Test Esters noticeable differences for you?

[romo]

No this is a recent thing and comes from a guy who orders and tests very large quantities multiple times per year.

I should note I have never experienced pip from test e at anything dosed at 300mg/ml or less. I have injected 3ml test e in 1 go years back and felt no pip. I don't get any pip from test e or test c. Test P used to cripple me every time I tried it until I used Geno's many years ago and it still had a sting to it but I could atleast use it. Amongst other things it's what really stood out to me about Geno because prior to that I had used multiple sources and PIP was something I thought come with using AAS but I learnt that wasn't the case. It's not like I am injecting huge amounts of short esters (the complete opposite) but I haven't experienced PIP for many years.

Well there you go,,interesting, i never test anything lol. And also i never really get pip either especially from test e or c so i wouldn't be a good judge on that part of quality. I do know though after i brewed this test e im talking about, i started doing 250mg a week and bloodwork after 7 weeks had my t levels at 1675.

 

[Elvia1023]

I’d be VERY interested to see where this guy has been purchasing these underdosed raws from and where he’s getting them tested.
I’ve dealt with several commercial brewers over the last 6 years or so who’ve found the complete opposite.

I didn't write underdosed. They are still above the pharm grade "limit" but they are lower purity. You mentioned you know Jano so I would ask him if you are interested as he tests things daily.

 

[Blueballs]

I didn't write underdosed. They are still above the pharm grade "limit" but they are lower purity. You mentioned you know Jano so I would ask him if you are interested as he tests things daily.

You said ‘purity’. So if you’re not saying they’re ‘underdosed’, what do you mean EXACTLY?
Where did I say ‘I know jano’!!??? The only thing I know about jano is that he’s based in E Europe and that he receives a fair amount of negative criticism.

 

[Blueballs]

Well there you go,,interesting, i never test anything lol. And also i never really get pip either especially from test e or c so i wouldn't be a good judge on that part of quality. I do know though after i brewed this test e im talking about, i started doing 250mg a week and bloodwork after 7 weeks had my t levels at 1675.

I recently ran a popular uk ugl’s sustanon b2b with Bulgarian Omnas and indian Leeford test blend. Both of which are basically sustanon. I noticed ZERO difference between all three so I’ve got every confidence in Chinese raws.

 

[Elvia1023]

You said ‘purity’. So if you’re not saying they’re ‘underdosed’, what do you mean EXACTLY?
Where did I say ‘I know jano’!!??? The only thing I know about jano is that he’s based in E Europe and that he receives a fair amount of negative criticism.

I misread your post. I thought you meant you had sent in products to be tested by him so you had a line of communication with him in the past. Now I see you were just referring to general testing done by him on a product you used. Regarding the test e I just meant raws are being tested now and they are a little lower in purity but they are not what I would call "underdosed". Yes they are underdosed but by a few % but when people refer to underdosed test they are usually thinking something like 40-85% I am talking more 90-95% so it's still gtg but the general quality has worsened. Now a supplier could have it tested and it's 90% so they add an extra 10% to the mix and their product is dosed correctly but I would recommend impurity (heavy metal) testing as well. It's also coming with more PIP and that could just be because of what you posted earlier or it might be something else (I don't know).

 

[Blueballs]

I misread your post. I thought you meant you had sent in products to be tested by him so you had a line of communication with him in the past. Now I see you were just referring to general testing done by him on a product you used. Regarding the test e I just meant raws are being tested now and they are a little lower in purity but they are not what I would call "underdosed". Yes they are underdosed but by a few % but when people refer to underdosed test they are usually thinking something like 40-85% I am talking more 90-95% so it's still gtg but the general quality has worsened. Now a supplier could have it tested and it's 90% so they add an extra 10% to the mix and their product is dosed correctly but I would recommend impurity (heavy metal) testing as well. It's also coming with more PIP and that could just be because of what you posted earlier or it might be something else (I don't know).

I’ve had nothing tested by Jano. What I did say was that I’ve known several commercial brewers who have had raws and finished product tested by him and they’ve been close to 100%. They fall well within pharma standard.
Ugl prop in recent years is pretty much pip-free. Test E was never an issue but as laws surrounding production have tightened in china corners are being cut which have lead to some batches being pippy.

 

[buck]

Once the ester is cleaved away there can really be no difference as the same molecule is left. The slight difference in how fast it becomes active would seem to be the mostly reason for noticing anything. And how much of the enzyme a person has that cleaves away the ester will vary.

 

[KillerStack]

@Big Dave Smith has covered it in another thread on the ester in Test E causing PIP. I don’t want to misquote him so tagging him.

But I avoid prop and enthate. Once you find what works and doesn’t leave PIP you just run with it.

Just because I’m curious now- are you saying you shot 6ml of Test all at once in the same spot- or is that in a week? I won’t go over 3ml in any spot regardless of compound.

Same spot all at once. I've done it a bunch of times and I don't have extremely big glutes either. Actually 5ml in the quad too and I have small quads. Delts 4.5ml. I never pushed it higher than that, because at some point you will fuck up right lol. Just a guess but I think the glutes for me could probably take 10ml no problem. The Nebido amps are 4ml so at least that should be problem free for most. There might be someone here who has pushed high volumes?

I think Dave said he heard the pain was from some "acid," so the same.

 

[KillerStack]

@KillerStack it is very possible to make pain free high dosed test but for most it's going to come with some PIP. In fact I would say you are asking for PIP ordering it and I always advise people to get 200-300mg/ml.

Geno does a 500mg/ml test e product (all test e). It's been tested and is gtg (all the same ester). He stopped doing it because of all the complaints about PIP. But no surprises what happened when he got felt up of all the complaints/hassle and took it off the list... many people asked again and again for him to bring it back. He eventually brought it back and more of the same and why I always advise people to get 1 vial to try before stocking up. Although there are many who experience no PIP from it, just as many who experience some PIP and the rest can't use it because it's plain hurts them.

I remembered seeing this stuff years ago, look at this blend lol. No idea if all that was in there. Never tried it.

 

[Blueballs]

I remembered seeing this stuff years ago, look at this blend lol. No idea if all that was in there. Never tried it.

13 different compounds/esters. I smell BS….along with large volumes of BA and BB!

 

[bbxtreme]

Same spot all at once. I've done it a bunch of times and I don't have extremely big glutes either. Actually 5ml in the quad too and I have small quads. Delts 4.5ml. I never pushed it higher than that, because at some point you will fuck up right lol. Just a guess but I think the glutes for me could probably take 10ml no problem. The Nebido amps are 4ml so at least that should be problem free for most. There might be someone here who has pushed high volumes?

I think Dave said he heard the pain was from some "acid," so the same.

You my friend are a champ. If I ever put that much oil in my glute I’d be limping. I tried 4.5ml one time and regretted it for days.

 

[Testosteroni]

I have heard that a lot of the test e coming out of China is lower purity these days. This has been confirmed with testing as well. As a result it's causing more PIP from injections so it's something to look out for.

For me over the years I have experienced noticeable difference between esters so it's 100% not simply test is test and tren is tren etc. Now the longer esters are very similar and the shorter esters are very similar but for me there is often a noticeable difference between longer and shorter esters. This difference could include anything from pip, results and side effects.

Do you notice difference in water retention?

 

[Isovet]

there has been lower grade enanthate coming from china for the past 2 years which does give pip to alot of people including myself at 300mgs or higher... if all is on the up and up then there should be no discernble difference in enanthate and cypionate except the supposed " kick" people seem to get from cyp... again that is just user reported speculation not actually reported tested evidence... ive used both for 25 yers and never seen much of a difference from either... ill throw isocaprote and decanoate in there too.... about the same. now undecanote... yes. i have used that on its own and it did take longer to kick in much like the laurate ester in nandralone....

 

[Steve123]

All anecdotal, but I do think there is something in the individual metabolism of esters.

When I first started in 1989, all my test came in shrink-wrapped cases from the pharmacy and it was all Upjohn Cypionate. Blew me up, watery, but I felt every milligram. The Upjohn went away and was replaced by Steris Enanthate. I didn't feel that nearly as much. Both totally legit pharmacy sources, I used and sold a lot of it and there was no doubt to the authenticity.

I never really used propionate.

To this day I feel enanthate less, than cypionate, but cypionate seems harder to get.
The same seems to be true for me with tren enanthate vs hex.

There can be a difference. I was originally prescribed West Ward Enanthate and my numbers kept coming back low. My doc switched it to cypionate and the numbers shot right up. I asked the pharmacist and she told me some people react differently to different esters. I never got any real solid, scientific answer on this and just satisfied myself with the good outcome.

 

[Mufasa123]

On Test E you guys might find this interesting...firstly I'd never ever gotten PIP on US Pharma Test E or C nor UGL E or C.

I think around late 2018 is when batches of Test E with high PIP started coming in from China. Affected brewers and UGLs. Some people were also complaining that they brewed half their Test E raws with no issue and a year later brewed the rest and got big PIP.

I had brewed a decent supply of Test E procured just before this. 250mg/ml totally PIPless and was thrilled to have dodged all the fuckery. All brewed at once and single batch. Split with a buddy of mine. Have been using it for years with no discernible difference nor degradation on serum test results for bloods.

In the past year this batch, in solution and bottled the entire time, has gotten to have a bit of PIP to it. Same for my friend's batch as he was the first to point it out. This includes a larger storage media bottle as well as 10ml bottles that have been sitting and sealed separately (yeah all properly stored) for years now. Same pip in every segregate bottle small/large for both of us.

Now I'm almost done so not really sweating it and fine with moving to Test C but I thought this was really odd. I've used plenty of old Test before and other products well beyond 5 years but never had it "change". And only test E as well from a previously PIP free batch. I'd note Deca and Mast and Tren from same time, similar storage, carrier/ba/bb batches and %, and bottling, all totally fine.

Weird.

 

[Elvia1023]

Do you notice difference in water retention?

Not really. It can be a complex subject because everyone is different and some can respond very differently to esters and carrier oils. Now for me personally the difference is minimal between esters in most regards apart from PIP. I get guys asking me things like should they use test p for cutting and test c for bulking (water retention) and that thinking is wrong but at the same time esters can be a big factor for some. Generally speaking your diet and training dictate your goals and water retention and it doesn't matter what ester you use but it could do in some cases. I don't want to overcomplicate something that should be basic for 95% of people but yes if someone wants to be extremely lean then esters and injection frequency and compounds used can be very important for optimal results.

Now in regards to me I will say in the last 5 years I have "cut" and "bulked" multiple times and I would estimate my test usage has been approx 60% test e, 30% test c and 10% sust. I don't recall using test p for many years but I mighT rotate it in this year just for a change. So for most people I wouldn't worry about esters and would just go with something you respond well to that you don't have to inject all the time (e, c or sust).

 

[LK3]

@Big Dave Smith has covered it in another thread on the ester in Test E causing PIP. I don’t want to misquote him so tagging him.

But I avoid prop and enthate. Once you find what works and doesn’t leave PIP you just run with it.

Just because I’m curious now- are you saying you shot 6ml of Test all at once in the same spot- or is that in a week? I won’t go over 3ml in any spot regardless of compound.

the te issue seems more like a new thing bud, te used to not be an issue. dik what has happened in the recent past but i had a batch that was also crippling/unusable.

the total mg/ml could be an issue for some but you can easily do a blended t with normal solvents and normal ratios ( ba/bb and not mroe then 20% total ) if you put the te into oil alone then add the rest to the solvents.

personally i like 100mg/ml gear but the other is doable if you know.