pack is coming your way and it's a controlled delivery you are fucked with or without a sig. No ifs, ands, or buts about it!
Other then them doing a controlled delivery or you being under survelience or being investigate then either way signature required or no sig requires will not matter. However, when its your time to go down you will go down with or without sig.


Mr.Huge

 

[MikeS]

Huge you are mainly right. If they want your ass, they will get you.
If its a controlled delivery, and you take the pack from a cop you are screwed. If not you may have a chance. A eager judge may sign for a warrant BEFORE the controlled delivery taking place. Or they could put it in your mailbox/door and stalk out waiting for you to simply pick it up and bring it in. SO many ways. And there could be a gaping hole in their case where they did everything wrong, and offer you a plea-usually its a sweet deal compared to what can happen if you do not agree to plea. So you take the deal-they get their conviction. Or you could fight and face max penalty taking the chance-which your lawyer will advise you against. trust me from experience-so many ways they can get you if they want-legal means or not!

 

[G.E.R.M]

..

when i said do not sign i was also inferring that by not signing they would not give you posession of the pack..

therefore if you do not have posession,they cant really get you on that pack..

they might execute a search or pop you anyhow, but they cant say you took the pack..

 

[Mr Pickles]

i dont see how they can say you're guilty without signing or taking possession... that would mean the people that got blown up by the Unibomber were responsible for the packs that were sent to them

WTF??

i love my country, but i hate the government