Taper off long cycle?

[rafiki]

After a 20 week cycle of 500mg test E and 500 mg EQ, would you guys switch to prop and taper down?...or even switch to Prop so you stop abruptly with out the long taper of Enan? I will have used hcg throughout.

thanks

 

[CDJack]

Some people think tapering works, some dont. Google it. There's something called a "statis period" and then people taper down to very low doses...like 30mg per week

 

[EasyEJL]

part of the point of tapering is to allow your body to start producing naturally without going totally cold turkey and having no testosterone in your system. I'd think that dropping the test-e to 250 for one week, then 125 the next, then 60 the next (and probably repeat that) would be a reasonable taper. at 60mg your body will be able to start production again as that shouldnt be 100% suppressive.

another part of where the tapering came from was the early pros not having serms - remember that nolva didn't become popular until the last 10 years. So slowly tapering down helped avoid big hormone rebounds in any direction. And it seems that gyno can come as much from a rapid change of hormones as it does from sustained high estro levels.

 

[gordo14]

Just my opinion........

I feel that if you are introducing any synthetic test your body will not start reproducing on its own.

 

[rafiki]

I feel that if you are introducing any synthetic test your body will not start reproducing on its own.

agreed, i was under the impresion that once your own production was shut down during cycle, it would not come back till all exogeonous test was out of your system.

 

[EasyEJL]

Nope, your body doesn't care about endogenous or exogenous, it only cares about the circulating amount. If its higher than what it expects to be circulating, then it doesn't make any more. If its lower than what it expects (partially as well if its lower estrogen levels than it expects) then it will create natural testosterone too to try and make what it expects to see as its total test level.

 

[rafiki]

I'm running a-dex throughout, if i were to taper down my test would i continue the ai the same until completely off of test before switching to nolva, or would i taper down the ai also?

 

[EasyEJL]

I'd taper the AI too, depending on what you are dosing now. If you are doing .5mg EOD, then i'd probably leave it at that the 250 week, drop to E3D the 125 week, then E4D or E5D at that point. Keeping your estrogen low does signal your body for more test production, but of course you dont want to be too low.

 

[CDJack]

I agree with EASYEJL. You can research it, but there's a scheme that drops weekly dosage to 100mg/week for 6 weeks to "normalize", and then it tapers from there. I think the taper is around 6 weeks long, something like 80,80,60,60,40,20...i dunno you get the idea...i would assume a longer taper would be warranted by a longer cycle. I think our bodies do not think in these "black and white" terms of exo vs endo test. If test is lower, we will produce test, period. The idea of being 100% supressed or 0% supressed is not valid I think. So yea, I think a slow careful taper could definitely help. Also, I should note that most of the people doing the taper begin to use a serm during the taper...like when they drop to 80mg/week they start with an AI (aromasin) and a SERM and continue these for several weeks after the taper is finished.

There are also people who argue you can achieve a similar effect of beginning to recover while using other AAS that are mild in low doses, such as primo, eq, anavar, masteron, even dbol. The key is using the right dosages (LOW). Obviously you won't "fully recover" while still taking exogenous hormones, but it would make no sense that using a very low dose wouldn't allow you to begin to recover your HPTA so that your real PCT when you're fully off would be easier. I know people that have had success doing this with 200mg/wk of primo, around 30-40mg/day of anavar (tapered from 40 down to 20), 200mg/week of EQ, or even 15mg/day dbol. All of these could be tapered like test as well i would presume.

 

[rafiki]

so your saying drop to 100mgs for 6 weeks then taper for another 6 weeks, which would bring my total time on test to 32 weeks?

 

[CDJack]

Yes, but that isn't the right way to think about it. At 100mg/wk you are essentially on low end of HRT dose...so your system can normalize in the sense that it gets used to lower test. The next 6 weeks your test levels would be slowly dropping below normal levels and thus natural production should begin again. I'm not saying you will "recover" but it could very well make PCT go smoother. I dont know where people got the idea that you have to just drop it cold turkey. You should begin the serm during the taper. Look it up, there are studies that show low doses of test barely supress the HPTA. For example, 25mg/wk of test showed zero supression of LH and FSH in one study i read. Pseudoscientists think your body can tell the difference between your own test and exogenously introduced test--it can't. If you are injecting only 50mg/week, you will begin to produce your own test...etc. It's not as people say "you are just prolonging recovery". Doesn't work like that. Have you ever noticed doctors taper patients off of essentially every drug there is? If you really don't believe me I can find the studies for you that show HPTA and fertility responses to different doses of test.

so your saying drop to 100mgs for 6 weeks then taper for another 6 weeks, which would bring my total time on test to 32 weeks?

 

[Suffocation]

Yes, but that isn't the right way to think about it. At 100mg/wk you are essentially on low end of HRT dose...so your system can normalize in the sense that it gets used to lower test. The next 6 weeks your test levels would be slowly dropping below normal levels and thus natural production should begin again. I'm not saying you will "recover" but it could very well make PCT go smoother. I dont know where people got the idea that you have to just drop it cold turkey. You should begin the serm during the taper. Look it up, there are studies that show low doses of test barely supress the HPTA. For example, 25mg/wk of test showed zero supression of LH and FSH in one study i read. Pseudoscientists think your body can tell the difference between your own test and exogenously introduced test--it can't. If you are injecting only 50mg/week, you will begin to produce your own test...etc. It's not as people say "you are just prolonging recovery". Doesn't work like that. Have you ever noticed doctors taper patients off of essentially every drug there is? If you really don't believe me I can find the studies for you that show HPTA and fertility responses to different doses of test.

Interesting.... thanks for the thread...

 

[617ricky]

Switching to Prop after a long cycle of Test E is viewed as a good idea, and that's what I'll be doing.. You wanna do the Prop for about 2 wks, so you'll be able to start PCT just a few days after your last shot.. This give Test E the 2 wks to clear from the system.. My cycle is gonna be 16 wks, and for the first 14 I'll be doing roughly 550mg Test E and 450mg Deca.. But the last 2 wks is gonna be only Prop, at a dosage of like 300mg.. So it will also be a little bit of a taper, making the transition into PCT hopefully easier..

 

[CDJack]

300mg per wk is not enough of a taper to do anything for you IMHO. That will keep you fully shut down, especially for only 2 weeks.

 

[617ricky]

What do you mean "that will keep you fully shut down" - are you saying afterwards? I'll be running low-dose hcg during the cycle, and aromasin/clomid for my PCT.. So the little taper is just to slowly decrease my Test levels, for a less abrupt transition into PCT where the Test levels come back down to reality.. I may even do like 350mg 1st wk / 250mg 2nd wk.. Whether or not it accomplishes anything, either way not a big deal.. But on paper, it just appears to be a sensible idea, to try and gradually bring the hormone levels down, instead of just a cliff drop going from 500mg to baseline..

 

[CDJack]

What I mean is, your taper doesn't allow any recovery during it. Yes you will drop down slower, but to get actual recovery while still on you would need to go much much lower in your weekly dose. That's all i'm saying. Not until you go below 100mg/wk will you being to recover at all...before that you will just be, as you said, getting used to normal physiologial levels, which MAY help, i agree. But you can do better...that's all i'm saying.