Theoretical question for experts/pros

[OMNIBUS]

Do you feel there is a limit as to when anymore androgen is just a waste and cannot possibly add anymore anabolic benefit?
I hear stories of pros shooting 10 grams or even 15 grams a week and have to wonder(if it's even true)if it is really doing anything positive as far as muscle growth.
What is the highest dosage you know for sure someone has used and what were the results?

 

[LATS]

alot of people spectulate but, no one really knows what the pros take. as far as how many grams of androgens one can take in a do any good is hard to answer. many top competitors can take in many grams because their body can tolerate it. i know that most people could not tolerate a lot of androgens before the sides would be to unbearable. it really is a individual thing. i remember talking to a english pro who swore that he could not take in many androgens because he suffered from too many sides. he was about 70/30 in favor of anabolics. that being said, he probably will never be a serious threat in most pro comps. the one who can tolerate the most androgens will have a very distinct advantage.

 

[LATS]

oops, i almost forgot. the only one that i know for a fact was around 4 grams total androgens. i have since lost the e mail he gave me but, from memory that was it. but, he would not lie.

 

[w8's]

4grams huh. sounds like fun!

 

[OMNIBUS]

Actually Bill Roberts says 4 grams is pretty much the limit when additional steroids no longer add anything positive.He says at that point you get 98% receptor saturation which is as high as you can get.

 

[Jimbo]

There way a thread on the UG about how much have peole taken. If you guys know RY Roid, hes one of the biggest dudes around

Here was his post

-5000mgs Sust -1,500mgs Deca -1,500mgs Enan -150mg Susp ED -400mg Drol -200mg WinV -80iu's Slin per day split into 3 shots -20iu's GH Mon-

 

[w8's]

if thats per week.

i change my previous post.

cause that sounds like some fun. damm!!!

 

[PHIL HERNON]

COMMON SENSE

IF ANYONE HAS TO TAKE THAT MUCH STUFF, THEY ARE IN THE WRONG SPORT. I MEAN, BE REALISTIC, 5 GRAMS PER WEEK??? HHHAHAHAHAHAH GUYS THAT HAVE TO DO THAT SHOULD BE 350 POUNDS!!!! IF NOT, IT IS JUST THE WRONG SPORT FOR YOU. YOU WANT TO MORTGAGE YOUR FUTURE FOR A FEW YEARS ON ALL OF THAT STUFF?? BELIEVE ME, DORIAN, FLEX, CORMIER, PRIEST, THEY COME NO WHERE NEAR ANY OF THESE NUMBERS THROWN AROUND ON THIS SITE, THEY JUST HAVE "IT", WHERE OTHERS NEED 5, 10, 15 GRAMS PER WEEK JUST TO DO TOP 5 AT THE JR NATIONALS. IF YOU DONT HAVE THE GENETICS, STICKING YOURSELF WITH 5,10,15 GRAMS PER WEEK AND WALKING AROUND THE GYM COVERED UP BECAUSE YOU KNOW THAT YOU REALY CANT COMPETE ON A HIGH LEVEL, SHOULD SERIOUSLY BE THOUGHT OUT, FOR YOUR OWN HEALTH AT LEAST.

 

[LATS]

i remember on one of the boards a few years back a regular member posted his pics. he actually had a very average build. not very big at all. he then posted his cycle. i can only tell ya i was shocked at the amount this guy took...and how average his build was. he had been lifting for quit a few years and it was not exactly his first cycle. i also rememer thinking that i have many guys in the gym i own that have better builds then he and they are actually natural. i also remember thinking that for his own health and safety he needed to give it up. he would never have a awesome build. nothing wrong with that bur, i would hope he could have seen that on his own. why not just cut the gear in half and just be happy lifting and enjoy yourself. in other words, know your limits.

 

[stevehnsn]

why not just cut the gear in half and just be happy lifting and enjoy yourself. in other words, know your limits.

Lats, I respect you for your knowledge and status on the board, but I have to say just this one thing: there ARE no limits. Ok, maybe there are, but some of us are just not willing to except this. I'll never be a pro, in fact I'll probably never even win a national competition, but ever since I started lifting I had one goal: to look like Arnold in his prime. Even after all I have learned since then, I am still inspired by my teenage hero, and I will not give up until I feel I've met my goal. That said, it looks like I'm definitely going to be training for the rest of my life, haha.

 

[LATS]

i respect what you are saying but, i have read your posts in the past and know that you are a intelligent person. that being said, i do not think you would seriously endanger yourlife to look like arnold in his prime. after re reading my last post let me clearify something. i would never tellsomeone to stop taking the workouts to the limits , just stop taking the drugs to the limits. over the years i have always wondered how far i would push it. i found out, not very far .lol i could compete national level if i put all my effort into it. i have decent genetics. but, i realize i have a business to run and kids to raise and sometimes the workouts suffer. so, my limitations, are my lifestyle not my genetics. but, limitations nonetheless.
my only concern is for the fellow "bros" on the boards and their safety. to play hardball with the drugs and getting very little in return is just silly. i always believe in the warrior mentality. to push your workouts and to eat hardcore ect. but, i will say it again, there are limitations with everybody. when i see a guy putting 3 grams of androgens in his system year in and year out and looking ...well..average. it is time for that person to take stock and ask himself if his health is worth it. if he comes to that conclusion that it is worth it then so be it. i would not stand in his way. i , to an extent, admire his resolve. like william anderson said "i glory in his resolve but, damn his judgement" lol so push the limits. take it to the limit but, take time to re evaluate sometimes . thats all. so , stevehnsn, go for your goals. i truly would love to see ya reach them. take the workouts to the limit eat like a bull elephant. but, above all, i hope ya stay healthy. keep pumpin'

 

[PHIL HERNON]

LATS

THAT IS GREAT ADVICE, THANK YOU FOR SAYING THAT.

 

[Johnny Bravo]

I agree with LATS, and PHIL H.

It gets to the point where you have to weight he health risks. I have pretty good gentetics (IMO) and have to take very little, and I stand out in most gyms. People like Phil, Big A, and other pros DONT have to take outrageous dosages to achieve there look. People at most of the gyms I have work out at think I'm some wacked out anabloic freak. Its just because there in there working out with poor genetics and think that every bodybuilder in the world MUST be juiced out of there mind in order to look like that. If everyones genetic makeup were identical then they would have a point, but its not that way. Some of us are blessed more than others (thanks mom ) The fact that your in the gym working out is good enough to earn my respect, no matter what you look like.

 

[xcelbeyond]

This thread has ended up having a LOT of good info - thanks Lats!

I'm blessed with poor genetics - very small frame, which can work to my advantage. Any amount of muscle makes me "appear" large. Because of my poor genetic pre-disposal, I PUSH THE LIMITS on everything - diet, workouts "and" supplementation. It's a good reminder to make sure that I keep the latter in check with results I'm achieving though.

xcel

 

[stevehnsn]

Good thread, with some intelligent posts.

I can definitely agree with there being a limit to androgen use. If you're regularly using 3+ grams weekly, for months on end, even if you make astounding gains, you're sure to lose a good percentage when off. To me that's really not worth it. Why waste money trying to push your body with heavy doses of drugs, possibly at the expense of familly and friends, when you could be doing "healthy" cycles, and making small but permanent improvements over time?

 

[BIGKIWI]

The best advice I recieved from NASSER was " stay healthy " ever since then I have had that at back my mind helping me on my BB journey.

take care

kiwi

 

[w8's]

good advice guys, i had recently recived advice from a top level national competitor from years ago who told be to basically

"take as much drugs as you can afford in the offseason if you want to get good. " this included doses and ammounts that threw me for a loop. 3 bottles of this a week with this and this an this gh slin etc. etc. etc.

but listening to ths post made me think.

just saying thanks.

 

[Paul Bunyan]

I've been to the 3g/wk mark and all it did was make me feel like shit. For several months now I've kept my doses to 400-500mg/wk and I still hover around 315lbs. I get stronger every week and I feel great. No more high dose shit for me, looks like I don't need it after all. Wish I had all of the money back that I pissed away, lol.

PB

 

[Sandblaster]

And I second...

what PB said above. I learned from him to keep my dosages lower and have not suffered in gains a bit. All of the sides are now gone and I get stronger week to week. I feel SO MUCH BETTER!

But, I think it is only fair to mention. PB and I are powerlifters and we have different goals than most: strength and recuperation first and foremost, and the other things like size second...

SB

 

[slide]

i respect what you are saying but, i have read your posts in the past and know that you are a intelligent person. that being said, i do not think you would seriously endanger yourlife to look like arnold in his prime. after re reading my last post let me clearify something. i would never tellsomeone to stop taking the workouts to the limits , just stop taking the drugs to the limits. over the years i have always wondered how far i would push it. i found out, not very far .lol i could compete national level if i put all my effort into it. i have decent genetics. but, i realize i have a business to run and kids to raise and sometimes the workouts suffer. so, my limitations, are my lifestyle not my genetics. but, limitations nonetheless.
my only concern is for the fellow "bros" on the boards and their safety. to play hardball with the drugs and getting very little in return is just silly. i always believe in the warrior mentality. to push your workouts and to eat hardcore ect. but, i will say it again, there are limitations with everybody. when i see a guy putting 3 grams of androgens in his system year in and year out and looking ...well..average. it is time for that person to take stock and ask himself if his health is worth it. if he comes to that conclusion that it is worth it then so be it. i would not stand in his way. i , to an extent, admire his resolve. like william anderson said "i glory in his resolve but, damn his judgement" lol so push the limits. take it to the limit but, take time to re evaluate sometimes . thats all. so , stevehnsn, go for your goals. i truly would love to see ya reach them. take the workouts to the limit eat like a bull elephant. but, above all, i hope ya stay healthy. keep pumpin'

Lats,

I just wanted to say thanks for this post and the other(s) on this board (which is not to not thank you for your other posts ) Push yourself to the limit, but like you and others said, for God's sake, stay healthy. It's think it's great that I've been fortunate to surround myself with group of bros and bras that want to help people and actually see them attain their goals vice some jack-asses telling you (us) to fill yourself full of holes and sauce. Thanks again..To All!

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